INFO-VAX	Wed, 16 Feb 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 93

   Contents:
"SSH <command>" from .COM: FATAL: ssh_io_register_fd: fd 3 already registered!
Re: ANOUNCEMENT: zsplit, unzsplit: free linux tools to make a full drive image b
Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance
Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance
Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance
Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance
Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance
Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance
Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance
Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance
Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance
Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance
Re: DCL call to get shadow member status?
Re: DCL call to get shadow member status?
Re: DCL call to get shadow member status?
Re: DCL command to show number of interactive users
Re: DCL command to show number of interactive users
Re: DCL command to show number of interactive users
Re: DCL command to show number of interactive users
Re: DCL command to show number of interactive users
Re: DCL command to show number of interactive users
Re: DCL command to show number of interactive users
Re: DCL command to show number of interactive users
Re: Fixing Carly's Mess
Re: Fixing Carly's Mess
Re: Fixing Carly's Mess
Re: Fixing Carly's Mess
Re: Fixing Carly's Mess
Re: Fixing Carly's Mess
Re: grep on openVMS?
Re: grep on openVMS?
Guy Peleg: More wish list items
Re: IBM Linux and Universities
Re: LAN Failover
RE: LAN Failover
Re: Looking for suggestions for bootcamp sessions
Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP
Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP
Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP
Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP
Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP
Re: NFS mounts to Solaris Server
Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution
Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution
Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution
Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution
Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution
Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution
Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution
Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution
Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution
Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution
Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution
OT:  Where do you get your News feed?
Re: OT:  Where do you get your News feed?
Re: OT:  Where do you get your News feed?
Re: OT:  Where do you get your News feed?
Re: OT:  Where do you get your News feed?
pgp for vms
Re: pgp for vms
Re: pgp for vms
Quorum disk in EVA
Re: Quorum disk in EVA
Re: Quorum disk in EVA
Re: Quorum disk in EVA
rx5670 for $2K
Re: rx5670 for $2K
SONO A PRIX DISCOUNT
Re: Strange (to me) ACP lookup failure
Re: Superfluous Responses  WAS Re: DCL command to show number of
Superfluous Responses  WAS Re: DCL command to show number of interactive users
This Really Works!
This Really Works!
This Really Works!
Re: What universities (and the IT Branch) could be doing
Re: What universities (and the IT Branch) could be doing
Re: Where do you get your News feed?
Re: [O.T?] Strange (to me) ACP lookup failure

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 17:51:16 -0600 (CST)
From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)
Subject: "SSH <command>" from .COM: FATAL: ssh_io_register_fd: fd 3 already registered!
Message-ID: <05021517511642_2780027A@antinode.org>

   Sorry to interrupt the HP management discussions, but ...

   I complained about this a while ago, when I was running TCPIP V5.3,
but as it persisted after a TCPIP upgrade, I thought I'd re-whine. 
First, the preliminaries:

alp $ type %sh_test.com

ALP$DKA0:[SMS]RSH_TEST.COM;1

$ rsh alp "show default"

ALP$DKA0:[SMS]SSH_TEST.COM;1

$ ssh alp "show default"

alp $ tcpip show vers

  HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.4 - ECO 4
  on a AlphaStation 200 4/233 running OpenVMS V7.3-1

   Now for the real fun:

alp $ @ RSH_TEST.COM
  ALP$DKA0:[SMS]

alp $ @ SSH_TEST.COM
FATAL: ssh_io_register_fd: fd 3 already registered!

%TCPIP-F-SSH_FATAL, non-specific fatal error condition

   It sure would be handy if SSH worked as well as RSH in this
situation.  Interactively (not in a command procedure), SSH is happier,
although one could still whimper about the "Authentication successful."
clutter, and the fact that it hangs until the user hits the Any key:

alp $ ssh alp "show default"
Authentication successful.

  ALP$DKA0:[SMS]
[Hangs here until a key-press, then...]
alp $

   This is all better in TCPIP V5.5, right?

------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818
   382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org
   Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547

------------------------------

Date: 15 Feb 2005 14:40:49 -0800
From: jurij@device-image.de (jurij@device-image.de)
Subject: Re: ANOUNCEMENT: zsplit, unzsplit: free linux tools to make a full drive image b
Message-ID: <357c3f33.0502151440.4c9cf48a@posting.google.com>

vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann) wrote in message news:<4211c4d7$1@merkur.rz.uni-konstanz.de>...
> In article <357c3f33.0502150036.d20e051@posting.google.com>,
> jurij@device-image.de (jurij@device-image.de) writes:
> >Please visit the homepage of DeviceImage-Project:
> >http://www.device-image.de
> >
> >Disk images provide a powerful backup-restore solution and are exact
> >copies of your hard drive which are created by using low level byte by
> >byte copy operation. So even if your drive goes bad, you will still
> >have an entire copy of your system that you can restore.
> >
> >zsplit and unsplit are Linux utilities. 
> >zsplit is a command line imager, which allows you to create an exact
> >disk image. Finally it compresses the output image file and splits it
> >into chunks of defined size to fit exactly the size of storage media
> >(CD, DVD or HDD).
> >
> >unzsplit is a command line restore tool. It restores files produced by
> >zsplit to its origin, i.e. splitted and compressed image files will be
> >uncompressed, tied together and restored to the original device or
> >partition.
> >
> >Key Features :
> >
> >1. runs under GNU/Linux OS 
> >
> >2. creates images from FAT16, FAT16X, FAT32, FAT32X, NTFS (MS Windows-
> >95, -98, -Me, -NT4, -2000, -XP), Linux Ext2, Linux Ext3, ReiserFS and
> >Linux swap partitions.
> >
> >3. is able to create images from Very Large Files or devices (tested
> >with 200 Gygabyte devices)
> >
> >4. output image files can be compressed to various density (900 MiB
> >(megabyte binary) FAT32 partition can be compressed to 350 - 400 MB
> >and can be stored on one CD)
> >
> >5. output image file can be splitted into pieces of defined size
> >
> >6. in case of partially damaged devices, blocks and/or sectors safely
> >reads all remaining intact sectors
> >
> >7. supports non-seekable input and output (so you can use pipes for
> >stdin and/or stdout)
> >
> >Please visit the homepage of DeviceImage-Project:
> >http://www.device-image.de
> >
> 
> Jurij,
> 
> This program has no chance to run under OpenVMS.
> 
> There is a freeware program called DVDarchive/restore that does this job
> under OpenVMS.
> 
> If you use DVDwrite or cdrecord for OpenVMS in combination with the
> program mentioned above you have the complete suite to archive the same
> volume size of 200 GB you mentioned.
> 
> Eberhard
> 
> see: http://home.tiscali.de/dvd4openvms

Hi Eberhard,
thank you for the info !

Regards,
Jurij

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 02:48:03 +0800
From: prep@prep.synonet.com
Subject: Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance
Message-ID: <87oeelirrw.fsf@prep.synonet.com>

"Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> writes:

> We would like to establish to OpenVMS sites, each with their own SAN.
> We want the data to be replicated in real time.

> The 2 sites will be at each end of a big processing plant.

How do you define `big'? As moderatly large as Texas?

> Can someone give me pointers on how to setup the configuration?
> Ideally we would like the 2 VMS nodes in a VMScluster (not just as a
> failover option). Users could connect to either node, but if room A
> explodes, the computer in room B should continue to operate and
> serve users.  Of course users connected to the room A node, would
> have to reconnect.

Read the Cluster Config manuals in the doc set, at least twice! Second
time, take note and note questions.

> Diagram:

> AlphaVMS "A"             AlphaVMS "B"
>      |                                       |
>      |                                       |
> SAN "A"----------------SAN "B"

> If room A explodes, the link between the 2 SAN's is lost, but Room B
> continues to operate normally.

You need a link for the SAN, and a link for the cluster coms. Pulling
20 fibres costs almost no more that one. Having redundant likes that
go via *TOTALLY* different routes is a VERY good idea. Also going
for a 3 way config is easier. 

> How would the replication work? Will the 2 SAN do it between
> themselves (with VMS not really aware of the process)? That is my
> guess, as shown in the diagram.  With fiber optics, how far apart
> can the 2 sites be? (it will be within 1000 feet I believe but I
> don't have the shop plan).  Do I need another VMS box to get the
> quorum?

You set it up so all your disks are shadowed to at least two sites.
All writes go to all members all the time. Nuke one room, and
<configurable number> of secs later you are still running with NO data
loss. There are several ways you can configure the systems, depending
on what you priorities are. 1000' is a dodle, 1000 miles is more
interesting. 

> Any pointers to documentation, or your comments about known
> installations, are welcome.

Curtin Uni used to have a cluster of Alphas and Vaxen. One weekend,
power to one computer room dropped, and no one noticed. Well, almost
no one. 

Remember, measure twice, cut once! ;)

You need to do a lot of work on how you are going to distribute
your SW, how it will failover, and on and on. Also consider how
you would be if plant engineering wants to rip out the power to
one of your computer rooms and improve it, etc...

A big issue is how do you backup your data so it can be restored
in a usefull way. RDB helps here.

I can point you to some people who have run plants this way.
-- 
Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,
+61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.
                                             West Australia 6076
comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot
Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.
EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 14:17:03 -0500
From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance
Message-ID: <AUrQd.3008$df.109670@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>

Hi

Thanks for your input on this.
As for the location of the 2 sites, I know it's not ideal but I'm not the
decision maker. Just trying to help them build a workable environment.

I will put together some notes based on the comments I get and the
documentation/presentations suggested by all who respond.

My main concern now is now more with the quorum question.
Here I have what I believe is 3 voting members: 2 Alphas and one quorum
disk.
If I lose one Alpha I still have quorums all is well. But the same cannot be
made with the other config.
I'll read some more on this (hopefully there is some info in the proposed
links in this thread). Mayhap they will need a 3rd site.

About users needing to reconnect: the software used will not be fault
tolerant in this way. We will not invest on this and this problem is known
and understood.

Regards,

-- 
Syltrem

OpenVMS 7.3-1 + Oracle 8.1.7.4
http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site, en français)
---zulu is not in my email address---

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 14:22:51 -0500
From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance
Message-ID: <37f0geF5ap6dkU1@individual.net>

Syltrem wrote:
>...
> My main concern now is now more with the quorum question.
> Here I have what I believe is 3 voting members: 2 Alphas and one
> quorum disk.
> If I lose one Alpha I still have quorums all is well. But the same
> cannot be made with the other config.
> I'll read some more on this (hopefully there is some info in the
> proposed links in this thread). Mayhap they will need a 3rd site.
> ...

You do need a third site, but any old VMS box (VAX, Alpha, IA64) will do
as long as you have a Cluster license on it.

