INFO-VAX Wed, 16 Feb 2005 Volume 2005 : Issue 94 Contents: Announcing the latest issue of the OpenVMS Technical Journal. Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance Re: Does anyone know of an object compatible (non static) way of setting timeou Re: Does anyone know of an object compatible (non static) way of setting timeou Does anyone know of an object compatible (non static) way of setting timeouts on Re: Does anyone know of an object compatible (non static) way of setting timeout Re: Does anyone know of an object compatible (non static) way of setting timeout DS700 BOOTP Re: DS700 BOOTP Graphics routines (GDCHART, etc.) with OpenVMS PERL, CSWS mod_perl Re: Graphics routines (GDCHART, etc.) with OpenVMS PERL, CSWS mod_perl Re: Graphics routines (GDCHART, etc.) with OpenVMS PERL, CSWS mod_perl Re: Graphics routines (GDCHART, etc.) with OpenVMS PERL, CSWS mod_perl Re: Graphics routines (GDCHART, etc.) with OpenVMS PERL, CSWS mod_perl Re: Graphics routines (GDCHART, etc.) with OpenVMS PERL, CSWS mod_perl Re: Graphics routines (GDCHART, etc.) with OpenVMS PERL, CSWS mod_perl Re: Graphics routines (GDCHART, etc.) with OpenVMS PERL, CSWS mod_perl Re: grep on openVMS? Re: grep on openVMS? Re: grep on openVMS? Re: Guy Peleg: More wish list items Re: Guy Peleg: More wish list items Re: I'd heard about this a while back... Re: IBM Linux and Universities Re: IBM's 'Chiphopper' Re: IBM's 'Chiphopper' Re: IBM's 'Chiphopper' Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP Re: NFS mounts to Solaris Server Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution Oracle LGWR process does continuous direct I/O's RE: Oracle LGWR process does continuous direct I/O's Re: OT: Where do you get your News feed? Re: OT: Where do you get your News feed? Re: OT: Where do you get your News feed? Re: OT: Where do you get your News feed? Re: OT: Where do you get your News feed? Re: Queue Length on shadow disk read monitor (>>>) variables from OpenVMS ? Re: read monitor (>>>) variables from OpenVMS ? Re: read monitor (>>>) variables from OpenVMS ? Re: read monitor (>>>) variables from OpenVMS ? Re: read monitor (>>>) variables from OpenVMS ? Re: read monitor (>>>) variables from OpenVMS ? Re: read monitor (>>>) variables from OpenVMS ? Re: read monitor (>>>) variables from OpenVMS ? Re: read monitor (>>>) variables from OpenVMS ? Re: read monitor (>>>) variables from OpenVMS ? Re: rx5670 for $2K Re: rx5670 for $2K Re: rx5670 for $2K Re: Speed of light as speed limit (was Re: DECW$CLOCK design flaw !) Re: Speed of light as speed limit (was Re: DECW$CLOCK design flaw !) Re: Speed of light as speed limit (was Re: DECW$CLOCK design flaw !) Re: Speed of light as speed limit (was Re: DECW$CLOCK design flaw !) Re: Superfluous Responses WAS Re: DCL command to show number of interactive use Re: Superfluous Responses WAS Re: DCL command to show number of TCPIP automatic route additions Thoughts about VMS ECOs now in .PCSI$COMPRESSED form Re: Thoughts about VMS ECOs now in .PCSI$COMPRESSED form Re: VMS Group purchase process? Re: VMS Group purchase process? Re: Where do you get your News feed? [ANN] Data Plotting Library DISLIN 8.3 Re: [OT] Speed of light as speed limit (was Re: DECW$CLOCK design flaw Re: [OT] Speed of light as speed limit (was Re: DECW$CLOCK design flaw [OT] Speed of light as speed limit (was Re: DECW$CLOCK design flaw !) Re: [OT] Speed of light as speed limit (was Re: DECW$CLOCK design flaw !) Re: [OT] Speed of light as speed limit (was Re: DECW$CLOCK design flaw !) !)!) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 16 Feb 2005 10:41:15 -0800 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com Subject: Announcing the latest issue of the OpenVMS Technical Journal. Message-ID: <1108579275.515780.49340@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Dear Distribution lists, It is my pleasure to announce the latest issue of the OpenVMS Technical Journal. First, I would like to apologize for the delay; however we were otherwise occupied in getting OpenVMS Version 8.2 out. Please visit the Web site at: "http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/journal/index.html" Once again, we have a number of excellent articles. To highlight just a few, let me start by pointing out "A Survey of Cluster Technologies" by Ken Moreau. You will find this an in-depth and very well researched article. "Porting the Macro-32 Compiler to OpenVMS I64" by John Reagan gives you a firsthand look at what changed and what stayed the same from an engineer on the compiler team. "Are you Certifiable?" What an interesting question and name for an article! Certification is a big thing in the IT industry these days, and OpenVMS does have certification available. This article was written by John Gillings, who was part of the team that developed some of the certification tests. "Delivering Web Access to OpenVMS" by Tom Bice describes how Southeastern Freight Lines migrated its All-in-1 application to Verastream and added a graphical user interface. This migration preserved all their valuable data, enabled them to keep their OpenVMS systems on which they rely for zero down-time, enhanced customer service, and reduced IT costs. There are four more excellent articles in this issue as well. As always, I would like to thank all the Authors. As you can see from the bio page, we have an impressive group of Engineers, Ambassadors, and Partners. Key to the publication of this journal is the documentation team that works with the Authors. For this issue, they were Carolyn Crowell, Suzy Kane, Mary Marotta, Sarah Masella, Joseph McMullen, Phil Milgrom, Pat Nelson, and Merle Roesler. Of course, without the core team of Warren Sander, the web master, and Mary Marotta, this project would not be possible at all. I owe them a huge dept of gratitude. Thank you all very much. I hope you enjoy this issue of the OpenVMS Technical Journal. Warm Regards, Sue Skonetski Editor ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:29:42 GMT From: Keith Parris Subject: Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance Message-ID: JF Mezei wrote: > Or you can have one node with 2 votes and one with 1. > > 50% of chances that failure will result in uninterrupted service. (i.e. > if the earthquake ont strikes the side with the 1 vote node. And if the > 2 vote node goes down, you can just reboot the other node into SYSBOOT> > change its votes to 3 and then continue the boot. The problem with this approach is that it arbitrarily predetermines which of the two sites will continue on any failure that affects inter-site connectivity, even if that failure might adversely affect the site with more votes. If the "wrong" site continues automatically, transactions it subsequently processes can end up being lost, in a scenario known by the name of "Creeping Doom". See my presentations on disaster tolerance at http://www2.openvms.org/kparris/ for more details. For this reason, I recommend that balanced votes be used in 2-site VMS DT clusters. > I think that on VAXes, you can type at the console to get a > chance at readjusting quorum on a node that is currently hung due to > loss of quorum. Does this work on Alphas as well ? It is possible to do this on Alpha systems (it's documented in the HP OpenVMS System Manager's Manual, Volume 1: Essentials --> Managing Storage Media --> Using Interrupt Priority Level C (IPC), at http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/732FINAL/aa-pv5mh-tk/aa-pv5mh-tk.HTMl -- the command is >>> D SIRR C to deposit a value of 12 (decimal), for IPL 12, into the Software Interrupt Register, and then IPC> Q to adjust quorum), but due to some timeouts, it never worked reliably in SMP systems, so coming in through RMDRIVER (using Availability Manager, DECamds, or DTCS) to initiate the quorum adjustment is the approach most favored today. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:12:38 -0500 From: "John Smith" Subject: Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance Message-ID: Paul Sture wrote: > prep@prep.synonet.com wrote: > >> >> You need a link for the SAN, and a link for the cluster coms. Pulling >> 20 fibres costs almost no more that one. Having redundant likes that >> go via *TOTALLY* different routes is a VERY good idea. Also going >> for a 3 way config is easier. >> > > And bundling spare cables into the installation provides for future > expansion at little cost. > > You should also plan cable routes to avoid hazardous areas (e.g. fire > risks asscociated with kitchens, fuel lines etc). Fork lift trucks can > also be dangerous; at one place I worked a fork lift had apparently > crashed into a wall and taken a load of cabling out as a result. That's why you have a minimum of two of everything routed via different routes: -two fiber runs down one side of the plant in conduit, one run above ground, another below ground - an identical matching pair down the other side of the plant One diesel generator to power one computer room, the other room powered by a natural gas generator - as a backup against fuel contamination. And big thick firewalls (for real fires) around the computer rooms seeing as they are inside a plant that probably doesn't have much in the way of fire suppression. The quorum system could be in your basement at home, or in a closet in a sales office in a building on another part of the site, or just rent a rack slot from an ISP in a telcom NAP (they have fire suppression and backup power) for a couple hundred per month. -- OpenVMS - The classics never go out of style. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 10:35:24 -0000 From: "Robin" Subject: Re: Does anyone know of an object compatible (non static) way of setting timeou Message-ID: "JF Mezei" wrote in message news:1108548484.abe589f52df60f12576ddf1d2334787d@teranews... > Robin wrote: > > timeouts within VMS. Both the system command 'sys$setimr()' and the X > > toolkit command 'XtAppAddTimeOut()' call static functions on completion > > rendering my object code useless. (There will be multiple instances of the > > object but only one of the timeout routine!) > > http://www.xfree86.org/4.3.0/XtAppAddTimeout.3.html > > XtAppAddTimeout allows you to provide user data as argument to the > routine that gets called at the time the timer expires. You pass a > pointer to your object structure as parameter. > Thanks. Robin ------. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:08:18 -0000 From: "Robin" Subject: Re: Does anyone know of an object compatible (non static) way of setting timeou Message-ID: "JF Mezei" wrote in message news:1108548484.abe589f52df60f12576ddf1d2334787d@teranews... > Robin wrote: > > timeouts within VMS. Both the system command 'sys$setimr()' and the X > > toolkit command 'XtAppAddTimeOut()' call static functions on completion > > rendering my object code useless. (There will be multiple instances of the > > object but only one of the timeout routine!) > > http://www.xfree86.org/4.3.0/XtAppAddTimeout.3.html > > XtAppAddTimeout allows you to provide user data as argument to the > routine that gets called at the time the timer expires. You pass a > pointer to your object structure as parameter. > > Hi, I ended up passing 'this' in as the data argument, and accessing all that I needed through that. Many thanks, I could have been casting around for a while. Robin ------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:43:57 -0000 From: "Robin" Subject: Does anyone know of an object compatible (non static) way of setting timeouts on Message-ID: Hi all, I hope someone can help. I need a way of setting object compatible timeouts within VMS. Both the system command 'sys$setimr()' and the X toolkit command 'XtAppAddTimeOut()' call static functions on completion rendering my object code useless. (There will be multiple instances of the object but only one of the timeout routine!) If anyone knows any other way of achieving this I would be grateful. Many thanks Robin ------ ------------------------------ Date: 16 Feb 2005 10:42:26 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Does anyone know of an object compatible (non static) way of setting timeout Message-ID: <9kg$pgK$caLa@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article , "Robin" writes: > Hi all, > > I hope someone can help. I need a way of setting object compatible > timeouts within VMS. Both the system command 'sys$setimr()' and the X > toolkit command 'XtAppAddTimeOut()' call static functions on completion > rendering my object code useless. (There will be multiple instances of the > object but only one of the timeout routine!) > > If anyone knows any other way of achieving this I would be grateful. The general way of telling things apart in the AST called by $SETIMR is by the request id, which is basically an argument passed to the AST that you can use as you wish. You need to map the request id to the specific object instance. For example, in Java you could use Object.hash() (inheritted by all objects) as a unique request id. There should be something similar in C++, perhaps &object. There should then be a hook to allow your static routine to access object instance specific data and functions, but you may have to make sure you write them in an AST reentrant manner. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 05:20:38 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Does anyone know of an object compatible (non static) way of setting timeout Message-ID: <1108548484.abe589f52df60f12576ddf1d2334787d@teranews> Robin wrote: > timeouts within VMS. Both the system command 'sys$setimr()' and the X > toolkit command 'XtAppAddTimeOut()' call static functions on completion > rendering my object code useless. (There will be multiple instances of the > object but only one of the timeout routine!) http://www.xfree86.org/4.3.0/XtAppAddTimeout.3.html XtAppAddTimeout allows you to provide user data as argument to the routine that gets called at the time the timer expires. You pass a pointer to your object structure as parameter. $help system $setimr For sys$setimr, you can specify an address in the "reqid" parameter, and this is passed as a parameter to the AST routine that is called when the timer expires. So again, provide the address of your object block, and then the AST routine gets this as parameter and can then play with it as it wishes. ------------------------------ Date: 15 Feb 2005 22:52:17 -0800 From: dieter.rossbach@gmx.de (dieter rossbach) Subject: DS700 BOOTP Message-ID: I have to change the download for some decserver 700 from mop to DHCP/BOOTP due to changes of the network infrastructure. The VMS system runs with tcpip 5.4 ECO 4 DHCPCAP.; contains the following entry: ds700:\ ::\ :ht=Ethernet:\ :ha=08-00-2B-XX-XX-XX:\ :bf=/mom$system/wweng2.sys:\ :dn=my.domain.com:\ :ip=10.0.1.123:\ :sm=255.255.255.0:\ :ds=10.0.1.4:\ :sa=10.0.1.2:\ :ho=ds7001: ----------- TCPIP$DHCP_RUN.LOG says BOOTP packet from HW 08:00:2b:xx:xx:xx configured with IP 10.0.1.123 1108461925.556038 Packet arrived on Tuesday February 15 11:05:25 but no download of the image happens. The image is at the right place and world readable: $ dir mom$system: Directory SYS$SYSROOT:[MOM$SYSTEM] MNENG1.SYS;1 1152 2-SEP-1992 10:36:30.44 WWENG1.SYS;1 1156 12-FEB-2005 16:34:42.64 WWENG2.SYS;1 2023 12-FEB-2005 16:34:43.95 WWENG2T.SYS;1 3215 12-FEB-2005 16:34:45.95 I tried :bf=mom$system:wweng2.sys :bf=sys$sysroot:[mom$system]wweng2.sys with the same results. The TCPIP documentation on the bf parameter is short and simple: bf=mybootfile: So, where is the problem? Any ideas? Regards Dieter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 02:30:28 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: DS700 BOOTP Message-ID: <1108538290.4ad89d7f45d404855fbdc8d48e44b9e9@teranews> dieter rossbach wrote: > BOOTP packet from HW 08:00:2b:xx:xx:xx configured with IP 10.0.1.123 > 1108461925.556038 Packet arrived on Tuesday February 15 11:05:25 > > but no download of the image happens. BOOTP/DHCP are just config information providers. The device would normally then use the BOOTP reply information to generate a TFTP request for the actual software. I believe that the "sa" tag refers to the Boot File Server address, and hence, your device will send a TFTP request to that host, specifying th eboot file specification. Do you have TFTP enabled/configured ? ------------------------------ Date: 15 Feb 2005 23:57:36 -0800 From: mcbill20@yahoo.com Subject: Graphics routines (GDCHART, etc.) with OpenVMS PERL, CSWS mod_perl Message-ID: <1108540656.265868.281130@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> A while back I had asked about other people's experience with creating graphs for Apache (CSWS) pages and was pointed to Python for VMS. There were a lot of prerequisites (OpenSSL, libz, etc.) but I successfully got them installed. The original Python never worked but I finally got it working by recompiling the whole thing (there were apparent bugs in the com file but I finally got around those). Anyway, I also installed the latest PERL from the HP website, along with the ECO 3 update and mod_perl for CSWS. As usual with anything the OpenVMS engineers work on, the installs went smoothly and I am able to use PERL alone or in CSWS-served web pages. However, I am still trying to do some of the graphing and now would prefer to do it in PERL. I found a few sites with GDCHART and other GD routines from a DECUS site and others but I am having trouble getting them to install. The documentation mentioned PNG and ZLIB as prerequisites. I successfully built and installed ZLIB. However, during the PNG compile, it chokes on references to "#include " and a few other apparently outdated routines. I tried pointing some to the equivalents in decw$include but so far I am having no luck. Can anyone point me to a site where I can get the correct (current) versions of the GD stuff to link with HP's PERL? Thanks. Bill McLaughlin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:15:53 +0100 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jean-Fran=E7ois_Pi=E9ronne?= Subject: Re: Graphics routines (GDCHART, etc.) with OpenVMS PERL, CSWS mod_perl Message-ID: <37gdptF5d9mhsU1@individual.net> > A while back I had asked about other people's experience with creating > graphs for Apache (CSWS) pages and was pointed to Python for VMS. There > were a lot of prerequisites (OpenSSL, libz, etc.) but I successfully > got them installed. The original Python never worked but I finally got > it working by recompiling the whole thing (there were apparent bugs in > the com file but I finally got around those). > I know that the Python kits have been succesfully installed dozens of times, and I have installed these kits many times myself. So I you have found any problem, instead of just reporting your failure, it would be better to report what problem you have encounter, this may help other guys. Also I you have found and fix bugs, why did you don't send the fix. I you prefer just send any information by private email. > Anyway, I also installed the latest PERL from the HP website, along > with the ECO 3 update and mod_perl for CSWS. As usual with anything the > OpenVMS engineers work on, the installs went smoothly and I am able to > use PERL alone or in CSWS-served web pages. However, I am still trying > to do some of the graphing and now would prefer to do it in PERL. I > found a few sites with GDCHART and other GD routines from a DECUS site > and others but I am having trouble getting them to install. > > The documentation mentioned PNG and ZLIB as prerequisites. I > successfully built and installed ZLIB. However, during the PNG compile, > it chokes on references to "#include " and a few other > apparently outdated routines. I tried pointing some to the equivalents > in decw$include but so far I am having no luck. > > Can anyone point me to a site where I can get the correct (current) > versions of the GD stuff to link with HP's PERL? > > Thanks. > Bill McLaughlin > Regards, Jean-François ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 03:32:22 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Graphics routines (GDCHART, etc.) with OpenVMS PERL, CSWS mod_perl Message-ID: <1108541996.cece622d80e459f7852b790fcffe7306@teranews> mcbill20@yahoo.com wrote: > it chokes on references to "#include " and a few other > apparently outdated routines. I tried pointing some to the equivalents > in decw$include but so far I am having no luck. Xlib.h is still present, at least on VAX and also on Alpha 7.3-2 Which routines does it choke on ? Remember that the VMS version of Xwindows is very old and lacks some of the modern/current routines. There are some ways around some of those however. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Feb 2005 01:18:04 -0800 From: mcbill20@yahoo.com Subject: Re: Graphics routines (GDCHART, etc.) with OpenVMS PERL, CSWS mod_perl Message-ID: <1108545484.166349.243070@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Thank you for the quick reply. Before I go any further, I want to thank you for all your effort on this. I really appreciate those who work to port these applications to VMS. It's nice to have them available and not have to always go to Linux. Unfortunately, I didn't save the logs from the installs. I believe the main problems I had were related to rooted logicals and possible logicals defined with "/trans=conc". I ended up building python in sys$common:[python]. Once I was able to successfully build, I find that I still have to manually define python_root to be dsa0:[sys0.python.] rather than using sys$common. I'll try another install and save the log this time. Thanks. Bill ------------------------------ Date: 16 Feb 2005 01:21:15 -0800 From: mcbill20@yahoo.com Subject: Re: Graphics routines (GDCHART, etc.) with OpenVMS PERL, CSWS mod_perl Message-ID: <1108545675.348181.55830@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> I ended up having to define X11 to be dsa0:[sys0.syscommon.decw$include], and also manually define the decw$include logical, as it was referenced in xlib.h I believe. I am still working on what might be wrong with the build. After getting past the initial problems, here is what I am getting at present: $ @makevms Compiling PNG book programs ... cc /prefix=all/include=([---.zlib],[--]) readpng cc /prefix=all/include=([---.zlib],[--]) readpng2 cc /prefix=all/include=([---.zlib],[--]) writepng Building rpng-x... cc /prefix=all/include=([---.zlib],[--]) rpng-x LINK rpng-x,readpng,lib.opt/opt,x11.opt/opt %LINK-F-OPENIN, error opening DSA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.PNG]LIBPNG.OLB; as input -RMS-E-FNF, file not found Thanks. Bill ------------------------------ Date: 16 FEB 2005 15:16:04 GMT From: Dave Greenwood Subject: Re: Graphics routines (GDCHART, etc.) with OpenVMS PERL, CSWS mod_perl Message-ID: <16FEB05.15160421@feda01.fed.ornl.gov> In a previous article, mcbill20@yahoo.com wrote: > Thank you for the quick reply. Before I go any further, I want to thank > you for all your effort on this. I really appreciate those who work to > port these applications to VMS. It's nice to have them available and > not have to always go to Linux. > > Unfortunately, I didn't save the logs from the installs. I believe the > main problems I had were related to rooted logicals and possible > logicals defined with "/trans=conc". > > I ended up building python in sys$common:[python]. Once I was able to > successfully build, I find that I still have to manually define > python_root to be dsa0:[sys0.python.] rather than using sys$common. If you built python in sys$common:[python] then I would expect python_root to be dsa0:[sys0.syscommon.python.] or dsa0:[vms$common.python.]