-- 
Peter Weaver
Weaver Consulting Services Inc.
Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX
www.weaverconsulting.ca

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 19:58:15 GMT
From: "Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance
Message-ID: <rvsQd.314$DC6.202@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>

A quorum disk can only exist at one location.  If one node and your quorum
disk "mysteriously vaporize" your other node will not have quorum.  For the
seamless fail over you describe you probably want a third site, which can be
a low end system, DS10 or XP1000 for example to provide quorum.

Another option, if you can stand the service interruption, is using
Availablity Manager/AMDS to manually force quorum to be recalcuated "on the
fly."  If you do this, you need to be absolutely sure the other site is down
before using this option, and work out how the down site wil lbe restored to
service.  You don't ever want to create a partioned cluster, or process on
one stand alone site, then process on the other stand alone site then try to
restore both sites.

-- 


Andy Bustamante
Remove the ASCII 95s for e-mail


"Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> wrote in message
news:AUrQd.3008$df.109670@tor-nn1.netcom.ca...
> Hi
>
> Thanks for your input on this.
> As for the location of the 2 sites, I know it's not ideal but I'm not the
> decision maker. Just trying to help them build a workable environment.
>
> I will put together some notes based on the comments I get and the
> documentation/presentations suggested by all who respond.
>
> My main concern now is now more with the quorum question.
> Here I have what I believe is 3 voting members: 2 Alphas and one quorum
> disk.
> If I lose one Alpha I still have quorums all is well. But the same cannot
be
> made with the other config.
> I'll read some more on this (hopefully there is some info in the proposed
> links in this thread). Mayhap they will need a 3rd site.
>
> About users needing to reconnect: the software used will not be fault
> tolerant in this way. We will not invest on this and this problem is known
> and understood.
>
> Regards,
>
> -- 
> Syltrem
>
> OpenVMS 7.3-1 + Oracle 8.1.7.4
> http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site, en français)
> ---zulu is not in my email address---
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 22:17:11 +0100
From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>
Subject: Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance
Message-ID: <37f76nF5d147rU1@individual.net>

prep@prep.synonet.com wrote:

> 
> You need a link for the SAN, and a link for the cluster coms. Pulling
> 20 fibres costs almost no more that one. Having redundant likes that
> go via *TOTALLY* different routes is a VERY good idea. Also going
> for a 3 way config is easier. 
> 

And bundling spare cables into the installation provides for future 
expansion at little cost.

You should also plan cable routes to avoid hazardous areas (e.g. fire 
risks asscociated with kitchens, fuel lines etc). Fork lift trucks can 
also be dangerous; at one place I worked a fork lift had apparently 
crashed into a wall and taken a load of cabling out as a result.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:43:18 -0500
From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>
Subject: Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance
Message-ID: <1108503095.ba8eabbf9de997039cfb38d32d05fb69@teranews>

Syltrem wrote:
> Can someone give me pointers on how to setup the configuration?
> Ideally we would like the 2 VMS nodes in a VMScluster (not just as a
> failover option). Users could connect to either node, but if room A
> explodes, the computer in room B should continue to operate and serve users.
> Of course users connected to the room A node, would have to reconnect.

With only 2 nodes, you need a third "node" for quorum. This can be a
quorum disk. However, in your scenario,  you need to consider the case
where terrorists use a  backhoe to cut the cables between the 2 rooms.
(are backhoes used for anything else but cut telecom wires ???? :-)

You then end up with 2 working VMS nodes with each node thinking it is
the other node that failed. And this is very very bad and the whole
point or quorum.

You will need someone to tell the surviving node that it has quorum by
manually advisting its votes and or quorum.

> Diagram:
> 
> AlphaVMS "A"             AlphaVMS "B"
>      |                      |
>      |                      |
> SAN "A"----------------SAN "B"


You need to consider also what happens when the connection is
re-established. If you rely on the SANs to do the volume shadowing, make
damned sure that the SANs have a way to know which of the drives acts as
the source and which acts as target of the coipy/merge/update operation
to bring the drives back into sync.

With the VMS host based shadowing, this is part of the clustering since
quorum will freeze one machine, the drives controlled by that machine
will be "older" than the drives controlled by the surviving node so when
they are reconnected, VMS knows exactly which one disk is the live copy
and which one is older.

If  you rely on the SANs, you need to make damned sure that the SANs
have the same exact quorum scheme to ensure that a SAN unit goes down at
the exact same moment as the VMS node next to it.

Again, you need to look at all possible failure modes. For instance, if
you use ethernet for SCS traffic, and fibre for the SAN stuff, consider
what happens when either of the two becomes inop, consider if the
ethernet card on one VMS machine goes and all the impact it has on not
only SCS traffic, but also LAT, TCPIP etc.

> With fiber optics, how far apart can the 2 sites be? (it will be within 1000
> feet I believe but I don't have the shop plan).

With fibre, 1000 feet is peanuts.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 17:22:55 -0500
From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>
Subject: Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance
Message-ID: <1108505466.43ac4beba01c6b556d8817d32778c432@teranews>

Syltrem wrote:
> Here I have what I believe is 3 voting members: 2 Alphas and one quorum
> disk.

Can anyone confirm whether quorum disks can be on shadowed sets ?

If the backhoe cuts the wires between the 2 rooms, will your 2 now
independant nodes still think they have access to the quorum disk sicne
each SAN unit will have its copy that is still locally accessible ?


I'd say you need 3 computers in 3 rooms with 3 links.  A-B, B-C, C-A.
You can have your SANs in A and B. C then acts as your quorum and allows
the VMS nodes to automatically decide which part of the cluster can
safely continue to operate.

C can be a workstation that acts as a glorified operator console with
decterms opened on each of the 2 nodes with opcom messages etc.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 14:41:49 -0800
From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com>
Subject: Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance
Message-ID: <cuttrd$5jc$2@news01.intel.com>

JF Mezei wrote:

> Syltrem wrote:
> 
>>Here I have what I believe is 3 voting members: 2 Alphas and one quorum
>>disk.
> 
> 
> Can anyone confirm whether quorum disks can be on shadowed sets ?

Yes.  A quorum disk CANNOT be a shadow set.  The reason should
be (semi-)obvious.

     -Ken
-- 
I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...

Ken Fairfield
D1C Automation VMS System Support
who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield
where: intel dot com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 00:53:22 GMT
From: Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance
Message-ID: <6QwQd.124$GZ6.69@news.cpqcorp.net>

JF Mezei wrote:
> Can anyone confirm whether quorum disks can be on shadowed sets ?
>
> If the backhoe cuts the wires between the 2 rooms, will your 2 now
> independant nodes still think they have access to the quorum disk sicne
> each SAN unit will have its copy that is still locally accessible ?

It is for precisely the sort of scenario you present here that a 
shadowset cannot be used for a quorum disk. And why the VMS SPD 
prohibits trying to use multiple quorum disks (different values of the 
SYSGEN parameter DISK_QUORUM on different nodes in the cluster).

> I'd say you need 3 computers in 3 rooms with 3 links.

That's certainly the nicest solution, and in this case, not 
cost-prohibitive thanks to everything being so close together and with 
right-of-way available to pull fiber-optic cables readily.

In the general case, I'd say look at your Recovery Time Objective (RTO), 
which measures the amount of downtime that is acceptable to your 
application. If allowable downtime is only a few seconds to a minute or 
so, then you need a tie-breaking node (or quorum disk, but a node is 
better) at a 3rd location (which could be a 3rd room within the same 
building, too, if you must). If your RTO is flexible enough to have, 
say, 5-10 minutes of downtime, then using Availability Manager or 
DECamds to manually restore quorum at the surviving site should be 
acceptable, and you could go with a 2-site, equal-votes scheme.

Note that HP sells a package called Disaster Tolerant Cluster Services 
that is intended to help customers plan, design, implement, and learn 
how to operate disaster-tolerant clusters. See 
http://h20219.www2.hp.com/services/cache/10597-0-0-225-121.aspx
DTCS includes a quorum adjustment tool as part of its excellent set of 
disaster-tolerant cluster monitoring and management capabilities.

Another alternative software package for DT cluster 
management/monitoring/control is CockpitMgr. See 
http://www.hp.be/cockpitmgr and 
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/journal/v1/mgclus.pdf

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:28:16 -0500
From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>
Subject: Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance
Message-ID: <1108516581.544c770eb24395bf76dee53f3b987f95@teranews>

Keith Parris wrote:
> say, 5-10 minutes of downtime, then using Availability Manager or
> DECamds to manually restore quorum at the surviving site should be
> acceptable, and you could go with a 2-site, equal-votes scheme.

Or you can have one node with 2 votes and one with 1.

 50% of chances that failure will result in uninterrupted service. (i.e.
if the earthquake ont strikes the side with the 1 vote node.  And if the
2 vote node goes down, you can just reboot the other node into SYSBOOT>
change its votes to 3 and then continue the boot.

I think that on VAXes, you can type <CTRL-P> at the console to get a
chance at readjusting quorum on a node that is currently hung due to
loss of quorum.  Does this work on Alphas as well ?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 14:15:36 -0800
From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com>
Subject: Re: DCL call to get shadow member status?
Message-ID: <cutsa9$59o$1@news01.intel.com>

John Santos wrote:
[big snip]
> 
> In a log (batch log or @com/output= log), or if DCL verify is enabled,
> 
>      $ MBRSTAT = F$GETDDVI("''DSKMBR'", "EXISTS")
> 
> displays the value of DSKMBR in the log, which is sometimes useful.

    Indeed it does and I have no argument with that.  OTOH, the
question was the use of ''DSKMBR' outside of string context.
What you show above is within a string.  Correct, but not relevant
to Bart's query.

> On the other hand
> 
>      $ MBRSTAT = F$GETDDVI(DSKMBR, "EXISTS")
> 
> makes it clear that the command file is using a symbol for the device
> name, and what that symbol is, which might make debugging the command
> file easier.
> 
> In either case, F$GETDDVI is a typo - the correct lexical is F$GETDVI.

     Yep, I surely fat-fingered that one. ;-p  But here's yet another
example of (current) DCL "parsing only as far as the 4th character
of a verb", if you allow me to extend the analogy to lexical
functions.  F$GETDXYZZY works equally as well as F$GETDVI, much as
LOGOMETRICAL works just as well as LOGOFF, which works just as well
as the actual verb, LOGOUT.  :-)

     -Ken
-- 
I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...

Ken Fairfield
D1C Automation VMS System Support
who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield
where: intel dot com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 00:02:57 +0100
From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>
Subject: Re: DCL call to get shadow member status?
Message-ID: <37fdd2F5e094gU1@individual.net>

Ken Fairfield wrote:

> John Santos wrote:
> [big snip]
> 
>>
>> In a log (batch log or @com/output= log), or if DCL verify is enabled,
>>
>>      $ MBRSTAT = F$GETDDVI("''DSKMBR'", "EXISTS")
>>
>> displays the value of DSKMBR in the log, which is sometimes useful.
> 
> 
>    Indeed it does and I have no argument with that.  OTOH, the
> question was the use of ''DSKMBR' outside of string context.
> What you show above is within a string.  Correct, but not relevant
> to Bart's query.
> 
>> On the other hand
>>
>>      $ MBRSTAT = F$GETDDVI(DSKMBR, "EXISTS")
>>
>> makes it clear that the command file is using a symbol for the device
>> name, and what that symbol is, which might make debugging the command
>> file easier.
>>
>> In either case, F$GETDDVI is a typo - the correct lexical is F$GETDVI.
> 
> 
>     Yep, I surely fat-fingered that one. ;-p  But here's yet another
> example of (current) DCL "parsing only as far as the 4th character
> of a verb", if you allow me to extend the analogy to lexical
> functions.  F$GETDXYZZY works equally as well as F$GETDVI, much as
> LOGOMETRICAL works just as well as LOGOFF, which works just as well
> as the actual verb, LOGOUT.  :-)
> 

With the following twist:

In SYLOGIN.COM:

$ LOG*OUT == @SYS£MANAGER:LOGOUT

Then LOG, LOGO, LOGOU, LOGOUT will execute the command file.

LOGOFF can be used to bypass the execution of the command file (useful 
if it's log-winded).

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:49:55 -0800
From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com>
Subject: Re: DCL call to get shadow member status?
Message-ID: <cuu5bj$9ue$1@news01.intel.com>

Paul Sture wrote:

> Ken Fairfield wrote:
[...]
>>     Yep, I surely fat-fingered that one. ;-p  But here's yet another
>> example of (current) DCL "parsing only as far as the 4th character
>> of a verb", if you allow me to extend the analogy to lexical
>> functions.  F$GETDXYZZY works equally as well as F$GETDVI, much as
>> LOGOMETRICAL works just as well as LOGOFF, which works just as well
>> as the actual verb, LOGOUT.  :-)
>>
> 
> With the following twist:
> 
> In SYLOGIN.COM:
> 
> $ LOG*OUT == @SYS£MANAGER:LOGOUT
> 
> Then LOG, LOGO, LOGOU, LOGOUT will execute the command file.
> 
> LOGOFF can be used to bypass the execution of the command file (useful 
> if it's log-winded).

     But I was referring to VERBs.  Here you've brought in DCL symbol
processing.  You're correct, of course, but I wouldn't call it a
"twist".  I'd prefer to call it the, "VMS expert's secret weapon to
defeat clueless users' symbols". :-) :-)

     -Ken
-- 
I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...

Ken Fairfield
D1C Automation VMS System Support
who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield
where: intel dot com

------------------------------

Date: 15 Feb 2005 13:22:53 -0600
From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)
Subject: Re: DCL command to show number of interactive users
Message-ID: <imiZFN$2$ktQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>

In article <1108490878.054003.175460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, bob@instantwhip.com writes:
> wrong, wrong ... I don't want to have to parse
> output but do a system call to retrieve a number
                  ^^^^^^^^^^^

If you are doing it from within a program, just read SYS$GL_IJOBCNT.

> into a symbol ... 
> 

Simon.

-- 
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       
Microsoft: The Standard Oil Company of the 21st century

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:13:10 GMT
From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG
Subject: Re: DCL command to show number of interactive users
Message-ID: <00A3F6F9.52FF1DBD@SendSpamHere.ORG>

In article <imiZFN$2$ktQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:
>In article <1108490878.054003.175460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, bob@instantwhip.com writes:
>> wrong, wrong ... I don't want to have to parse
>> output but do a system call to retrieve a number
>                  ^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>If you are doing it from within a program, just read SYS$GL_IJOBCNT.
>
>> into a symbol ... 
>> 
>
>Simon.

Install SYMBOL from http://www.tmesis.com/symbol/

Then:

$ symbol/set/executive SYS$GL_IJOBCNT
$ write sys$output "''F$fao("Number of interactive users is: !@SL",SYS$GL_IJOBCNT)'"

-- 
http://www.ProvN.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system security
                      solutions that others only claim to be.
-- 
Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.:
  The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software product! 
-- 
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

------------------------------

Date: 15 Feb 2005 14:51:51 -0600
From: briggs@encompasserve.org
Subject: Re: DCL command to show number of interactive users
Message-ID: <pz8CGLFLWiIv@eisner.encompasserve.org>

In article <1108490878.054003.175460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, bob@instantwhip.com writes:
> wrong, wrong ... I don't want to have to parse
> output but do a system call to retrieve a number
> into a symbol ... 

$ CREATE TEST.FOR
	options         /extend_source
        implicit        none

        external        sys$gl_ijobcnt
        integer         value_at

        type *, value_at ( sys$gl_ijobcnt )

        end

        integer function value_at ( location )

        integer         location
        value_at = location

        end
$ LINK TEST /SYSEXE
$ RUN TEST

Or, if you don't have Fortran...

$ CREATE TEST.MAR
        .psect  data    quad,wrt,noexe
fao_ctrstr:
        .ascid  /!UL/
buffer: .blkb   10
buffer_l = .-buffer

        .align quad
out_descr:
        .long   buffer_l
        .address buffer

        .psect  code    nowrt,exe
        .entry  main,^m<>
        pushl   g^sys$gl_ijobcnt
        pushaq  out_descr
        pushaw  out_descr
        pushaq  fao_ctrstr
        calls   #4,g^sys$fao
        blbs    r0,10$
        ret
10$:
        pushaq  out_descr
        calls   #1,g^lib$put_output
        ret
        .end    main
$ LINK TEST /SYSEXE
$ RUN TEST

You asked for a system call.  Forgive me if I simply peek into the relevant
cell instead.

	John Briggs

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 17:01:17 -0500
From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>
Subject: Re: DCL command to show number of interactive users
Message-ID: <1108504167.344ec7d1b307028fc83263021d4e124e@teranews>

bob@instantwhip.com wrote:
> 
> wrong, wrong ... I don't want to have to parse
> output but do a system call to retrieve a number
> into a symbol ...

You could do a loop with F$GETJPI to extract all interactive processes
and count them yourself.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 14:19:57 -0800
From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com>
Subject: Re: DCL command to show number of interactive users
Message-ID: <cutsid$59o$2@news01.intel.com>

bob@instantwhip.com wrote:

> wrong, wrong ... I don't want to have to parse
> output but do a system call to retrieve a number
> into a symbol ... 
> 
> $ ?

    $ iusers = F$GetSyi("IJOBLIM")

Looks like the rest of you folks need to go back for a
DCL refresher course...  :-)

	-Ken
-- 
I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...

Ken Fairfield
D1C Automation VMS System Support
who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield
where: intel dot com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 15:49:56 -0800
From: Z <Z@no.spam>
Subject: Re: DCL command to show number of interactive users
Message-ID: <SZvQd.7308$Jf5.3771@fe03.lga>

Ken Fairfield wrote:
>    $ iusers = F$GetSyi("IJOBLIM")

Nope:

$ sh us/full
       OpenVMS User Processes at 15-FEB-2005 18:48:02.46
     Total number of users = 22,  number of processes = 28
...
$ iusers = F$GetSyi("IJOBLIM")
$ sh sym iusers
   IUSERS = 256   Hex = 00000100  Octal = 00000000400
$

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:26:40 -0500
From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>
Subject: Re: DCL command to show number of interactive users
Message-ID: <11157poo0cams46@corp.supernews.com>

Ken Fairfield wrote:
> bob@instantwhip.com wrote:
> 
>> wrong, wrong ... I don't want to have to parse
>> output but do a system call to retrieve a number
>> into a symbol ...
>> $ ?
> 
> 
>    $ iusers = F$GetSyi("IJOBLIM")
> 
> Looks like the rest of you folks need to go back for a
> DCL refresher course...  :-)
> 
>     -Ken

Uh Uh Ken, he wants the currently logged in interactive users, not the 
authorized number of interactive users specified in IJOBLIM.

I didn't think that looked right, and went into help, VAX/VMS V7.2, and 
didn't immediately find that item code.  Further reading showed:

          You can also specify any of the system parameters listed in the
          OpenVMS System Management Utilities Reference Manual.

You get used to looking for what you want to see, and forget to actually 
read the text.  :-)

Dave

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 02:01:00 GMT
From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG
Subject: Re: DCL command to show number of interactive users
Message-ID: <00A3F729.EA87705E@SendSpamHere.ORG>

In article <cutsid$59o$2@news01.intel.com>, Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com> writes:
>bob@instantwhip.com wrote:
>
>> wrong, wrong ... I don't want to have to parse
>> output but do a system call to retrieve a number
>> into a symbol ... 
>> 
>> $ ?
>
>    $ iusers = F$GetSyi("IJOBLIM")
>
>Looks like the rest of you folks need to go back for a
>DCL refresher course...  :-)

This returns the interactive job limit Ken, not the current interactive
count!

$ set login
%SET-I-INTSET, login interactive limit = 64, current interactive value = 7
$ write sys$output "''F$getsyi("ijobcnt")'"
64

Note, it's not 7.

-- 
http://www.ProvN.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system security
                      solutions that others only claim to be.
-- 
Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.:
  The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software product! 
-- 
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

------------------------------

Date: 15 Feb 2005 13:04:51 -0800
From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fixing Carly's Mess
Message-ID: <1108501491.161880.101990@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>

Bill Gunshannon wrote:

>
> Gee, thanks.  Now I really feel old!!!!
>

Sorry!  Wasn't my intent. ;-)

> >              so what I know of this era came from reading the
> > periodicals of that time - Byte, Dr. Dobbs Journal (The Tiny Basic
one,
> > precursor to the current magazine), People's Computer Company,
> > Kilobyte/Kilobaud, Creative Computing, etc.
>

I think I was the only kid in town that didn't buy a car with the money
from my after-school job.  Instead I bought bits and bytes from Bill
Godbout, the Digital Group, SWTPC and others.  When I built my computer
the monitor was a 12" B&W TV stuffed inside a surplus VT52 case.  I
wish I had a picture of that case with the antenna sticking out the
top!

> Actually, Tiny Basic started in PCC.  Dr. Dobb's Journal of Computer
> Calisthenics and Orthodontia came about to publish the next version.
> I miss most of those magazines.  Currently, Dr. Dobbs is the only
> one I still read.
>

I still love the slogan from Dr. Dobbs's. "Running light without
overbyte". I've still got the bound reprints of Vol's I & II.  No
bloatware there!