. Defining python_root to be dsa0:[sys0.python.] would require python to be in the node specific area rather than the commmon area. Unless things have changed recently, you can't create one rooted logical (python_root) out of another (sys$common). That's a VMS restriction. Dave -------------- Dave Greenwood Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOV Oak Ridge National Lab %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 17:57:17 +0100 From: Keith Cayemberg Subject: Re: Graphics routines (GDCHART, etc.) with OpenVMS PERL, CSWS mod_perl Message-ID: <42137b6e$0$24926$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net> mcbill20@yahoo.com wrote: > I ended up having to define X11 to be > dsa0:[sys0.syscommon.decw$include], and also manually define the > decw$include logical, as it was referenced in xlib.h I believe. > > I am still working on what might be wrong with the build. After getting > past the initial problems, here is what I am getting at present: > > $ @makevms > Compiling PNG book programs ... > cc /prefix=all/include=([---.zlib],[--]) readpng > cc /prefix=all/include=([---.zlib],[--]) readpng2 > cc /prefix=all/include=([---.zlib],[--]) writepng > Building rpng-x... > cc /prefix=all/include=([---.zlib],[--]) rpng-x > LINK rpng-x,readpng,lib.opt/opt,x11.opt/opt > %LINK-F-OPENIN, error opening DSA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.PNG]LIBPNG.OLB; as > input > -RMS-E-FNF, file not found > > Thanks. > Bill > In addition to the official OpenVMS Open Source Tools site... http://h71000.www7.hp.com/opensource/opensource.html and Jean-François Piéronne's site... http://www.pi-net.dyndns.org http://www.pi-net.dyndns.org/anonymous/kits/ and Mark Daniels's WASD Download site... http://wasd.vsm.com.au/wasd/ Open Source Libraries and Tools for OpenVMS can be found here... http://nchrem.tnw.tudelft.nl/openvms/software2.html#PNGlib or here... http://www.quadratrix.be/products/open_source_material.html or here... http://decwarch.free.fr/libs.html or here... ftp://erebus.physics.uiowa.edu/~dyson/webalizer/ or here... http://www.yrl.co.uk/phil/pds/pds.html There is also an OpenVMS open source porting BBS at... http://www.4ovms.dyndns.org/phpbb/ Cheers! K.C. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 18:49:14 +0100 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) Subject: Re: Graphics routines (GDCHART, etc.) with OpenVMS PERL, CSWS mod_perl Message-ID: <4213879a.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de> mcbill20@yahoo.com wrote: > I ended up having to define X11 to be dsa0:[sys0.syscommon.decw$include], That's what I was about to suggest. > and also manually define the > decw$include logical, as it was referenced in xlib.h I believe. IIRC, that logical should be defined upon DECwindows startup?! > I am still working on what might be wrong with the build. After getting > past the initial problems, here is what I am getting at present: > > $ @makevms > Compiling PNG book programs ... > cc /prefix=all/include=([---.zlib],[--]) readpng > cc /prefix=all/include=([---.zlib],[--]) readpng2 > cc /prefix=all/include=([---.zlib],[--]) writepng > Building rpng-x... > cc /prefix=all/include=([---.zlib],[--]) rpng-x > LINK rpng-x,readpng,lib.opt/opt,x11.opt/opt > %LINK-F-OPENIN, error opening DSA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.PNG]LIBPNG.OLB; as > input > -RMS-E-FNF, file not found Seems there is a reference to SYS$COMMON:[PNG]LIBPNG.OLB in lib.opt (or x11.opt, which I doubt). Point it to the location where you built LIBPNG.OLB, and the link should get further. cu, Martin -- So long, and thanks | Martin Vorlaender | OpenVMS rules! for all the books... | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de In Memoriam Douglas Adams | http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ 1952-2001 | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de ------------------------------ Date: 16 Feb 2005 07:44:14 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: grep on openVMS? Message-ID: In article , Z writes: > > Examples of well-named VMS commands, such as "PRINT," does not refute > the claim that plenty of VMS commands, qualifiers and layered product > command are not intuitive. Exceptions prove the rule. Didn't we all learn that in elementary school? The point being that most VMS commands are intuitve to the English speaker and most UNIX commands are not intuitive to anyone. After you've learned them they may seem simple enough, but after intensive use of UNIX for over a decade I still don't recall when to -r and when to -R. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Feb 2005 07:41:26 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: grep on openVMS? Message-ID: In article <37f0k0F4or9b5U1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > In article , > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: >> In article <37ee1mF5c71e8U1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>> >>> Actually, you are free to continue to use the original one letter >>> options, but the long one's are also available for those who want >>> the exercise for their fingers. >> >> I think you're confusing gnu with UNIX. > > Call it whatever you want. The utilities, as they are currently > being written by numerous developers around the world, offer the > features I mentioned above. If HPUX or AIX prefer to only offer > the old single letter options that does not prevent a sys admin > from offering the more useful versions. All the current Linux > and BSD versions have them. Purists will tell us that Linux is a Posix compliant OS, not UNIX. gnu of course, is not UNIX by definition. And anything gnu can do it has probably already been ported to VMS. So citing gnu specific features as "UNIX" is fundamentlly incorrect. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 10:15:54 -0800 From: Z Subject: Re: grep on openVMS? Message-ID: Bob Koehler wrote: > In article , Z writes: > >>Examples of well-named VMS commands, such as "PRINT," does not refute >>the claim that plenty of VMS commands, qualifiers and layered product >>command are not intuitive. > > > Exceptions prove the rule. Didn't we all learn that in elementary > school? > > The point being that most VMS commands are intuitve to the English > speaker and most UNIX commands are not intuitive to anyone. I'm not arguing that point, Bob. It doesn't matter to me if the name is grep or SEARCH or FIND ... once I I know it, I know it ... what matters to me is that grep (and egrep), by simple virtue of regular expression syntax, are much more capable than SEARCH. Regular expressions are so useful (IMO, YMMV) for searching that I frequently end up in Perl just to get access to them. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 04:14:12 -0500 From: Dave Froble Subject: Re: Guy Peleg: More wish list items Message-ID: <111636c5dpdtk45@corp.supernews.com> David J Dachtera wrote: > If these aren't already in V8.2... > > New keywords for F$GETSYI() > > IJOBCNT > BJOBCNT > NJOBCNT > > (counterparts to their ...LIM companions) > If you get into HELP, after the list of item codes, you'll see: You can also specify any of the system parameters listed in the OpenVMS System Management Utilities Reference Manual. So, it's been there at least since V7.2. I'm not sure what system parameters are listed in the manual. Perhaps it means all the SYSGEN parameters. Dave ------------------------------ Date: 16 Feb 2005 04:51:11 -0800 From: "Galen" Subject: Re: Guy Peleg: More wish list items Message-ID: <1108558271.883542.181200@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> David J Dachtera wrote: > If these aren't already in V8.2... > > New keywords for F$GETSYI() > > IJOBCNT > BJOBCNT > NJOBCNT > > (counterparts to their ...LIM companions) > This reply is only a tangent since Dave is specifically asking for ...CNT keywords for F$GETSYI and said nothing at all about SYSGEN parameters. But since he alluded to "...LIM" values I just thought I'd post a reminder that as of V8.2 the SYSGEN parameters BJOBLIM and NJOBLIM are documented as obsolete. (Of course, the corresponding F$GETSYI() keywords would still be valid.) I think they've actually _been_ obsolete for a good while. I believe this has come up once before in c.o.v. For the official documentation of this, follow this TinyURL link: http://tinyurl.com/6rc3d The full version of the link is: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/82eft/6674/6674pro_005.html#obsolete ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 18:17:39 +0000 (UTC) From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: I'd heard about this a while back... Message-ID: In article <1108419559.420578.20180@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, bob@instantwhip.com writes: >"We now need something that's not proprietary. Banks don't like >proprietary things," Davies told eWEEK during an interview at the Web >Services on Wall Street Show & Conference here last week. No company likes 'proprietary things'. But for banks, VMS wasn't really proprietary. It was 'standard' for most things banks use. Now over ten years of time, it seems, VMS really lost that position everywhere. >no wonder we are in trouble ... just wait until a >major security breach hits ... Then it will be seen as a cause of the 'internet' (there were no connections from outside into a bank say 20 years ago) and not of a wrong opsys choice. -- Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER Network and OpenVMS system specialist E-mail peter@langstoeger.at A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 15:58:20 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: IBM Linux and Universities Message-ID: In article <1108503784.3ec8d5cf1fb2262e817a14c3cc8afe03@teranews>, JF Mezei writes: >"Main, Kerry" wrote: >> My point was that the server world is not currently 80% Windows based as >> the "analysts" of the time were predicting when Windows hype was at its >> peak. > >Your definition of "server" is probably different. Oh, and let us know >when Winkler has changed his mind about Windows eviscerating the >underbelly of Unix and other proprietary servers. > > >Consider the days prior to Window 3.1 when ALL-IN-1 was the largest >email system in he world (the most "seats"). VMS had a large portion of >the corporate email servers. Now, it has none because Palmer murdered >ALL-In-1 and Curly gave it its final coup de grâce (not even ported to IA64). > >So, now, if you don't consider Exchange boxes to be servers, then >perhaps you are right that Windows may not have 80% of market. > Exchange is fairly widely used within Companies however so are lots of Unix and other systems. Exchange is not used that widely as the front-door mail system for large Companies. For home users who run their own mailserver the overwhelming majority would probably be running Sendmail on Linux. David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 17:05:48 GMT From: Keith Parris Subject: Re: IBM's 'Chiphopper' Message-ID: John Smith wrote: > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1738&ncid=1209&e=3&u=/zd/20050214/tc_zd/145844 Based on the name, I at first thought this might be like FX!32, or VEST, but was disappointed to find out it's just a set of tools to help port Linux x86 applications to Power. IBM obviously realizes how difficult it is for a non-mainstream microprocessor to gain traction in the Linux world. The ironic thing about this is that IBM actually sells far more Linux on Itanium (by a factor of almost 20 to 1) than it does Linux on Power, according to IDC data, 3CQ04. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 08:58:49 -0800 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: IBM's 'Chiphopper' Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 17:05:48 GMT, Keith Parris wrote: > John Smith wrote: >> http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1738&ncid=1209&e=3&u=/zd/20050214/tc_zd/145844 > > Based on the name, I at first thought this might be like FX!32, or VEST, > but was disappointed to find out it's just a set of tools to help port > Linux x86 applications to Power. > > IBM obviously realizes how difficult it is for a non-mainstream > microprocessor to gain traction in the Linux world. The ironic thing > about this is that IBM actually sells far more Linux on Itanium (by a > factor of almost 20 to 1) than it does Linux on Power, according to IDC > data, 3CQ04. How does that compare with Linux on x86 from IBM? -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 17:09:11 +0000 (UTC) From: m.kraemer@gsi.de (Michael Kraemer) Subject: Re: IBM's 'Chiphopper' Message-ID: In article , Keith Parris writes: > > IBM obviously realizes how difficult it is for a non-mainstream > microprocessor to gain traction in the Linux world. The ironic thing > about this is that IBM actually sells far more Linux on Itanium (by a > factor of almost 20 to 1) than it does Linux on Power, according to IDC > data, 3CQ04. This might have to do with the fact that they have better OSes than Linux to offer for their Power boxes. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 10:53:51 +0100 From: Paul Sture Subject: Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP Message-ID: <37gjhfF5brtknU1@individual.net> Alphaman wrote: > Paul Sture wrote: > >> Carl Karcher wrote: >> >> I did something similar in the mid 80s with a fleet of exchangeable >> disks. I mounted each disk with /OVERRIDE=IDENTIFICATION, and if the >> label was valid (held in a DCL string of elements), then mount it >> /SYSTEM. > > > Careful with that Mount/Over=id. If you're in a cluster and the disk is > already mounted on a remote node, this will fail. It's also > *reeeeeaallllllly sloooooooooow*..... > Noted, and I'd better state clearly that this was not a VMS cluster (V3.3 or less). > Search this newsgroup's archive and you'll find a program (Macro, IIRC) > called GETVOLNAM. This will very, very quickly read the header from the > disk (even if mounted on a remote node) and return the volume label, > allowing you to get the disk mounted in a fraction of the time it would > take to get the volume label alone using Mou/Ov=id. > Interesting. > If you use f$dev to scan for disks, be sure to add logic to exclude CDs > (esp. DQ devices that may not even exist -- trying to mount them isn't > pretty and you won't like doing it!!) and floppies. Oh, and TU58's show > up as disks, IIRC. > Yes, and exclude DNFS volumes too. > There are some really good reasons for mounting at least a shared > cluster disk in SyLogicals -- shared Qman files, TCP/IP proxy and host > files, RightsList and SysUAF.dat files, etc. SyLogicals is the place to > have the disks mounted if you're defining the logicals that point to > them therein. > And this is recommended in SYLOGICALS. (the .TEMPLATE file has this, even if your site specific .COM is inherited from older versions and doesn't): $! Include MOUNT/SYSTEM command(s) for the disk(s) on which the above files $! reside on. Please see SYS$EXAMPLES:CLU_MOUNT_DISK.COM for the recommended $! method of performing these MOUNT/SYSTEM operations. $ > There's also a way to find out if a volume needs rebuilding > (unfortunately, I don't recall how -- it might be an arg to f$getdvi, > but it's not readily apparent to me at this time); that, coupled with > determining whether a disk is local or remote (don't bother rebuilding > remote drives) can be put into a batch job or even a Run/Delay detached > process during SyStartup_VMS that runs several minutes after the system > has booted. (That way, you're not using up a job in a batch queue that > probably has enough other startup tasks that have to be done, nor are > you dependent upon other jobs in case you've got an exhausted job limit > on a queue.) > > I wrote just such a DCL program a year or two ago for one of our > commercial products. I'd post it if it were possible, but the above > summarizes some of the major items I found that could help. > I believe others have posted similar DCL snippets here in the past. Here's one of mine, taken from a disk usage report, which contains the basic processing loop: http://tinyurl.com/6ohb3 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 17:21:12 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP Message-ID: In article <15FEB05.14431644@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>, karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) writes: > In a previous article, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote: > > -> ... > ->I do, too, but you have to have the physical disk names SOMEwhere. > > Not really. You could use: > > $ DISK = F$DEVICE("*","DISK") > > in a loop to find all the disk devices on the system. In that same loop > you could try to mount devices that match certain criteria (e.g. not a > template device, is directory structured and sharable), purposely using > wrong label, then parse the error message from mount to obtain correct > label and try again. You could even save the correct label in an indexed > file to use next time. Been mounting disks this way since the 80's. As I mention, I have shadow sets. So I have to have a list of labels somewhere, so I might as well have a list of disks. Or should I try to mount all possible combinations of 2 or 3 disks and see which are valid shadow sets by taking action depending on the error code? ------------------------------ Date: 16 Feb 2005 07:49:57 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: NFS mounts to Solaris Server Message-ID: In article <1108492438.292365.298340@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Jim" writes: > > 1. When compiling with Compaq-c via GNV, the compilier will not follow > the include paths specified. If I do a DIR or ls we can see them. If I > put the full unix pathname in the file being compiled, CC will find it. I don't know what GNV does for this, but in general using include paths inside the #include statement is a common problem cause. There are still compilers on non-UNIX platofrms that will choke on them. Putting the include paths on the compiler options allows you to write more portable code. > 2. Our NFS mounts are not persistant across logins, the system user has > to stay logged in for others to use the mounts. VMS mounts are not permanent and multi-user unless they include /system or /cluster. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Feb 2005 07:03:37 GMT From: "Dave Weatherall" Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 15:41:37 UTC, "Jeff Goodwin" wrote: > My OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution arrived today. > > You'll all be happy to know that the box has a Java Compatible logo on it. > :) > > -Jeff Ok, I'll bite, what makes a logo Java compatible? :-)) -- Cheers - Dave W. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 02:33:17 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution Message-ID: <1108538455.f4762073a9bf3704f1baa258bca6cb0c@teranews> Dave Weatherall wrote: > > You'll all be happy to know that the box has a Java Compatible logo on it. > > :) > > > > -Jeff > > Ok, I'll bite, what makes a logo Java compatible? :-)) It means it has been sanctioned by Sun. What was it during the Compaq era that had been shipped with either a Sun logo or a picture of Sun equipment on the box ? (it was VMS stuff inside). ------------------------------ Date: 16 Feb 2005 04:56:54 -0800 From: "Galen" Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution Message-ID: <1108558614.230525.267290@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> If the logo were made of silicon with a Java processor etched into it, would that make the logo Java compatible? :-D ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:09:03 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution Message-ID: In article , "Tom Linden" writes: >On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 12:22:17 -0800, DeanW wrote: > >> On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:02:50 +0000 (UTC), Bradford J. Hamilton >Isn't the basic difference that passwds are transmitted unencrypted with >telnet? Aside from this, it would seem that breakins have the same >probability of success, independent of whether you use telnet or ssh > A SSH brute force password guesser brutessh2 was published in August 2004 which a lot of script kiddies seem to be using see http://www.k-otik.com/exploits/08202004.brutessh2.c.php David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University > >-- >Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 05:21:15 -0800 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:09:03 +0000 (UTC), wrote: > In article , "Tom Linden" > writes: >> On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 12:22:17 -0800, DeanW >> wrote: >> >>> On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:02:50 +0000 (UTC), Bradford J. Hamilton >> Isn't the basic difference that passwds are transmitted unencrypted with >> telnet? Aside from this, it would seem that breakins have the same >> probability of success, independent of whether you use telnet or ssh >> > > A SSH brute force password guesser brutessh2 was published in August 2004 > which a lot of script kiddies seem to be using see > > http://www.k-otik.com/exploits/08202004.brutessh2.c.php > > But if the site only allows three login tries per hour, it might take a long time. > > > David Webb > Security team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University > >> >> -- >> Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ------------------------------ Date: 16 Feb 2005 10:01:05 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution Message-ID: In article , "Tom Linden" writes: > Isn't the basic difference that passwds are transmitted unencrypted with > telnet? Aside from this, it would seem that breakins have the same > probability of success, independent of whether you use telnet or ssh The basic difference is that everything is transmitted encrypted with SSH. Passwords, of course, are a prime concern, but the data may also be of interest. The increase in attacks upon opening SSH is probably a social issue. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Feb 2005 10:02:14 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution Message-ID: In article , "Dave Weatherall" writes: > > Ok, I'll bite, what makes a logo Java compatible? :-)) A trip to Starbucks? ------------------------------ Date: 16 Feb 2005 02:37:42 -0800 From: mcbill20@yahoo.com Subject: Oracle LGWR process does continuous direct I/O's Message-ID: <1108550262.279489.132140@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> I saw this problem once before with Oracle 7.? or 8.? I believe. The database works OK but the Oracle LGWR process runs constantly, even with no database activity. The last time (several years ago), I was told that this was an Oracle bug and I just needed to get a patch. That turned out to be correct. Here is my current config: OpenVMS 7.3-1 Oracle 9.2.0.2 As far as I can tell, this time the problem started when I installed VMS731_UPDATE V5.0. I assumed I could just go to the Oracle website and get the latest patches, but the metalink website has recently purged their user/password database. I tried to reregister but it requires a valid CSID, which I don't have anymore, as a home user. I don't know why they would have a policy like this. It's kind of funny-- just the opposite of the OpenVMS policy. With VMS, you have to pay for the original software (other than hobbyist) but you then get free access to bug fixes. With Oracle, you can download all their products for free but can't get bug fixes without paying. And of course, they appear to be way behind in porting. I noticed Oracle 10g available for download on just about every platform except VMS. Any suggestions? Thanks. Bill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 08:20:02 -0500 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Oracle LGWR process does continuous direct I/O's Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: mcbill20@yahoo.com [mailto:mcbill20@yahoo.com]=20 > Sent: February 16, 2005 5:38 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Oracle LGWR process does continuous direct I/O's >=20 > I saw this problem once before with Oracle 7.? or 8.? I believe. The > database works OK but the Oracle LGWR process runs constantly, even > with no database activity. >=20 > The last time (several years ago), I was told that this was an Oracle > bug and I just needed to get a patch. That turned out to be correct. >=20 > Here is my current config: >=20 > OpenVMS 7.3-1 > Oracle 9.2.0.2 >=20 > As far as I can tell, this time the problem started when I installed > VMS731_UPDATE V5.0. I assumed I could just go to the Oracle=20 > website and > get the latest patches, but the metalink website has recently purged > their user/password database. I tried to reregister but it requires a > valid CSID, which I don't have anymore, as a home user. >=20 > I don't know why they would have a policy like this. It's kind of > funny-- just the opposite of the OpenVMS policy. With VMS, you have to > pay for the original software (other than hobbyist) but you then get > free access to bug fixes. With Oracle, you can download all their > products for free but can't get bug fixes without paying. >=20 > And of course, they appear to be way behind in porting. I noticed > Oracle 10g available for download on just about every platform except > VMS.