> >
> >> It wasn't his technical prowess that got MS started, it was his
> >> mother's contacts at IBM.
> >
> > IBM didn't enter the personal computer world until 1981(ish).
Microsoft
> > had been producing BASIC for several companies since 1977/78.  It
> > certainly is possible that his mother's contacts got Microsoft the
> > foothold that enabled it to license IBM the DOS O/S that Microsoft
had
> > bought from Seattle Computer Products but Microsoft was a going
concern
> > long before that.
>
> They would have been eaten alive by companies like Digital Research
if
> it were not for the IBM deal that, like MS today, was not based on
any
> concept of technical superiority or even competence.
>

I do sorta miss CP/M.  At least until I log onto my VMS machine... :-D

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:25:50 -0500
From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>
Subject: Re: Fixing Carly's Mess
Message-ID: <1108502043.b571795b244699463d46df2ca81c3d2b@teranews>

Neil Rieck wrote:
> I've been thinking a lot lately about "Carly's Mess" and have come to the
> conclusion that it wasn't entirely her fault. 

I tend to agree with many articles I have read in the past few days that
essentially say that while she is a great salesperson and motivations
speaker (does she have a trailer down by the river ?), she isn't a great
leader and operations expert. In fact, she was put in her CEO job
without experience in operations.

It is her fault in the sense that she sold herself as CEO material when
she wasn't yet ready.

It isn't well documented if her initial appointment at HP was unanimous
or controversial within the board.  But I do know that they hired a team
of physchologists to study whether she would be CEO material and how she
would fit within the HP Way. Carly had read up the books about HP and
knew how to answer all those questions.

Remember that prior to her announcing the Compaq purchase, her CEO
skills were already in question. The Compaq deal just bought her another
3 years of goodwill from the press and Board.

There was criticisms of her leading the glorious CEO life in the
limelight, going to Davos, helping Bush integrate Homeland Security,
participating in hos commitee for the "going to Mars" project etc
intstead of spending time at the employee cafeteria like the founders
had done to stay in touch with their company.

I think the board valued Carly's ability to garner media attention, and
that is a valuable asset. But they also realised she wasn't that great
in managing the company, and hence their desire to hire a COO. 

The fact that she steadfastedly refused to allow HP to hire a COO is
100% her fault.  Had they hired a COO, she could have continued to do
what she was good at (public side of the CEO) while the COO was busy
fixing up the company.

She will make a good politician.

> First off, she was put into
> that position by a board of directors who seemed to be going in a different
> direction than that of the founding families.

We don't know what the board of directors wanted. Was it Carly who lead
the board or the other way around ?  Remember that prior to her arrival,
HP wasn't doing great either.

> On top of that, there have been articles lately proclaiming her to be the
> worst CEO ever. How soon we forget about Nortel, Global Crossing, 360
> Networks, Enron, WorldCom and others.

Nortel is just plain stupidity, and in fact, you could blame this on
Wall Street who distributed money left and right aollowing companies to
buy others like there was no limit or need to be profitable. Nortel is
one of the more visible ones because it was a real business, as opposed
to things like "Dr Koop dot Com" which was just the former surgeon
general of the USA cashing in on the .com frienzy with an IPO that made
him a lot of money, but whose company had 0 chance of surviving.

Enron and Worldcom are issues of lying and falsifying books. Also
remember that Worlcom was just some tiny virtual long distance company
that found a way to finance the purchse a real brick and mortal long
distance company (MCI) and bought a lot more smaller virtual long
distance companies. At one point they had some 150 different billing
systems, now they are supposedly down to 60 (atr least Curly is a good
accountant). Worldcom didn't grow, they used free wall street money to acquire.

> Many of Carly's actions (or inactions)
> may have seemed criminal to this newsgroup but she won't be going to jail
> for doing anything illegal.

That is a very fair point. Although think of the media frienzy if she
had gone to jail at the same time as Martha Stewart :-) :-)

> run any company. Well, HP is a technical company and should be directly run
> by technical people taking advice from financial people. 

Having just read Gerstner' book, I will disagree. A CEO needs to be a
LEADER who is surrounded by reliable/trustable people in various areas
of expertise. With the right information, he then formulates the big
picture plan and uses his leadership skills to communicate the plan down
to all workers. 

At the other extreme, you have Steve Jobs who is not only a leader, but
also a technological visionary and a risk taker. His predecessors failed
Apple because they were conservative accountants unwilling to take
risks. And they had ousted Jobs because he took risks.

The problem with the conservative acocuntants is that they wouldn't ramp
up production BEFORE demand materialised, and by the time demand
materialised, customers were simply told that they'd have to wait X
weeks to get their MAC and they went elsewhere. By the time they did
ramp up production, demand was gone and the product wasn't hot anymore,
so Apple was stuck with unsold inventories.

The problem with a company such as HP is that it is hard to tell whether
they should hire a Gerstner or a Jobs. HP is big enough that it may need
a Gerstner. On the other hand, it has sufficient consumer products that
it may need a Steve Jobs.


> Take a look around
> at the currently successful technical companies and you'll see that a
> technical guy is sitting at the top. Here are a few examples from my short
> list:
> 
> Microsoft

Bill gates may look like a computer geek, but he isn't. He is in marketing.

> On the flip side, both DEC and Lotus (and others) started to go down for the
> count almost as soon as the technical guy was replaced by a financial guy.

For DEC, I disagree. It started to go down under Olsen. It started to go
down when DEC grew too much and hired folks from IBM etc who tainted
DEC's culture and made DEC think it was invincible and so desirable that
it could charge anything for its products and that its only competition
was IBM who charged even more than DEC.


Palmer didn't start the downfall. He just accelerated it instead of
turning DEC around. Carly was more neutral at HP. She didn't wound it
mortally. And she didn't go begging to be purchased.

It s ironic that Carly got out without mortally wounding HP, but she is
getting a lot of criticism, while both Palmer and Capellas got out by
mortally wounding their companies and finding a buyer and are seen as
saviours for their companies. That is not fair.

Curly presided over the demise of Compaq. He in fact instituted it and
got investment bankers to find a buyer for Comapq because he knew he
just couldn't turn it around and didn't want to admit he was incompetant.

I give Carly higher grade than Curly and Palmer based on that. She left
HP in far better shape that Curly left Compaq and Palmer left Digital
since the later two killed their company.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:47:18 -0500
From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>
Subject: Re: Fixing Carly's Mess
Message-ID: <1108503329.4da70c2a5cb38afa4bbfe567f69e054d@teranews>

"Main, Kerry" wrote:
> Course, Lou Gerstner is a good example. He was a cookie company CEO
> before IBM, but he understood Customers very well.

He worked for 3 companies:

Some high priced consulting firm
American Express
RJR Nabisco (and saw the mistake in the merging of Nabisco with tobacco).

At Amex, he also had contacts with IBM as a customer.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 17:02:36 -0500
From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>
Subject: Re: Fixing Carly's Mess
Message-ID: <1114rr2egf4905d@corp.supernews.com>

johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com wrote:
> Beach Runner wrote:
> 
> 
>>>What technical guy is sitting at the head of Microsoft?  Surely you
>>>don't mean Gates?
>>
>>
>>See the movie Pirates of Silicon Valley.  As a young MIT student, he
>>wrote a quick OS for an early computer. He is both technical and
> 
> really
> 
>>understands marketing and is a great futurist.
>>
> 
> 
> Actually Bill Gates went to Havard.  What he wrote (or had a hand in
> writing) was a version of BASIC for the MITS Altair 8800 computer.  I
> would say he's fairly technical and certainly quite intelligent and
> obviously great at marketing.  The rest I have no comment on.
> 
>   John H. Reinhardt
> 

I seem to recall, but, it's been a LONG time, that the people at 
Microsoft were using PDP-10 systems with cross compilers for their 
development of software for the early microprocessors.  (Or was it the 
CP/M people?)  Pretty sure it was Microsoft.

Dave

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 00:56:35 GMT
From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing)
Subject: Re: Fixing Carly's Mess
Message-ID: <00A3F707.C590A98B@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

In article <Z%oQd.41697$pc5.17014@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>, Beach Runner <bob@nospam.com> writes:

>> 
>> What technical guy is sitting at the head of Microsoft?  Surely you
>> don't mean Gates?
>
>
>See the movie Pirates of Silicon Valley.  As a young MIT student, he 
>wrote a quick OS for an early computer. He is both technical and really
>understands marketing and is a great futurist.

More relevantly than the movie, there's a book called "Programmers at Work."
One of the appendices is the commented data specification for that MITS BASIC
interpreter he wrote.  There's none of the actual executable code, but you 
don't need to see it - the design is extremely clear.  (Unbelievably simple -
all the BASIC variables are preallocated - but clear.)

As to being a great futurist, I don't know.  The big achievement with Microsoft
vis-a-vis the Internet was being able to turn the company around on a dime and
bring Internet-awareness (however compromised, however virus-laden) to most of
the product line in a short time.  But he let the importance of the Web and the
Net sneak up on him.


-- Alan

------------------------------

Date: 15 Feb 2005 19:20:52 -0600
From: kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)
Subject: Re: Fixing Carly's Mess
Message-ID: <kt1+WPb3SuJy@eisner.encompasserve.org>

In article <Z%oQd.41697$pc5.17014@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>, Beach Runner <bob@nospam.com> writes:
> 
> 
> Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>> In article <0UkQd.4730$dZ.242019@news20.bellglobal.com>,
>> 	"Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes:
>> 
>>>"Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message 
>>>news:fAcTYawA8wPb@eisner.encompasserve.org...
>>>
>>>>In article <2A1Qd.56210$uL5.19835@fe2.texas.rr.com>, 
>>>>LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) writes:
>>>>
>>>>>   http://www.business2.com/b2/web/articles/0,17863,1026920,00.html
>>>>>   Business 2.0 :: Online Article :: Working Tech :: Fixing Carly's Mess
>>>>>
>>>>>  "Fixing Carly's Mess
>>>>>   By Owen Thomas,  February 10, 2005
>>>>>
>>>>>   [snip]
>>>>>
>>>>>   HP's high-end server lines, like Integrity and NonStop, have suffered
>>>>>   from years of neglect. Some recent moves, like revamping the Integrity
>>>>>   line and extending support for the VMS operating system, have pointed
>>>>>   in the right direction. More of the same -- much more -- is needed..."
>>>>
>>>>Yes, of Carly had been coding instead of all that other stuff the port
>>>>would have gone a lot quicker.
>>>
>>>I've been thinking a lot lately about "Carly's Mess" and have come to the 
>>>conclusion that it wasn't entirely her fault. First off, she was put into 
>>>that position by a board of directors who seemed to be going in a different 
>>>direction than that of the founding families. (p.s. It looks like the 
>>>founding families where right and the board was wrong).
>>>
>>>On top of that, there have been articles lately proclaiming her to be the 
>>>worst CEO ever. How soon we forget about Nortel, Global Crossing, 360 
>>>Networks, Enron, WorldCom and others. Many of Carly's actions (or inactions) 
>>>may have seemed criminal to this newsgroup but she won't be going to jail 
>>>for doing anything illegal.
>> 
>> 
>> I don't think anyone here ever thought Carly was doing anything
>> illegal.  They just thought she was incompetent.  It looks like
>> they were right.
>> 
>> 
>>>But let me jump back to my first point; the problem (IMHO) with modern 
>>>business is that non-technical people believe that anyone with an MBA can 
>>>run any company. Well, HP is a technical company and should be directly run 
>>>by technical people taking advice from financial people. Take a look around 
>>>at the currently successful technical companies and you'll see that a 
>>>technical guy is sitting at the top. Here are a few examples from my short 
>>>list:
>>>
>>>Microsoft
>> 
>> 
>> What technical guy is sitting at the head of Microsoft?  Surely you
>> don't mean Gates?
> 
> 
> See the movie Pirates of Silicon Valley.  As a young MIT student, he 
> wrote a quick OS for an early computer. He is both technical and really
> understands marketing and is a great futurist.
> 

If by "wrote a quick OS" you mean "stole a BASIC compiler" then you
may be right.  Even DOS was NIH as far as M$ was concerned.  The second
assertion of your third sentence is right, while the first and third
are demonstrably wrong.

------------------------------

Date: 15 Feb 2005 19:24:48 GMT
From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)
Subject: Re: grep on openVMS?
Message-ID: <37f0k0F4or9b5U1@individual.net>

In article <akv9B3+zWRHg@eisner.encompasserve.org>,
	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:
> In article <37ee1mF5c71e8U1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
>> 
>> Actually, you are free to continue to use the original one letter
>> options, but the long one's are also available for those who want
>> the exercise for their fingers.
> 
>    I think you're confusing gnu with UNIX.

Call it whatever you want.  The utilities, as they are currently
being written by numerous developers around the world, offer the
features I mentioned above.  If HPUX or AIX prefer to only offer
the old single letter options that does not prevent a sys admin
from offering the more useful versions.  All the current Linux
and BSD versions have them.

bill
 

-- 
Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton   |
Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 13:07:26 -0800
From: Z <Z@no.spam>
Subject: Re: grep on openVMS?
Message-ID: <vBtQd.7120$3h3.384@fe03.lga>

Bob Koehler wrote:
>>The same is true for plenty of VMS commands, qualifiers and also layered 
>>product commands. You just don't see it that way because of decades of 
>>VMS exposure.

>    Right, nobody would ever think of using "PRINT" to print a file, 
>    "SEARCH" to search it, or "/LOG" to mean the same thing on every
>    command that has it.

Examples of well-named VMS commands, such as "PRINT," does not refute 
the claim that plenty of VMS commands, qualifiers and layered product 
command are not intuitive.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 21:41:17 -0600
From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>
Subject: Guy Peleg: More wish list items
Message-ID: <4212C0DD.2213C4FD@comcast.net>

If these aren't already in V8.2...

New keywords for F$GETSYI()

IJOBCNT
BJOBCNT
NJOBCNT

(counterparts to their ...LIM companions)

-- 
David J Dachtera
dba DJE Systems
http://www.djesys.com/

Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:
http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/

Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:
http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/

Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:
http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/

Coming soon:
Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:54:53 -0500
From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>
Subject: Re: IBM Linux and Universities
Message-ID: <1108503784.3ec8d5cf1fb2262e817a14c3cc8afe03@teranews>

"Main, Kerry" wrote:
> My point was that the server world is not currently 80% Windows based as
> the "analysts" of the time were predicting when Windows hype was at its
> peak.

Your definition of "server" is probably different. Oh, and let us know
when Winkler has changed his mind about Windows eviscerating the
underbelly of Unix and other proprietary servers.


Consider the days prior to Window 3.1 when ALL-IN-1 was the largest
email system in he world (the most "seats"). VMS had a large portion of
the corporate email servers. Now, it has none because Palmer murdered
ALL-In-1 and Curly gave it its final coup de grâce (not even ported to IA64).

So, now, if you don't consider Exchange boxes to be servers, then
perhaps you are right that Windows may not have 80% of market.

The thing is that if you constantly narrow your definition of "server"
to an ever smaller and smaller niche, you will always be able to say
that Windows doesn't have 80% of market, and in fact, if you define
server to be "machine in hospital that deals with patient records", you
may be able to claim that VMS has a 50% market share (or whatever it is).

But if you define server to be a machine that is not at someone's desk
and to which other amchines connect, then the 80% figure for Windows
isn't that far off.

Also, consider that with Wintel, it is one server per application. From
a market share perspective, that one VMS machine in a company is still a
tiny bit compared to hundreds of wintel servers installed throughout the
company, even though the VMS machine may be big iron doing a lot of stuff.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:51:14 GMT
From: "Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: LAN Failover
Message-ID: <6htQd.322$DC6.220@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>

http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/732FINAL/aa-pv5nh-tk/00/01/119-con.html#cegejebd

The System Manger Vol 2 addresses LAN fail over.  Key notes, the manual
state that "This command fails if any specified LAN devices have active
users" should really state that This command fails if any specified LAN
devices have active protocols"

You'll either need to stop all protcols or use the DEFINE option in LANCP
and reboot. In either case you'll need to reconfigure the protocols (DECnet,
TCPIP, Pathworks . . .) in use for the new logical lan device and use DEFINE
to configure the permantent database.

$ MCR LANCP
LANCP> SET DEVICE/FAILOVER=(EIA,EIB)/ENABLE LLA0
LANCP> EXIT

Make sure you review the supported NICs.  If you're running DECnet the MAC
address based on the DECnet address, that address will migrate from one NIC
to the other on fail over.  You may need to configure your network to avoid
delays on fail over.  Sessions remain intact.

I'm using this in a production cluster with connections to redundant
switches.  Once configured, it just plain works.

-- 


Andy Bustamante
Remove the ASCII 95s for e-mail


<Ouk@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1108410796.171685.101350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Hi,
>
> I've been asked to evaluate the possibility of using the LAN Failover
> functionality that arrived in 7.3-2. I'm familiar with NetRAIN in a
> Tru64 environment and from the descriptions I've read so far, it would
> appear similar.
>
> The 7.3-2 New Features manual gives an overview and suggests reading
> the System Manager's Manual, the System Management Utilities
> Reference Manual and the I/O User's Reference Manual. These guides
> (although there appears to be no mention of LAN Failover in the I/O
> Users Reference Guide) give an overview and detail how to create a
> failover set, but miss out a lot of the background detail. EG:
>
> * What changes are made to the MAC address when the NICs are added to a
> set?
> * How does the mechanism that detects a NIC failure work?
> * Recommended MAC address aging times for connected ethernet switches?
>
> Can anyone point me to any documentation on LAN Failover that I've
> missed?
>
> Is anyone aware of any known problems with running DECNet, TCP/IP, LLC2
> or GAP on top a Lan Failover set?
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:14:51 -0500
From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>
Subject: RE: LAN Failover
Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB53F415@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ouk@netscape.net [mailto:Ouk@netscape.net]=20
> Sent: February 14, 2005 2:53 PM
> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com
> Subject: LAN Failover
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> I've been asked to evaluate the possibility of using the LAN Failover
> functionality that arrived in 7.3-2. I'm familiar with NetRAIN in a
> Tru64 environment and from the descriptions I've read so far, it would
> appear similar.
>=20
> The 7.3-2 New Features manual gives an overview and suggests reading
> the System Manager's Manual, the System Management Utilities
> Reference Manual and the I/O User's Reference Manual. These guides
> (although there appears to be no mention of LAN Failover in the I/O
> Users Reference Guide) give an overview and detail how to create a
> failover set, but miss out a lot of the background detail. EG:
>=20
> * What changes are made to the MAC address when the NICs are=20
> added to a
> set?
> * How does the mechanism that detects a NIC failure work?
> * Recommended MAC address aging times for connected ethernet switches?
>=20
> Can anyone point me to any documentation on LAN Failover that I've
> missed?
>=20
> Is anyone aware of any known problems with running DECNet,=20
> TCP/IP, LLC2
> or GAP on top a Lan Failover set?
>=20


The following whitepaper might be of assistance:
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/journal/v2/articles/tcpip.pdf

Regards

Kerry Main
Senior Consultant
HP Services Canada
Voice: 613-592-4660
Fax: 613-591-4477
kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom
(remove the DOT's and AT)=20

"OpenVMS has always had integrity ..
Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 21:44:20 +0200
From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_hp.com>
Subject: Re: Looking for suggestions for bootcamp sessions
Message-ID: <4212514b@usenet01.boi.hp.com>

"Ken Randell" <kenneth.randell@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:pGdQd.26867$wc.20504@trnddc07...
> I'd make it a third for the ELF stuff.
>
> Perhaps something about compiler performance -- instead of the stuff you
now
> get with the HP 7.1 C++ release notes -- your images will be bigger, but
we
> don't have any guidelines except to raise PGFLQUOTA.
>
> In case you have influence in other areas, other topics of interest to me:
>
> 1) EFI booting -- what's really happening under the hood in say
> VMS_LOADER.EFI
> 2) C-RTL futures -- when will I get a spoon with my fork (poor joke, I
know)
> 3) How long are you going to sell new Alphas?
> 4) APACHE/TOMCAT futures
>
>
>

EFI session is planned....

------------------------------

Date: 15 FEB 2005 14:43:16 GMT
From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)
Subject: Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP
Message-ID: <15FEB05.14431644@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>

In a previous article, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote:

-> ...
->I do, too, but you have to have the physical disk names SOMEwhere.

Not really. You could use:

$ DISK = F$DEVICE("*","DISK")

in a loop to find all the disk devices on the system. In that same loop
you could try to mount devices that match certain criteria (e.g. not a
template device, is directory structured and sharable), purposely using
wrong label, then parse the error message from mount to obtain correct
label and try again. You could even save the correct label in an indexed
file to use next time. Been mounting disks this way since the 80's.

--
-- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madison
--                 karcher.nomorespxm@waisman.wisc.edu  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 14:40:16 -0800
From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com>
Subject: Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP
Message-ID: <cuttog$5jc$1@news01.intel.com>

Z wrote:

> Carl Bennett wrote:
> 
>> I tend to agree with David...
>>
>> Unless I am doing a quorum disk, (which gets stuck in SYLOGICALS so 
>> that I can set up the roots for SYSUAF, QMAN$MASTER, etc... ), I like 
>> to mount disks under a separate com file near the end of SYSTARTUP. It 
>> just makes it easier if you ever have to get in and cut the startup 
>> off before it finishes...
> 
> 
> ... or a shadowed system disk. I put that $MOUNT in SYLOGICALS.

Why?

A shadowed system disk is already mounted by the time you
get to SYLOGICALS (or anywhere interesting).  I would say,
"What possible purpose could that serve?"  However I know
of one.  An uncommon one to be sure, but one that a certain
regular poster here probably encounters...