=20 >=20 > Any suggestions? >=20 > Thanks. > Bill >=20 Bill, A few misc notes: - the porting dates for Oracle 10G are in the roadmaps at: (updated Feb '05) http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps.htm - might want to review patches not in the -500 release at: ftp://ftp.itrc.hp.com/openvms_patches/alpha/V7.3-1/ALPHA_V731_MASTER_ECO _LIST.txt In particular, check out: (has ref to Oracle deadlock issue) ftp://ftp.itrc.hp.com/openvms_patches/alpha/V7.3-1/VMS731_ACRTL-V0300.tx t - keep in mind that Oracle are doing BOTH OpenVMS Itanium AND Alpha versions of 10G at the same time. Oracle Rdb for OpenVMS Itanium beta is now available. [my personal take is that most Cust's are still using some version of 9i (9.2.0.5?) and even 8i. It is only a small subset of those who are actively planning to implement 10G in the short term, but ymmv] Oracle 9.2.0.2 is pretty old from an Oracle perspective. Later release notes have numerous misc fixes for LGWR process. V9.2.0.5 is latest version on OpenVMS with 9.2.0.6 slated for March/April timeframe based on Oracle support comments in Metalink. Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20 "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .." ------------------------------ Date: 16 Feb 2005 10:41:43 GMT From: Phaeton Subject: Re: OT: Where do you get your News feed? Message-ID: <37gmb7F5el7pjU1@individual.net> Thomas Wirt wrote: > I got this email today and am looking for an alternate means to read and > post. The News.Individual.NET fees are very reasonable, but I am not > interested in entering into a contract paid in Euros. The last time > that I asked this group this question, the answer I got was > News.Individual.NET. I am now asking what people use for their feed. I > am curious if most of you get your News from a remote server as a > service, or do you maintain your own News server? If you maintain your > own News server where do you get your feed for that? > I hope I get some answers. Please do not make me go back to Google > groups for posting!! :) I really like to read and post from the comfort > of my chosen News reader. Go to the Usenet newsgroup "alt.free.newsservers" and read the posts there. Alternatively, use www.google.com to search for free nntp / news servers ( keywords: free nntp news servers ) Also, there is a webring of sites hosting server details too : http://q.webring.com/hub?ring=nntp Hope this helps... Csaba ------------------------------------------------------------------------- CSABA I. HARANGOZO |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| phaeton at iinet dot net dot au ------------------------------------------------------------------------- EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]: Nolan's Placebo : An ounce of image is worth a pound of performance. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Feb 2005 13:31:41 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: OT: Where do you get your News feed? Message-ID: <37h09tF5ehi15U2@individual.net> In article <37f872F59aqoqU1@individual.net>, Thomas Wirt writes: > I got this email today and am looking for an alternate means to read and > post. The News.Individual.NET fees are very reasonable, but I am not > interested in entering into a contract paid in Euros. The last time > that I asked this group this question, the answer I got was > News.Individual.NET. I am now asking what people use for their feed. I > am curious if most of you get your News from a remote server as a > service, or do you maintain your own News server? If you maintain your > own News server where do you get your feed for that? > > I hope I get some answers. Please do not make me go back to Google > groups for posting!! :) I really like to read and post from the comfort > of my chosen News reader. > Another data point for those wondering wether or not it is worth the 10 Euros. I checked out my ISP's (verizon) News Server. The amount of SPAM would make actually reading news there very painful. Some of the groups I read regularly (like the PDP-11 groups) have more SPAM than real content on their server while on news.individual.de I see almost none in any group. Not connected with Freie Universität Berlin, just a satisfied customer. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:18:28 +0000 From: John Laird Subject: Re: OT: Where do you get your News feed? Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:34:24 -0500, Thomas Wirt wrote: >The News.Individual.NET fees are very reasonable, but I am not >interested in entering into a contract paid in Euros. Pourqoui pas ? The RoW merrily orders stuff from US suppliers in dollars. Admittedly, this does mean any goods or services are getting cheaper at the moment, whereas for you your $13 annual sub may edge up to $14 or more, but is it really a big deal ? Running one's own news server is no trivial task - you either need to download posts from a nearby server (which is no different from running a single news client, either technically or financially), or arrange to be fed everything (which will probably cost even more). Forte's APN service is very good, but somewhat more than 10 Euros p.a. (about $3/month iirc). -- You dialed an imaginary number. Turn the phone 90 degrees and retry. Mail john rather than nospam... ------------------------------ Date: 16 Feb 2005 07:46:01 -0800 From: Javier Henderson Subject: Re: OT: Where do you get your News feed? Message-ID: <86k6p8v77q.fsf@skylane.kjsl.com> Thomas Wirt writes: > I got this email today and am looking for an alternate means to read > and post. The News.Individual.NET fees are very reasonable, but I am > not interested in entering into a contract paid in Euros. The last > time that I asked this group this question, the answer I got was > News.Individual.NET. I am now asking what people use for their feed. > I am curious if most of you get your News from a remote server as a > service, or do you maintain your own News server? If you maintain > your own News server where do you get your feed for that? I run my own news server, and have several reliable feeds. I'll be happy to exchange feeds with whomever asks, just drop me a note and we'll take it from there. -jav ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 17:31:01 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: OT: Where do you get your News feed? Message-ID: In article <37f872F59aqoqU1@individual.net>, Thomas Wirt writes: > I got this email today and am looking for an alternate means to read and > post. The News.Individual.NET fees are very reasonable, but I am not > interested in entering into a contract paid in Euros. The last time > that I asked this group this question, the answer I got was > News.Individual.NET. I am now asking what people use for their feed. I > am curious if most of you get your News from a remote server as a > service, or do you maintain your own News server? If you maintain your > own News server where do you get your feed for that? > > I hope I get some answers. Please do not make me go back to Google > groups for posting!! :) I really like to read and post from the comfort > of my chosen News reader. My ISP has a news server; maybe yours does too! Probably, most of their users don't even know what a news server is, so they don't bother mentioning it. The only disadvantage is that I can't post articles which I moderate for a moderated newsgroup. Fortunately, I have an account on a remote machine at a university I use for that purpose, but I use my ISPs newsserver for everything else. I have used Matt Madison's NEWSRDR program for more than 10 years; highly recommended! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:50:29 +0200 From: Mike Rechtman Subject: Re: Queue Length on shadow disk Message-ID: <42131765.8B596BD@hp.com> bill@wcschmidt.com wrote: > > I would think this was a missing patch, but I have 10 DSA on a 2 member > cluster and all the other drives are reporting normally and this is > only happening on 1 system IIRC: Known problem with $MONITOR DISK/IT=QUEUE on V7.2 with disks used as spool devices for print queues. Is this your case? Also think it was fixed in ECOs after V7.2-x (only...) Mike -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that. Mike Rechtman *rechtman@tzora.co.il* Kibbutz Tzor'a. Voice (home): 972-2-9908337 "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%" --------------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$ PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ ------------------------------ Date: 16 Feb 2005 01:26:58 -0800 From: Pierre.Bru@spotimage.fr Subject: read monitor (>>>) variables from OpenVMS ? Message-ID: <1108546018.549993.318580@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> hi, is there a way to read the monitor variables (thoses at the >>> prompt, before boot) from an OpenVMS session ? TIA, Pierre. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Feb 2005 01:33:51 -0800 From: mcbill20@yahoo.com Subject: Re: read monitor (>>>) variables from OpenVMS ? Message-ID: <1108546431.364565.261640@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> You can use f$getenv. Type: $ help lexical f$getenv arguments to get a list of items you can read. Here is sample output: $ write sys$output f$getenv("bootdef_dev") SCSI 0 1008 0 0 0 0 0 $ write sys$output f$getenv("booted_osflags") 0 $ write sys$output f$getenv("tty_dev") 0 $ write sys$output f$getenv("license") MU $ write sys$output f$getenv("auto_action") HALT What are you trying to accomplish? Bill ------------------------------ Date: 16 Feb 2005 05:24:51 -0800 From: Pierre.Bru@spotimage.fr Subject: Re: read monitor (>>>) variables from OpenVMS ? Message-ID: <1108560291.294759.156080@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> thx. I want to know if a network adaptor is set to 100Mb full duplex with LANCP after the boot or with a >>> command and I can not shutdown/reboot the alpha now. Pierre. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:27:15 +0000 From: Roy Omond Subject: Re: read monitor (>>>) variables from OpenVMS ? Message-ID: <37h061F5a3bssU1@individual.net> Pierre.Bru@spotimage.fr wrote: > thx. > > I want to know if a network adaptor is set to 100Mb full duplex with > LANCP after the boot or with a >>> command and I can not > shutdown/reboot the alpha now. $ mcr lancp LANCP> show device/char Couldn't you simply have done: $ mcr lancp LANCP> help LANCP> help show device ------------------------------ Date: 16 Feb 2005 14:31:44 +0100 From: huber@NOBODY-mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber) Subject: Re: read monitor (>>>) variables from OpenVMS ? Message-ID: In article <1108560291.294759.156080@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, Pierre.Bru@spotimage.fr writes: > thx. > > I want to know if a network adaptor is set to 100Mb full duplex with > LANCP after the boot or with a >>> command and I can not > shutdown/reboot the alpha now. LANCP show device ewa0 /characteristic/all -- Joseph Huber, Muenchen http://www.huber-joseph.de/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 05:57:42 -0800 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: read monitor (>>>) variables from OpenVMS ? Message-ID: On 16 Feb 2005 01:33:51 -0800, wrote: > write sys$output f$getenv("auto_action") I would find it useful on occasion to do something like $ write sys$output f$getenv("auto_action") RESTART $ write sys$output f$setenv("auto_action","halt") modified $ ! similarly read and set CONSOLE $ reboot or -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ------------------------------ Date: 16 Feb 2005 06:03:10 -0800 From: Pierre.Bru@spotimage.fr Subject: Re: read monitor (>>>) variables from OpenVMS ? Message-ID: <1108562589.998766.167260@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> yes, I know LANCP, but do Yes Full duplex enable Yes Full duplex operational TwistedPair Line media type 100 Line speed (mbps) mean that the network adapter has been setup like this before the boot at the >>> prompt or after the boot with a LANCP command ? Pierre. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:21:26 +0000 From: Roy Omond Subject: Re: read monitor (>>>) variables from OpenVMS ? Message-ID: <37h3bjF5dlnt9U1@individual.net> Pierre.Bru@spotimage.fr wrote: > yes, I know LANCP, but do > > Yes Full duplex enable > Yes Full duplex operational > TwistedPair Line media type > 100 Line speed (mbps) > > mean that the network adapter has been setup like this before the boot > at the >>> prompt or after the boot with a LANCP command ? OK, I had parsed your original query as a native English speaker. Now I understand what you were asking. Using LANCP, it is impossible to tell. If this is a standalone system, then hit Break / Control-P or whatever it is for your system at the console, then: >>> show e*mode (and if necessary) >>> set e...mode FastFD (e.g. >>> set ewa0_mode FastFD) Then: >>> c In a cluster enviroment, just make sure your typing speed is, ahem, appropriately fast :-) ------------------------------ Date: 16 Feb 2005 08:37:33 -0800 From: JimStrehlow@data911.com Subject: Re: read monitor (>>>) variables from OpenVMS ? Message-ID: <1108571853.458156.104310@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> What version of OpenVMS allows you to use a f$setenv function? v7.3-1 returns an -IVFAM invalid lexical function name. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:01:29 -0800 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: read monitor (>>>) variables from OpenVMS ? Message-ID: On 16 Feb 2005 08:37:33 -0800, wrote: > What version of OpenVMS allows you to use a f$setenv function? > v7.3-1 returns an -IVFAM invalid lexical function name. > > Jim > Didn't imply it existed, I said it would be useful -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 11:01:14 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: rx5670 for $2K Message-ID: <00A3F775.629FBE5A@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article , "Tom Linden" writes: >Anybody else get the offer? Now if only I could get it with GEM, >I could use it. > >http://h21007.www2.hp.com/dspp/prot/ne/ne_NewsDetail_PRT_IDX/1,1649,1908,00.html I get no communications from DSPP. -- http://www.ProvN.com for the *best* OpenVMS system security solutions that others only claim to be. -- Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.: The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software product! -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ------------------------------ Date: 16 Feb 2005 03:53:34 -0800 From: "Galen" Subject: Re: rx5670 for $2K Message-ID: <1108554814.005133.163730@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> This offer is only available to DSPP _company_ members. Individual members (like me, unfortunately) don't have access to DSPP's discounts on hardware. Tom Linden wrote: > Anybody else get the offer? Now if only I could get it with GEM, > I could use it. > > http://h21007.www2.hp.com/dspp/prot/ne/ne_NewsDetail_PRT_IDX/1,1649,1908,00.html > -- > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ------------------------------ Date: 16 Feb 2005 11:48:08 -0600 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: rx5670 for $2K Message-ID: <5MFyd+Hr0Ova@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <00A3F775.629FBE5A@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > In article , "Tom Linden" writes: >>Anybody else get the offer? Now if only I could get it with GEM, >>I could use it. >> >>http://h21007.www2.hp.com/dspp/prot/ne/ne_NewsDetail_PRT_IDX/1,1649,1908,00.html > > I get no communications from DSPP. Nor do we. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Feb 2005 01:14:03 -0800 From: "AEF" Subject: Re: Speed of light as speed limit (was Re: DECW$CLOCK design flaw !) Message-ID: <1108545243.560776.95730@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> JF Mezei wrote: > AEF wrote: > > always comes out right. Furthermore, physicists have accelerated > > particles to enormous energies in the lab. They have given particles > > such energies that would propel them to a thousand times the speed of > > light (and more) according to pre-relativistic (Newtonian) physics. > > But none have built a small "rocket" engine on the particle to give it > the ability to self-accelerate. > > Transfering energy from a stable location to one which is travelling at > nearly the speed of light is not the same as generating acceleration > from within the "thing" travelling at very very high speed. That's right. But in this case it only makes matters worse. > In a madison bike race (in a velodrome), it is a relay race where the > runner transfers his speed to the one taking the relay. (think about a > controlled collision between 2 bikesgoing different speeds). If the > "giver" is going at 50km/h and the "taker" is going at 30km/h, there is > a 20km/h difference and thus quite a bit of energy transfer when contact > is established and the take accereates as he receives the energy from > the giver. > > But if the giver is going at 50kmh and the taker is going at 50kmh, then > the giver won't be able to give any additional energy to the taker so > the take won't be able to accelerate anymore. > > But that doesn't mean that each cyclist can't use his legs to accelerate > beyond 50km/h. This has nothing to do with how accelerators work. [...] > > So in your example, you are using devices capable of giving a limited > amount of speed. (lets say a powerful magnet). Once the particle has > attained the speed of the magnetic impulse that is pushing it, further > magnetic impulses will not accelerate it further, a bit like a sailboat > that is already going at the same speed as the wind. More wind at the > same speed won't accelerate it anymore. Again, this has nothing to do with how accelerators work. > Or, once a surfer has accelereated to a point where he has moved ahead > of the wave, the wave won't accelerate him anymore until he slows down > and lets the wave catch up to him. > > However, put a small motor on the surfboard and the surfer will be able > to accelerate beyond the speed of the wave. > > So far , experiements have all been about particles accelerated by > stationary devices/magnets/whatever. A particle riding a wave produced > externally and thus limited by the speed of that wsoave. So basically, > what the law states is that if you build a solar sail, the vehicle won't > be able to go faster than the speed of the energy sent at the solar sail. Well, JF, can you tell me what is limiting this wave? I assure you it is not a limitation of the device itself. You have no idea of how accelerators work. > > But I don't believe that they have done any "engine on a particle" that > would allow the particle to throw mass out to accelerate itself. (eg: > ion engine, rocket engine etc). As I said above this would only make matters worse. > > If mass becomes infinite at the speed of light, then known quantity of > H2 you burn with O2 and propell out the back will also represent > infinite mass and provide infinite acceleration. (relative to a > stationary object, but on the space ship, it would still be the same > masses to you, and the apple you pickup from the refrigirator would > still be just as easy to move around inside the spaceship and wouldn't > have an infinite mass relative to what your muscles can move. ). This is nonsense. What's relevant here is that these devices give the particles enough energy to travel at over a thousand times the speed of light (according to pre-relativistic physics), yet the observed speeds are instead a hair less than that of light in vacuum. The speed of your wave has nothing to do with this limitation. If that's all it was then the physicists would simply increase the speed of the wave! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 05:12:25 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Speed of light as speed limit (was Re: DECW$CLOCK design flaw !) Message-ID: <1108547992.6f6a27bd1ba90d44dd450f39eeb119e3@teranews> AEF wrote: > This has nothing to do with how accelerators work. But this is my point. The only empirical "evidence" so far are accelerators which are essentially glorified wind in sails. The sailboat can't go any faster than the wind speed, no matter how big its sail is (how much energy it can receive from wind). a beam of light can be dim or extremely bright. Energy level is different. But it still just travels at the speed of light and a solar sail ain't going to go faster than whatever is pushing it. My point is that a stationary device that sends energy to a body (such as your accelerator) is not the same as a body having its own method of accelerating by itself (such as a real spaceship which throws mass behind it to accelerate itsefl forwards) > Again, this has nothing to do with how accelerators work. Exactly. My point is that accelerators do not simulate a spaceship having its own propulsion system. It simulates a spaceship having a big solar sail and relying on a stationary emitter of energy which travels at a certain speed towards the sail and thus limits this ship to the speed at which that energy travels. > Well, JF, can you tell me what is limiting this wave? I assure you it > is not a limitation of the device itself. You have no idea of how > accelerators work. Aren't they glorified magnets pushing particles in vacuum ? > What's relevant here is that these devices give the particles enough > energy to travel at over a thousand times the speed of light A hydraulic piston is able to impart a huge amount of energy on a object. But if it moves at 5km/h, no matter if the object is a golf ball or a 18 wheel truck, neither will go faster than 5km/h because once they have reached 5km/h, they go as fast as the piston and thus get no more acceleration. So your accelerators may unleash a huge amount of energy, 1000 times what is needed to go to the speed of light, but if the energy travels at speed of light, then it won't be able to accelerate the object faster than that. (same as the hydraulic piston unleashing 1000 times what it takes to accelerate a golf ball to 5km/h, but the golf ball will still go just at 5km/h. > nothing to do with this limitation. If that's all it was then the > physicists would simply increase the speed of the wave! Waves only travel at a certain speed relative to the object that creates the wave. Your fancy accelerator magnets may be made up of a million seperate magnets that are triggered in a sequence that goes above the speed of light around the acceletor. But each magnet is still stationary, and the magnetic wave it emits during the fraction of second it is activated is still limited to the speed of a wave emitted by a stationary magnet. It is like having a million fans along a sailing course. You can trigger the fans in a sequence that goes from one fan to the next very quickly, but in the end the speed of the wind created by each fan still determines how fast my sailboat will go. The triggering of fans in sequence only saves you energy by only triggering the fans that are next to me at any point in time. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Feb 2005 07:34:42 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: Speed of light as speed limit (was Re: DECW$CLOCK design flaw !) Message-ID: In article <1108547992.6f6a27bd1ba90d44dd450f39eeb119e3@teranews>, JF Mezei writes: > AEF wrote: >> This has nothing to do with how accelerators work. > > But this is my point. Since you don't understand how accelerators work, your point is without merit. > The only empirical "evidence" so far are > accelerators which are essentially glorified wind in sails. The sailboat > can't go any faster than the wind speed, no matter how big its sail is > (how much energy it can receive from wind). Let us add sailing to the list of things you don't know beans about. Sailboats can go faster than the wind. John Briggs ------------------------------ Date: 16 Feb 2005 10:31:45 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Speed of light as speed limit (was Re: DECW$CLOCK design flaw !) Message-ID: In article <1108547992.6f6a27bd1ba90d44dd450f39eeb119e3@teranews>, JF Mezei writes: > AEF wrote: >> This has nothing to do with how accelerators work. > > But this is my point. The only empirical "evidence" so far are > accelerators which are essentially glorified wind in sails. The sailboat > can't go any faster than the wind speed, no matter how big its sail is > (how much energy it can receive from wind). Sorry, sailboats can and do go faster than the wind speed, especially when tacking. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 04:23:12 -0500 From: Dave Froble Subject: Re: Superfluous Responses WAS Re: DCL command to show number of interactive use Message-ID: <11163n77mih9619@corp.supernews.com> Tom Linden wrote: > On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:26:40 -0500, Dave Froble > wrote: > >> Ken Fairfield wrote: >> >>> bob@instantwhip.com wrote: >>> >>>> wrong, wrong ... I don't want to have to parse >>>> output but do a system call to retrieve a number >>>> into a symbol ... >>>> $ ? >>> >>> $ iusers = F$GetSyi("IJOBLIM") >>> Looks like the rest of you folks need to go back for a >>> DCL refresher course... :-) >>> -Ken >> >> >> Uh Uh Ken, he wants the currently logged in interactive users, not >> the authorized number of interactive users specified in IJOBLIM. > > > I notice quite often many responses that are out of sync, they are > responding > to something that was long ago resolved. Why is that? Are they not > reading > the responses, are they not able to read the responses, have they not > seen the > responses? I for one, find it a nuisance. > >> >> I didn't think that looked right, and went into help, VAX/VMS V7.2, >> and didn't immediately find that item code. Further reading showed: >> >> You can also specify any of the system parameters listed in the >> OpenVMS System Management Utilities Reference Manual. >> >> You get used to looking for what you want to see, and forget to >> actually read the text. :-) >> >> Dave > > > > At the time I posted, there were no other responses to Ken that I could see. I'm reading news provided by my ISP. They seem to be more timely than my last ISP, but, I've noticed things out of sync many times. Dave ------------------------------ Date: 15 Feb 2005 23:15:14 -0800 From: "AEF" Subject: Re: Superfluous Responses WAS Re: DCL command to show number of Message-ID: <1108538114.500877.123940@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> George Cook wrote: > In article , "Tom Linden" writes: > > On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:26:40 -0500, Dave Froble > > wrote: > > > >> Ken Fairfield wrote: > >>> bob@instantwhip.com wrote: [...] > > I notice quite often many responses that are out of sync, they are > > responding > > to something that was long ago resolved. Why is that? Are they not > > reading > > the responses, are they not able to read the responses, have they not seen > > the > > responses? I for one, find it a nuisance. They are not reading the responses. They are not able to read the responses. They have not seen the responses. You missed a comma between "I" and "for one". :-) > In general they have not seen the responses (and in some cases may never > see some of them). Usenet is a multiply interconnected store and forward > network with highly variable propagation times. I have administered > a news server for over ten years and in the early years was lucky to > have news articles within 12 hours of being current. When I accessed comp.os.vms via delphi in the late 90s, I noticed that many posts actually were missing as compared to dejanews! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 08:39:43 -0800 From: DeanW Subject: TCPIP automatic route additions Message-ID: <3f119ada0502160839a6e7021@mail.gmail.com> I have a customer with a somewhat mis-configured network. Clients are connecting to the VMS box via a router that normally shouldn't be passing that traffic- and when they do, TCPIP (5.0a) automatically adds a route back to that client's subnet through the incorrect router, which then prevents all the rest of the clients on that subnet from connecting the proper way. It's a simple installation, with not dynamic routing enabled on the VMS side (or anywhere, if they're following my suggestion- but they did just bring a high-priced network consultant in, which is probably how we got this mess in the first place... *sigh*) Anyway, the routing table should look like: $ tcpip sho route DYNAMIC Type Destination Gateway DN 0.0.0.0 172.16.1.1 DH 127.0.0.1 127.0.0.1 AN 172.16.0.0/22 172.16.1.4 DN /24 172.16.1.10 $ tcpip sho route /perm PERMANENT Type Destination Gateway PN 0.0.0.0 172.16.1.1 PH 127.0.0.1 127.0.0.1 PN 172.16.0.0/22 172.16.1.4 PN /28 172.16.1.10 $ The trouble comes when something connects from 192.168.0.x via the firewall at 172.16.1.10 instead of coming in through the default router (172.16.1.1) Solving this issue is going to take some time, as it's sporradic (usually once or twice a month) but crippling when it happens, until the incorrect routes get removed. Is there a way to have TCPIP not automatically add routes that I don't want? If I put a permanent route in for 192.168.0/24 to go through the default router, will that defeat the automatic routes being added? (I'm dubious- note that the permenant route to the external net is correct, the dynamic one has an incorrect bitmask...) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:33:31 +0000 (UTC) From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Thoughts about VMS ECOs now in .PCSI$COMPRESSED form Message-ID: In case you haven't noticed (eg. haven't got the mail relayed from Sue): VMS ECOs are now no longer distributed via FTSV DCX compressed .PCSI kits. These kits are now in .PCSI$COMPRESSED format. Yesterday, the first ECOs was released in this format (VMS732_DRIVER V0100) (why isn't it included in the master ECO list ??) and I wish to express my thoughts/rants. 1) I like to get a kit with the original date from VMS engineering. That means, I don't like files with dates from a copy, ftp or download. Therefore, I like to get them ZIPped, BACKUPed or DCXed. 2) I like to get a kit without corrupting the file attributes during copy, ftp or download. I don't like to find out how to restore file attributes. Therefore, I like to get them ZIPped or DCXed 3) I like to get a kit in a format which I can unpack. I don't like to use other machines (eg. using a VAX to unpack a VAX kit) Therefore, I like to get them ZIPped (best with ZIPSFX). 4) I like to get kits every time in the same format. I don't like to use one method to handle some files (VMS ECOs) and another method to handle all other files (eg. layered products ECOs) Therfore, I like to get ZIPped .PCSI kits for all products. Is there a chance, that VMS engineering (ECO management) returns to packaged Kit Files ? .PCSI (or .PCSI$COMPRESSED) files, but zipped (ZIPSFX), instead of DCX/FTSV. Just like all other ECOs. Please, now, before too many news kits are around... -EPLAN PS: Does everybody know how to restore a .PCSI$COMPRESSED Kit after a VMS MOZILLA download ? I'm still trying... -- Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER Network and OpenVMS system specialist E-mail peter@langstoeger.at A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist ------------------------------ Date: 16 Feb 2005 08:18:28 -0800 From: JimStrehlow@data911.com Subject: Re: Thoughts about VMS ECOs now in .PCSI$COMPRESSED form Message-ID: <1108570708.301186.211760@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote: ... VMS ECOs are now no longer distributed via FTSV DCX compressed .PCSI kits. These kits are now in .PCSI$COMPRESSED format. ... I just downloaded my first .PCSI$COMPRESSED patch and supporting text file. I have a test AlphaServer that I allow FTP gets; so I downloaded it in binary form just fine. My complaint was that for the first such download, the accompanying text file had a misleading instruction in it which I reported to HP. An OpenVMS v7.3-1 patch said that it obsoleted a v7.3-2 patch. I check the FTP site about every two weeks or at least monthly for patches and revisions. The date when I download a patch works for me; but I understand your concerns. I would prefer ZIP format so that I can preserve the H.P. issue date. H.P., is there a reason why you avoid the ZIP format? Jim Strehlow, Database and OpenVMS Systems Administrator Alameda, CA, USA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 19:30:21 +0100 From: Didier MORANDI Subject: Re: VMS Group purchase process? Message-ID: <4213913D.592A730E@spam.com> next question is I do know of some Swiss Financers who are wondering about spending some money in the best operating system ever produced, mainly in this international security crisis... D. John Smith a *crit : > Didier Morandi wrote: > > A question: > > > > What could be a purchase process to see HP sell the VMS Group to > > someone else? > > > > Send a letter to the interim CEO and ask for a rendez-vous? > > Step 1: Have at least $2 billion in small unmarked bills before you call or > write. > > Next question? > > -- > OpenVMS - The classics never go out of style. -- Didier MORANDI - VMS Expert and SAP CRM Consultant 13 chemin du Gué - 1213 Petit-Lancy (GE) Switzerland Phone : +4179 8199735 - www.didiermorandi.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 19:41:34 +0100 From: Didier MORANDI Subject: Re: VMS Group purchase process? Message-ID: <421393DD.C69E346B@spam.com> Jean-François, I am not unknown to the VMS part of HP and I do have no credibility... So it was not my intention to go there by myself :-) D. JF Mezei a *crit : > > Didier Morandi wrote: > > > > A question: > > > > What could be a purchase process to see HP sell the VMS Group to someone > > else? > > > > Send a letter to the interim CEO and ask for a rendez-vous? > > You hire investment bankers, pay them the big bucks and they will then > contact HP with the offer. If you go there yourself, as an unknown you > will have no credibility. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Feb 2005 13:25:17 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Where do you get your News feed? Message-ID: <37gvttF5ehi15U1@individual.net> In article <37glmcF592gb5U1@individual.net>, Roy Omond writes: > Syltrem wrote: > >> For $2.95US per month you can have Forte newsgroups (look for APN service on >> their site) >> >> www.forteinc.com >> >> They are reliable. > > (This is another "Me too" re the News.Individual.Net announcement). > > $US 2.95 per *month* ? > > That doesn't compare very favourably with the 10 Euros per *year*, > and I consider the News.Individual.Net service to be 100% reliable. > > I'll be quite happy to pay my 10 Euros for a quality service. > I don't know the reason, but using a web browser at work rather than from home (could my ISP be doing something that caused it not to work?) resulted in success. I have happily paid my 10 Euros and will continue using the service, bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:40:11 +0100 From: Helmut Michels Subject: [ANN] Data Plotting Library DISLIN 8.3 Message-ID: I am pleased to announce version 8.3 of the data plotting software DISLIN. DISLIN is a high-level and easy to use plotting library for displaying data as curves, bar graphs, pie charts, 3D-colour plots, surfaces, contours and maps. Several output formats are supported such as X11, VGA, PostScript, PDF, CGM, WMF, HPGL, TIFF, GIF, PNG, BMP and SVG. The software is available for several C, Fortran 77 and Fortran 90 compilers. Plotting extensions for the interpreting languages Perl, Python and Java are also supported for the most operating systems. DISLIN distributions and manuals in PDF, PostScript and HTML format are available from the DISLIN home page http://www.dislin.de and via FTP from the server ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/grafik/dislin ------------------- Helmut Michels Max Planck Institute for Solar System Research Phone: +49 5556 979-334 Max-Planck-Str. 2 Fax : +49 5556 979-240 D-37191 Katlenburg-Lindau Mail : michels@linmpi.mpg.de ------------------------------ Date: 16 Feb 2005 07:31:03 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: [OT] Speed of light as speed limit (was Re: DECW$CLOCK design flaw Message-ID: In article <1108541475.cf40cce7dde912d82fdbb830a42d3249@teranews>, JF Mezei writes: > AEF wrote: >> always comes out right. Furthermore, physicists have accelerated >> particles to enormous energies in the lab. They have given particles >> such energies that would propel them to a thousand times the speed of >> light (and more) according to pre-relativistic (Newtonian) physics. > > But none have built a small "rocket" engine on the particle to give it > the ability to self-accelerate. > > Transfering