What's your reason?

     -Ken
-- 
I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...

Ken Fairfield
D1C Automation VMS System Support
who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield
where: intel dot com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 00:20:21 +0100
From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>
Subject: Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP
Message-ID: <37fedmF5b3of5U1@individual.net>

Carl Karcher wrote:

> In a previous article, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote:
> 
> -> ...
> ->I do, too, but you have to have the physical disk names SOMEwhere.
> 
> Not really. You could use:
> 
> $ DISK = F$DEVICE("*","DISK")
> 
> in a loop to find all the disk devices on the system. In that same loop
> you could try to mount devices that match certain criteria (e.g. not a
> template device, is directory structured and sharable), purposely using
> wrong label, then parse the error message from mount to obtain correct
> label and try again. You could even save the correct label in an indexed
> file to use next time. Been mounting disks this way since the 80's.
> 

I did something similar in the mid 80s with a fleet of exchangeable 
disks. I mounted each disk with /OVERRIDE=IDENTIFICATION, and if the 
label was valid (held in a DCL string of elements), then mount it /SYSTEM.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:47:39 -0600
From: Alphaman <alphaman-nix-spam@alphant.com>
Subject: Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP
Message-ID: <gvyQd.9019$U86.4261@fe40.usenetserver.com>

Paul Sture wrote:
> Carl Karcher wrote:
> 
> I did something similar in the mid 80s with a fleet of exchangeable 
> disks. I mounted each disk with /OVERRIDE=IDENTIFICATION, and if the 
> label was valid (held in a DCL string of elements), then mount it /SYSTEM.

Careful with that Mount/Over=id.  If you're in a cluster and the disk is 
already mounted on a remote node, this will fail.  It's also 
*reeeeeaallllllly sloooooooooow*.....

Search this newsgroup's archive and you'll find a program (Macro, IIRC) 
called GETVOLNAM.  This will very, very quickly read the header from the 
disk (even if mounted on a remote node) and return the volume label, 
allowing you to get the disk mounted in a fraction of the time it would 
take to get the volume label alone using Mou/Ov=id.

If you use f$dev to scan for disks, be sure to add logic to exclude CDs 
(esp. DQ devices that may not even exist -- trying to mount them isn't 
pretty and you won't like doing it!!) and floppies.  Oh, and TU58's show 
up as disks, IIRC.

There are some really good reasons for mounting at least a shared 
cluster disk in SyLogicals -- shared Qman files, TCP/IP proxy and host 
files, RightsList and SysUAF.dat files, etc.  SyLogicals is the place to 
have the disks mounted if you're defining the logicals that point to 
them therein.

There's also a way to find out if a volume needs rebuilding 
(unfortunately, I don't recall how -- it might be an arg to f$getdvi, 
but it's not readily apparent to me at this time); that, coupled with 
determining whether a disk is local or remote (don't bother rebuilding 
remote drives) can be put into a batch job or even a Run/Delay detached 
process during SyStartup_VMS that runs several minutes after the system 
has booted.  (That way, you're not using up a job in a batch queue that 
probably has enough other startup tasks that have to be done, nor are 
you dependent upon other jobs in case you've got an exhausted job limit 
on a queue.)

I wrote just such a DCL program a year or two ago for one of our 
commercial products.  I'd post it if it were possible, but the above 
summarizes some of the major items I found that could help.

Aaron

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 21:35:42 -0600
From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP
Message-ID: <4212BF8E.F719085F@comcast.net>

norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:
> 
> rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) wrote on 02/15/2005
> 05:47:45 AM:
> 
> > In article <05021412155024@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>, brandon@dalsemi.com
> > (John Brandon) wrote:
> >
> > >VMS V7.2-1h1 Alpha
> >
> > ...
> >
> > >I started thinking why not mount all the disk drives in one command
> > file rather
> > >than the multiple locations as is now.  I was thinking that either one
> of the
> > >following would be ideal for this purpose:
> > >
> > >  SYS$MANAGER:SYCONFIG.COM
> > >  SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGICALS.COM
> > ...
> >
> > I have a MOUNT command file that's general enough to handle all the disks
> > in the cluster, and I call it from SYLOGICALS.COM.  That's the earliest I
> > need any disks, so that's where I mount all of them.  (There are a few
> > that are mounted earlier, like satellite node page files, so my MOUNT
> > procedure is smart enough to skip disks that are already mounted.)
> 
> What's wrong with mounting disks that are already mounted.  You just get
> MOUNT-I-MOUNTED and if the case
> MOUNT-I-ISAMBR
> and things proceed.

For shadow-set members, yes - that's true. Otherwise...

$ mount/noassi dka400 mru_011
%MOUNT-F-DEVMOUNT, device is already mounted

-- 
David J Dachtera
dba DJE Systems
http://www.djesys.com/

Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:
http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/

Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:
http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/

Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:
http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/

Coming soon:
Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page

------------------------------

Date: 15 Feb 2005 15:37:29 -0800
From: JimStrehlow@data911.com
Subject: Re: NFS mounts to Solaris Server
Message-ID: <1108510649.660418.50630@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

Jim wrote:
...
> 2. Our NFS mounts are not persistant across logins, the system user
has
> to stay logged in for others to use the mounts.


We regularly communicate with NFS directories on non-OpenVMS platforms.
The following is sample DCL that we use where APP_NAME is our
application name.

 TCPIP MOUNT XNFS1:  XNFS1  XNFS1 /GID="0" /UID="0" /SYSTEM /USER=
APP_NAME -
 /HOST="10.0.0.1" /PATH="G:\xnfs1" -
 /BACKGROUND=(DEL:00:01:00,RET:20) /RETRIES=4 -
 /CACHE_TIMEOUT=(DIRECTORY:00:00:01,READ_DIR)

I hope you can alter the above to work for your situation.

Jim, Database and OpenVMS Systems Administrator
Data911 Law Enforcement Hardware and Software
Alameda, CA, USA

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 13:35:55 -0600
From: "Schroeder, AJ" <aj1@qg.com>
Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution
Message-ID: <42124f20$1@news.qgraph.com>

"Bradford J. Hamilton" <hamilton@Encompasserve.org> wrote in message
news:cut288$dif$1@grandcanyon.binc.net...
> In article <421200e9$1@news.qgraph.com>, "Schroeder, AJ" <aj1@qg.com>
writes:
> !
> !"John Santos" <john@egh.com> wrote in message
> !news:rucQd.26452$wc.5294@trnddc07...
> !snip!
> !> In the past, we have recieved two copies of most Alpha VMS kits, one
> !> with our support contract and one as DSPP members.  Often when we renew
> !> the DSPP membership (annually) we get yet another copy of the latest
> !> O/S kit.  I bet this is where many of the Ebay kits come from.  Most
> !> sites really only need one copy.  (I do like to keep two, though.  It
> !> really stinks to discover you've got a scratched CD at 2AM on a Sunday
> !> morning in the middle of an upgrade.)
> !>
> !>
> !> -- 
> !> John Santos
> !> Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc.
> !> 781-861-0670 ext 539
> !
> !I tried that avenue, unfortunatley my employer is moving away from VMS so
> !our subscription is in an unknown status.
> !
> !So, do they hobbyist licenses work with the latest releases? Or does the
> !license from DECUS only work with the version of VMS that comes with the
> !hobbyist CD kits? Reason I ask is that I might be able to get 7.3-2 and
some
> !layered products from my employer, just not the leading edge.
> !
>
> The licenses will work with any VMS release AFAIK (I don't know of many
> hobbyists running VMS 6.2 and earlier, but I imagine they exist). I've
seen
> hobbyist sites running on V7.2, V7.2-1, and V7.3.
>
> V7.3-2 should work fine.  I currently use V7.3-1, but I have a copy of
V7.3-2
> ready to go when I feel up to it.  I'll probably move to V7.3-2 when
updates
> and fixes for V7.3-1 stop.  I hope I'll have access to V8.2 in the near
future,
> but I think I can ask folks to lend me a copy, if I need one.

The reason I was looking for an upgrade was to get the new version of TCP/IP
services, I miss SSH quite a bit and having telnet open isn't sitting well
with me. Can I just update the layered product, or do I need to upgrade my
whole OS?

>
> !As you can tell, I am new to VMS and the hobbyist program.
> !
>
> Great - I hope you enjoy it!

I have enjoyed it so far, it is a bit of a learning curve from *nix, but it
works quite well. I am having fun learning how to hack around on my VMS
system.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 14:05:46 -0600
From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>
Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution
Message-ID: <37f2v8F5d11ivU1@individual.net>

Larry Kilgallen wrote:
> In article <cut288$dif$1@grandcanyon.binc.net>, hamilton@Encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton) writes:
> 
> 
>>The licenses will work with any VMS release AFAIK (I don't know of many
>>hobbyists running VMS 6.2 and earlier, but I imagine they exist).
> 
> 
> The licenses probably do not work on VMS V5.0 and V5.1.
> 
> They certainly do not work prior to VMS V5.0.

Then again, they aren't needed prior to VMS 5.0.

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.

Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com
   Fax: 817-237-3074

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:02:50 +0000 (UTC)
From: hamilton@Encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton)
Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution
Message-ID: <cutkha$iaj$1@grandcanyon.binc.net>

In article <42124f20$1@news.qgraph.com>, "Schroeder, AJ" <aj1@qg.com> writes:
!snip!
!
!The reason I was looking for an upgrade was to get the new version of TCP/IP
!services, I miss SSH quite a bit and having telnet open isn't sitting well
!with me. Can I just update the layered product, or do I need to upgrade my
!whole OS?
!

You don't even need to upgrade the TCP/IP stack - just go to the nice folks at
www.process.com, who license their IP stacks (Multinet or TCPware) for hobbyist
use.  These stacks have had SSH for quite a while now, and they work with a 
_broad_ range of VMS versions.

Apologies to the hp purists here, but no one should have to suffer with an
inferior product for VMS, not even a hobbyist.	:-)

!snip!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 12:22:17 -0800
From: DeanW <dean.woodward@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution
Message-ID: <3f119ada0502151222fb7139c@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:02:50 +0000 (UTC), Bradford J. Hamilton 
> You don't even need to upgrade the TCP/IP stack - just go to the nice folks at
> www.process.com, who license their IP stacks (Multinet or TCPware) for hobbyist
> use.  These stacks have had SSH for quite a while now, and they work with a
> _broad_ range of VMS versions.

Supported or not, TCPIP 5.4 runs on 7.2-1 and comes with SSH.

Although I've had more breakin attempts since I opened up SSH
(averaging 4-5 a week) than I've ever had over telnet (um, zero, in 6+
years).

------------------------------

Date: 15 Feb 2005 14:14:37 -0600
From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)
Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution
Message-ID: <ANBVtrabFDMP@eisner.encompasserve.org>

In article <37f2v8F5d11ivU1@individual.net>, Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> writes:
> Larry Kilgallen wrote:
>> In article <cut288$dif$1@grandcanyon.binc.net>, hamilton@Encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton) writes:
>> 
>> 
>>>The licenses will work with any VMS release AFAIK (I don't know of many
>>>hobbyists running VMS 6.2 and earlier, but I imagine they exist).
>> 
>> 
>> The licenses probably do not work on VMS V5.0 and V5.1.
>> 
>> They certainly do not work prior to VMS V5.0.
> 
> Then again, they aren't needed prior to VMS 5.0.

My MicroVMS 4.x distributions had an extra license element that had
to be applied to get the licensed number of users.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 12:55:28 -0800
From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>
Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution
Message-ID: <opsl9a2qmfzgicya@hyrrokkin>

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 12:22:17 -0800, DeanW <dean.woodward@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:02:50 +0000 (UTC), Bradford J. Hamilton
>> You don't even need to upgrade the TCP/IP stack - just go to the nice  
>> folks at
>> www.process.com, who license their IP stacks (Multinet or TCPware) for  
>> hobbyist
>> use.  These stacks have had SSH for quite a while now, and they work  
>> with a
>> _broad_ range of VMS versions.
>
> Supported or not, TCPIP 5.4 runs on 7.2-1 and comes with SSH.
>
> Although I've had more breakin attempts since I opened up SSH
> (averaging 4-5 a week) than I've ever had over telnet (um, zero, in 6+
> years).
Isn't the basic difference that passwds are transmitted unencrypted with
telnet?  Aside from this, it would seem that breakins have the same
probability of success, independent of whether you use telnet or ssh


-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 13:25:08 -0800
From: DeanW <dean.woodward@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution
Message-ID: <3f119ada0502151325547e839d@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 12:55:28 -0800, Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 12:22:17 -0800, DeanW <dean.woodward@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Supported or not, TCPIP 5.4 runs on 7.2-1 and comes with SSH.
> >
> > Although I've had more breakin attempts since I opened up SSH
> > (averaging 4-5 a week) than I've ever had over telnet (um, zero, in 6+
> > years).
> Isn't the basic difference that passwds are transmitted unencrypted with
> telnet?  Aside from this, it would seem that breakins have the same
> probability of success, independent of whether you use telnet or ssh

Standard Telnet is open- anyone who plugs a sniffer into any segment
between point A and point B can see/read the traffic. It's
theoretically possible to take over a telnet session from somewhere in
the middle, though I don't know if it's been done in the wild. I do
know a telnet password has been captured via sniffing and used to
break into a system and raise some degree of havoc until they nailed
the hole shut again. (Local small-town ISP that has since disabled
telnet access.)

Our GUI environment uses telnet to communicate with the server, but we
use LGI callouts to verify users, thus avoiding the clear-text
password issue.

I'm guessing the SSH attempts are analogous to script kiddies, looking
for open SSH ports then throwing a list of username/password combos at
it that worked once, somewhere. It'd be interesting to see what
usernames they were trying, but as mentioned in another thread, SSH
doesn't like to give that information.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 17:35:55 -0500
From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>
Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution
Message-ID: <1114tphobs23o2d@corp.supernews.com>

Larry Kilgallen wrote:
> In article <cut288$dif$1@grandcanyon.binc.net>, hamilton@Encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton) writes:
> 
> 
>>The licenses will work with any VMS release AFAIK (I don't know of many
>>hobbyists running VMS 6.2 and earlier, but I imagine they exist).
> 
> 
> The licenses probably do not work on VMS V5.0 and V5.1.
> 
> They certainly do not work prior to VMS V5.0.

If the object is being able to run VMS, then the licenses do work on 
versions prior to V5.0.  Not saying they actually do anything, but VMS 
does run.  :-)

------------------------------

Date: 15 FEB 2005 22:25:39 GMT
From: Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov>
Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution
Message-ID: <15FEB05.22253928@feda34.fed.ornl.gov>

In a previous article, DeanW <dean.woodward@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 12:55:28 -0800, Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> wrote:
> > On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 12:22:17 -0800, DeanW <dean.woodward@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > Supported or not, TCPIP 5.4 runs on 7.2-1 and comes with SSH.
> > >
> > > Although I've had more breakin attempts since I opened up SSH
> > > (averaging 4-5 a week) than I've ever had over telnet (um, zero, in 6+
> > > years).
> > Isn't the basic difference that passwds are transmitted unencrypted with
> > telnet?  Aside from this, it would seem that breakins have the same
> > probability of success, independent of whether you use telnet or ssh
>  
> Standard Telnet is open- anyone who plugs a sniffer into any segment
> between point A and point B can see/read the traffic. It's
> theoretically possible to take over a telnet session from somewhere in
> the middle, though I don't know if it's been done in the wild. I do
> know a telnet password has been captured via sniffing and used to
> break into a system and raise some degree of havoc until they nailed
> the hole shut again. (Local small-town ISP that has since disabled
> telnet access.)
>  
> Our GUI environment uses telnet to communicate with the server, but we
> use LGI callouts to verify users, thus avoiding the clear-text
> password issue.
>  
> I'm guessing the SSH attempts are analogous to script kiddies, looking
> for open SSH ports then throwing a list of username/password combos at
> it that worked once, somewhere. It'd be interesting to see what
> usernames they were trying, but as mentioned in another thread, SSH
> doesn't like to give that information.

A number of successful ssh breakins have been made in the last few
months using trojaned ssh clients.  The clients just capture the
keystrokes, including legitimate usernames and passwords.  The fact
that ssh encypts everything, not just the passwords, actually makes
it harder for the net cops to detect the resulting breakins.

Dave
--------------
Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOV
Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 17:49:55 -0500
From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>
Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution
Message-ID: <1108507087.1e09e6070d60bda982a7a0a107882a6a@teranews>

Dave Froble wrote:

> If the object is being able to run VMS, then the licenses do work on
> versions prior to V5.0.  Not saying they actually do anything, but VMS
> does run.  :-)

Nop. On my all mighty Microvax II, VMS walks :-)


VMS may need a "key" prior to V 5.0, but applications didn't have any
licencing schemes before that.

One needs to remember that applications coming from post 5.0
environments wouldn't work on pre 5.0 since the image activator would
complain about missing shareable image (and probably lots of ident mismatchs).

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 17:15:15 -0600
From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>
Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution
Message-ID: <37fe2iF545fqhU1@individual.net>

Larry Kilgallen wrote:
> In article <37f2v8F5d11ivU1@individual.net>, Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> writes:
> 
>>Larry Kilgallen wrote:
>>
>>>In article <cut288$dif$1@grandcanyon.binc.net>, hamilton@Encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton) writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>The licenses will work with any VMS release AFAIK (I don't know of many
>>>>hobbyists running VMS 6.2 and earlier, but I imagine they exist).
>>>
>>>
>>>The licenses probably do not work on VMS V5.0 and V5.1.
>>>
>>>They certainly do not work prior to VMS V5.0.
>>
>>Then again, they aren't needed prior to VMS 5.0.
> 
> 
> My MicroVMS 4.x distributions had an extra license element that had
> to be applied to get the licensed number of users.

Under MicroVMS 4.x, licensed users was handled by a version of 
LOGINOUT.EXE which was patched for a particular number.

The license element which was distributed was actually an updated 
LOGINOUT.EXE.

Actually, the LOGINOUT.EXE from regular VMS also worked very well under 
MicroVMS.  <grin>

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.

Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com
   Fax: 817-237-3074

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:34:24 -0500
From: Thomas Wirt <twnews@kittles.com>
Subject: OT:  Where do you get your News feed?
Message-ID: <37f872F59aqoqU1@individual.net>

I got this email today and am looking for an alternate means to read and 
post.  The News.Individual.NET fees are very reasonable, but I am not 
interested in entering into a contract paid in Euros.  The last time 
that I asked this group this question, the answer I got was 
News.Individual.NET.  I am now asking what people use for their feed.  I 
am curious if most of you get your News from a remote server as a 
service, or do you maintain your own News server?  If you maintain your 
own News server where do you get your feed for that?

I hope I get some answers.  Please do not make me go back to Google 
groups for posting!! :)  I really like to read and post from the comfort 
of my chosen News reader.

TIA

 >Subject: [248662] News.Individual.NET not free of charge anymore
 >
 >
 >Dear users of News.Individual.NET,
 >
 >effective from April 1th, 2005, use of News.Individual.NET will
 >not be free of charge anymore. The news service will continue as
 >a fee-based service.


-- 

Thomas Wirt
Systems Manager
Kittle's Home Furnishings
Indianapolis, IN

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 17:39:11 -0500
From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>
Subject: Re: OT:  Where do you get your News feed?
Message-ID: <1108506440.4f6d6c0159e09c78fccc79f33c366984@teranews>

Thomas Wirt wrote:
> post.  The News.Individual.NET fees are very reasonable, but I am not
> interested in entering into a contract paid in Euros. 

What is wrong with euros ? If you pay with credit card, it will
automatically be converted to the currency of your country.

But to answer you questions:

free.teranews.com requires a minor subscription fee, and then you're
allowed 50 megs per day.

news.astraweb.com for $10 you are allowed to download a certain number
of gigs over an infinite period of time. 

I have both so that when teranews is down, I can use the other.  My isp
also profides access to giganews, but is speed is throttled and posts
have sales pitch appended to the text.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 23:56:54 +0100
From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>
Subject: Re: OT:  Where do you get your News feed?
Message-ID: <37fd1oF5bmt3bU1@individual.net>

Thomas Wirt wrote:

> I got this email today and am looking for an alternate means to read and 
> post.  The News.Individual.NET fees are very reasonable, but I am not 
> interested in entering into a contract paid in Euros.  The last time 
> that I asked this group this question, the answer I got was 
> News.Individual.NET.  I am now asking what people use for their feed.  I 
> am curious if most of you get your News from a remote server as a 
> service, or do you maintain your own News server?  If you maintain your 
> own News server where do you get your feed for that?
> 
> I hope I get some answers.  Please do not make me go back to Google 
> groups for posting!! :)  I really like to read and post from the comfort 
> of my chosen News reader.
> 
> TIA
> 
>  >Subject: [248662] News.Individual.NET not free of charge anymore
>  >
>  >
>  >Dear users of News.Individual.NET,
>  >
>  >effective from April 1th, 2005, use of News.Individual.NET will
>  >not be free of charge anymore. The news service will continue as
>  >a fee-based service.
> 
> 

And I just got the same message. It's 10 EUR a year or 5 EUR for 3  months.