energy from a stable location to one which is travelling at > nearly the speed of light is not the same as generating acceleration > from within the "thing" travelling at very very high speed. Right. It's not the same. And if you use a galilean transform to predict how it will work, you'll get the wrong answer. If you use the Lorentz transform, you get the right answer. > In a madison bike race (in a velodrome), it is a relay race where the > runner transfers his speed to the one taking the relay. (think about a > controlled collision between 2 bikesgoing different speeds). If the > "giver" is going at 50km/h and the "taker" is going at 30km/h, there is > a 20km/h difference and thus quite a bit of energy transfer when contact > is established and the take accereates as he receives the energy from > the giver. > But if the giver is going at 50kmh and the taker is going at 50kmh, then > the giver won't be able to give any additional energy to the taker so > the take won't be able to accelerate anymore. > > But that doesn't mean that each cyclist can't use his legs to accelerate > beyond 50km/h. You do know the formula for velocity addition in the relativistic regime, right? > So in your example, you are using devices capable of giving a limited > amount of speed. (lets say a powerful magnet). Once the particle has > attained the speed of the magnetic impulse that is pushing it, further > magnetic impulses will not accelerate it further, a bit like a sailboat > that is already going at the same speed as the wind. More wind at the > same speed won't accelerate it anymore. Bad analogy. Try this one instead. A particle in an accelerator is like a surfer riding a wave. There is no relativistic speed limit on the phase velocity of that magnetic wave. And it's not a magnetic wave. It's an electric field. Magnetism causes charged particles to change direction with no net change in speed. Electric fields cause charged particles to accelerate. We can pulse the fields at just the right rhythm so that the particle is always on the downward slope as it passes each acceleration point. Again, there is no relativistic speed limit on our ability to pulse these fields. We can do it at 10 times the speed of light if we like. But if we do, the particle won't keep up. John Briggs ------------------------------ Date: 16 Feb 2005 10:29:10 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: [OT] Speed of light as speed limit (was Re: DECW$CLOCK design flaw Message-ID: <+P235KDiWHeh@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <1108541475.cf40cce7dde912d82fdbb830a42d3249@teranews>, JF Mezei writes: > > But none have built a small "rocket" engine on the particle to give it > the ability to self-accelerate. > > Transfering energy from a stable location to one which is travelling at > nearly the speed of light is not the same as generating acceleration > from within the "thing" travelling at very very high speed. The laws of physics say it is. > In a madison bike race (in a velodrome), it is a relay race where the > runner transfers his speed to the one taking the relay. (think about a > controlled collision between 2 bikesgoing different speeds). If the > "giver" is going at 50km/h and the "taker" is going at 30km/h, there is > a 20km/h difference and thus quite a bit of energy transfer when contact > is established and the take accereates as he receives the energy from > the giver. Drafting has nothing to do with relativity, not even Gallilean relativity. If you could hold that race in a vacuum that energy transfer would go away. Particles inside an accelerator are always in the best vacuum that can be generated. > > So in your example, you are using devices capable of giving a limited > amount of speed. (lets say a powerful magnet). Once the particle has > attained the speed of the magnetic impulse that is pushing it, further > magnetic impulses will not accelerate it further, a bit like a sailboat > that is already going at the same speed as the wind. More wind at the > same speed won't accelerate it anymore. That's simply not true. The ability to exert force is not related to the speed of a pushing device. > So far , experiements have all been about particles accelerated by > stationary devices/magnets/whatever. A particle riding a wave produced > externally and thus limited by the speed of that wave. If that were relavent, the fact that the electromagentic pulse itself always travels at the speed of light and the particles are always going slower than the speed of light would defeat your argument anyhow. > If mass becomes infinite at the speed of light, then known quantity of > H2 you burn with O2 and propell out the back will also represent > infinite mass and provide infinite acceleration. You are seriously out of touch with the realities of relativity. Also, mathematically, when comparing infinties you must study the realtionship to see which values aproach infinity faster, then you can predict the behaviour of the realtionship. ------------------------------ Date: 15 Feb 2005 23:38:27 -0800 From: "AEF" Subject: [OT] Speed of light as speed limit (was Re: DECW$CLOCK design flaw !) Message-ID: <1108539507.530079.292820@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> J.F. Mezei posted... "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > Despite the very surprising spookiness of certain aspects of quantum > mechanics, I find the possibility of going backwards in time very > unlikely. [JF:] It used to be that people tough that you'd die if you exceeded 100mph. Then came steam locomotives who broke that barrier and nothing happened. Then came the time when people though you'd disintegrate when you broke the speed of sound. We broke it and people didn't disintegrate. There are 2 people going at 25 times the speed of sound right now at this very minute in the space station. [My response:] Yes, it's been a while, but for some reason it recently occurred to me that there is something here that needs to be cleared up. My apologies to those who are bothered by late follow-ups. OK. There have been these claims that are now obviously wrong. However, it's not like special relativity hasn't been well tested. It has, in fact, been tested over and over again to astonishing precision and it always comes out right. Furthermore, physicists have accelerated particles to enormous energies in the lab. They have given particles such energies that would propel them to a thousand times the speed of light (and more) according to pre-relativistic (Newtonian) physics. Yet, the speeds only approach the speed of light. So it's not like it hasn't been tried. And if we can't get even things as light as electrons to go faster than the speed of light, good luck with your space ship!!! So while the speed of light barrier is based on a very, very well established theory, the same can't be said for the 100mph and speed of sound statements quoted above. While this is not an exact proof, it does show that there is very, very little hope for exceeding the speed of light in vacuum. [JF:] Physical movement at some extreme speed may accelerate time relative to you (but your watch would still tick forward normally). But if it is the type of thing where it never quite gets to 0, then no matter how fast you go, it won't go negative. [My response...] Exceeding the speed of light, in fact, causes the gamma factor to go imaginary (as in the square root of minus one), not negative. And it is the type of thing that never quite gets to zero. [...] ------------------------------ Date: 16 Feb 2005 10:13:10 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: [OT] Speed of light as speed limit (was Re: DECW$CLOCK design flaw !) Message-ID: In article <1108539507.530079.292820@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" writes: > While this is not an exact proof, it does show that there is very, very > little hope for exceeding the speed of light in vacuum. There are (were?) experiments in quantum physics that indicated that the weak force may propogate at speeds in excess of the speed of light. There are theories in nucular physics that work out only if the strong force propogates faster than the speed of light. Of course either may be wrong (I'm not at the forefront of physics in the work I do). Since Einstein only considered electromagnetic and gravitational phenomena it should not suprise us if one of the other forces happens to have a propogation speed faster than electromagnetism. But since compounds are held together by eletromagnetic forces a spaceship would be constrained by c. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 03:23:38 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: [OT] Speed of light as speed limit (was Re: DECW$CLOCK design flaw !) !)!) Message-ID: <1108541475.cf40cce7dde912d82fdbb830a42d3249@teranews> AEF wrote: > always comes out right. Furthermore, physicists have accelerated > particles to enormous energies in the lab. They have given particles > such energies that would propel them to a thousand times the speed of > light (and more) according to pre-relativistic (Newtonian) physics. But none have built a small "rocket" engine on the particle to give it the ability to self-accelerate. Transfering energy from a stable location to one which is travelling at nearly the speed of light is not the same as generating acceleration from within the "thing" travelling at very very high speed. In a madison bike race (in a velodrome), it is a relay race where the runner transfers his speed to the one taking the relay. (think about a controlled collision between 2 bikesgoing different speeds). If the "giver" is going at 50km/h and the "taker" is going at 30km/h, there is a 20km/h difference and thus quite a bit of energy transfer when contact is established and the take accereates as he receives the energy from the giver. But if the giver is going at 50kmh and the taker is going at 50kmh, then the giver won't be able to give any additional energy to the taker so the take won't be able to accelerate anymore. But that doesn't mean that each cyclist can't use his legs to accelerate beyond 50km/h. (As a side note, in the 50/50 example, cyclists would still exchange energy because the giver would actually push the taker and thus slow down as much as he can while the receiver accelerates) And while from a spectator's point of view, this happens extremely fast and looks very scary, from the cyclist's point of view, the speeds ar not as high because they are relative to each other. So in your example, you are using devices capable of giving a limited amount of speed. (lets say a powerful magnet). Once the particle has attained the speed of the magnetic impulse that is pushing it, further magnetic impulses will not accelerate it further, a bit like a sailboat that is already going at the same speed as the wind. More wind at the same speed won't accelerate it anymore. Or, once a surfer has accelereated to a point where he has moved ahead of the wave, the wave won't accelerate him anymore until he slows down and lets the wave catch up to him. However, put a small motor on the surfboard and the surfer will be able to accelerate beyond the speed of the wave. So far , experiements have all been about particles accelerated by stationary devices/magnets/whatever. A particle riding a wave produced externally and thus limited by the speed of that wave. So basically, what the law states is that if you build a solar sail, the vehicle won't be able to go faster than the speed of the energy sent at the solar sail. But I don't believe that they have done any "engine on a particle" that would allow the particle to throw mass out to accelerate itself. (eg: ion engine, rocket engine etc). If mass becomes infinite at the speed of light, then known quantity of H2 you burn with O2 and propell out the back will also represent infinite mass and provide infinite acceleration. (relative to a stationary object, but on the space ship, it would still be the same masses to you, and the apple you pickup from the refrigirator would still be just as easy to move around inside the spaceship and wouldn't have an infinite mass relative to what your muscles can move. ). ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2005.094 ************************