------------------------------

Date: 16 Feb 2005 01:12:13 GMT
From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)
Subject: Re: OT:  Where do you get your News feed?
Message-ID: <37fkvdF5csikaU1@individual.net>

In article <37f872F59aqoqU1@individual.net>,
	Thomas Wirt <twnews@kittles.com> writes:
> I got this email today 

I got one too.  :-(

>                        and am looking for an alternate means to read and 
> post.  The News.Individual.NET fees are very reasonable, but I am not 
> interested in entering into a contract paid in Euros.

I have no problem with the fee or with paying euros but, unfortunately,
I tried three different browsers and none of them was able to get to the
registration page. :-(

>                                                       The last time 
> that I asked this group this question, the answer I got was 
> News.Individual.NET.  I am now asking what people use for their feed.  I 
> am curious if most of you get your News from a remote server as a 
> service, or do you maintain your own News server?  

I used to run a News server but while my department supported it the
higher-ups (who probably don't even know what News is) forced me to
shut it down a few years ago.  I am going to check out the news server
run by my new ISP but I know they won't carry any of the european groups
and I'm sure going to miss them.

>                                                    If you maintain your 
> own News server where do you get your feed for that?

There is a page (in sweden I think) where you can post looking for
newsfeeds.  Probably depends on what you want.  I used to provide
a feed of just the vmsnet groups to someone in eastern europe back
when my server was still running.

> 
> I hope I get some answers.  Please do not make me go back to Google 
> groups for posting!! :)  I really like to read and post from the comfort 
> of my chosen News reader.

Me too.

bill

-- 
Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton   |
Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 18:55:36 -0800
From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>
Subject: Re: OT:  Where do you get your News feed?
Message-ID: <opsl9rqydrzgicya@hyrrokkin>

On 16 Feb 2005 01:12:13 GMT, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote:

> In article <37f872F59aqoqU1@individual.net>,
> 	Thomas Wirt <twnews@kittles.com> writes:
>> I got this email today
>
> I got one too.  :-(
me too.  But I had no problem, use Opera.
>
>>                        and am looking for an alternate means to read and
>> post.  The News.Individual.NET fees are very reasonable, but I am not
>> interested in entering into a contract paid in Euros.
>
> I have no problem with the fee or with paying euros but, unfortunately,
> I tried three different browsers and none of them was able to get to the
> registration page. :-(
>
>>                                                       The last time
>> that I asked this group this question, the answer I got was
>> News.Individual.NET.  I am now asking what people use for their feed.  I
>> am curious if most of you get your News from a remote server as a
>> service, or do you maintain your own News server?
>
> I used to run a News server but while my department supported it the
> higher-ups (who probably don't even know what News is) forced me to
> shut it down a few years ago.  I am going to check out the news server
> run by my new ISP but I know they won't carry any of the european groups
> and I'm sure going to miss them.
>
>>                                                    If you maintain your
>> own News server where do you get your feed for that?
>
> There is a page (in sweden I think) where you can post looking for
> newsfeeds.  Probably depends on what you want.  I used to provide
> a feed of just the vmsnet groups to someone in eastern europe back
> when my server was still running.
>
>>
>> I hope I get some answers.  Please do not make me go back to Google
>> groups for posting!! :)  I really like to read and post from the comfort
>> of my chosen News reader.
>
> Me too.
>
> bill
>



-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:07:15 -0800
From: Jack Fortune <jfortune@uoregon.edu>
Subject: pgp for vms
Message-ID: <vj3511htkl3a2e29ulhe5p1r97sn9ea0pl@4ax.com>

Is there a version of pgp for VMS?

Any info is appreciated.

Jack Fortune
University of Oregon

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:55:13 -0600
From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler>
Subject: Re: pgp for vms
Message-ID: <craigberry-A055BB.20551215022005@news.isp.giganews.com>

In article <vj3511htkl3a2e29ulhe5p1r97sn9ea0pl@4ax.com>,
 Jack Fortune <jfortune@uoregon.edu> wrote:

> Is there a version of pgp for VMS?

http://h71000.www7.hp.com/opensource/gnupg.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:57:17 -0600
From: Alphaman <alphaman-nix-spam@alphant.com>
Subject: Re: pgp for vms
Message-ID: <hEyQd.9022$U86.5784@fe40.usenetserver.com>

Jack Fortune wrote:

> Is there a version of pgp for VMS?
> 
> Any info is appreciated.
> 
> Jack Fortune
> University of Oregon

http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wizard/faq/vmsfaq_015.html

Both PGP (old) and GnuPG (New! Fresh! Tasty!) are referenced in section 
13.1.

Also see:

http://h71000.www7.hp.com/opensource/opensource.html#gnupg

Aaron

------------------------------

Date: 15 Feb 2005 11:10:17 -0800
From: "ugex" <edgar_ulloa@yahoo.com>
Subject: Quorum disk in EVA
Message-ID: <1108494617.043986.22380@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

some one knows if its posible a stable configuration in cluster with
two nodes with eva storage but my quorum disk in this storage.?

I know that the quorum disk cannot be a member of shadow set but I dont
know if can be member of virtual array.

Any comment about that..?

Thanks

------------------------------

Date: 15 Feb 2005 11:21:52 -0800
From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Quorum disk in EVA
Message-ID: <1108495312.281671.92890@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>

ugex wrote:
> some one knows if its posible a stable configuration in cluster with
> two nodes with eva storage but my quorum disk in this storage.?
>
> I know that the quorum disk cannot be a member of shadow set but I
dont
> know if can be member of virtual array.
>
> Any comment about that..?
>
> Thanks

Edgar,

 I have storage on HSG80's so I can't say for certain about EVA's.  The
quorum disks for two of my clusters are on DGA devices served by the
HSG80's and I have no problems.  As far as I know VMS won't see the
virtual array any differently.  Don't forget to format the drive as a
VMS volume first, though.  Either ODS-2 or ODS-5 will work.

  John H. Reinhardt

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:07:52 +0000 (UTC)
From: Jefferson Humber <matrix01@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Quorum disk in EVA
Message-ID: <cutkqo$4io$1@sparta.btinternet.com>

ugex wrote:
> some one knows if its posible a stable configuration in cluster with
> two nodes with eva storage but my quorum disk in this storage.?
> 
> I know that the quorum disk cannot be a member of shadow set but I dont
> know if can be member of virtual array.
> 
> Any comment about that..?
> 
> Thanks
> 

Edgar,

We have a RAID(1+0) quorum disk in an MSA1000 array.

Works sweet with v.7.3-2

Jeff

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:34:22 GMT
From: Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Quorum disk in EVA
Message-ID: <i1tQd.100$MR6.14@news.cpqcorp.net>

ugex wrote:
> some one knows if its posible a stable configuration in cluster with
> two nodes with eva storage but my quorum disk in this storage.?
> 
> I know that the quorum disk cannot be a member of shadow set but I dont
> know if can be member of virtual array.

A logical unit made from an EVA virtual array will work just fine as a 
quorum disk. It can be vRAID1 or vRAID5 and that's OK because VMS just 
sees it as a single disk unit; the mirroring or RAID-5 protection is 
hidden from VMS.

This restriction is only with respect to host-based volume shadowing.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 19:16:38 -0800
From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>
Subject: rx5670 for $2K
Message-ID: <opsl9sp0nazgicya@hyrrokkin>

Anybody else get the offer?  Now if only I could get it with GEM,
I could use it.

http://h21007.www2.hp.com/dspp/prot/ne/ne_NewsDetail_PRT_IDX/1,1649,1908,00.html
-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

------------------------------

Date: 15 Feb 2005 22:41:04 -0600
From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)
Subject: Re: rx5670 for $2K
Message-ID: <PH4i55bRMjMW@eisner.encompasserve.org>

In article <opsl9sp0nazgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:
> Anybody else get the offer?  Now if only I could get it with GEM,
> I could use it.
> 
> http://h21007.www2.hp.com/dspp/prot/ne/ne_NewsDetail_PRT_IDX/1,1649,1908,00.html




                              HP Passport sign-in

                              HP Passport is a single login service that lets you register with HP Passport-enabled Web sites using a single user
                              identifier and password of your choice. 

------------------------------

Date: 15 Feb 2005 23:48:30 GMT
From: YANOF@WANADOO.FR
Subject: SONO A PRIX DISCOUNT
Message-ID: <42128a4e$0$2164$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>

<!--
Bonjour,

Si votre application de lecture d'e-mails ne lit que le format texte, vous pouvez :

- commander du matériel de Sono, d'éclairage et des guitares à prix discount sur :
    
<http://www.sonoboulevard.com/index.php?action=affil&choix=set&affilid=479&IdAffPa
ge=87&naction=accueil>

- gagner de l'argent en vous affiliant sur :
    
<http://www.sonoboulevard.com/index.php?action=affil&choix=set&affilid=479&IdAffPa
ge=87&naction=affilde>
  Faites comme moi, affiliez vous et gagnez 5% du montant des commandes...

Nous vous remercions pour votre confiance.
   -->
<BODY bgColor=#f3f3f3 leftMargin=0 topMargin=0 marginheight="0" marginwidth="0">
<TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 
width="100%" border=0>
  <TR>
    <TD width="280"><A 
href="http://www.sonoboulevard.com/index.php?action=affil&choix=set&affilid=479&Id
AffPage=87&naction=accueil"><IMG 
      src="http://www.sonoboulevard.com/images/Logo.gif" width="280" 
border=0></A></TD>
    <TD><center><a 
href="http://www.sonoboulevard.com/index.php?action=affil&choix=set&affilid=479&Id
AffPage=87&naction=affilde"><font size="6" color="#FF0000">Gagnez 5% du montant des 
commandes, devenez affilié...</font></a></center></TD></TR></TABLE>
    <br>
<TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 
width="100%" border=0>
  <TR>
    <TD width="33%" height="289">
      <P align=center><b>Double DERBY</B><br><A 
      
href="http://www.sonoboulevard.com/index.php?action=affil&choix=set&affilid=479&Id
AffPage=87&naction=detailprod&Id=7"><IMG 
      height="180" src="http://www.sonoboulevard.com/images/photoprod/15.jpg" 
      border=0></A></P>
      <P align=center><FONT face="Arial Black" color=#ff0000 
      size=7>69 €</FONT></P></TD>
    <TD width="33%">
      <P align=center><b>Activ 212</b><br><A 
      
href="http://www.sonoboulevard.com/index.php?action=affil&choix=set&affilid=479&Id
AffPage=87&naction=detailprod&Id=825"><IMG 
      height="180" src="http://www.sonoboulevard.com/images/photoprod/1239g.jpg"
      border=0></A></P>
      <P align=center><FONT face="Arial Black" color=#ff0000 
      size=7>229 €</FONT></P></TD>
    <TD width="34%">
      <P align=center><b>PR-80</b><br><A 
      
href="http://www.sonoboulevard.com/index.php?action=affil&choix=set&affilid=479&Id
AffPage=87&naction=detailprod&Id=804"><IMG 
      width="200"
      src="http://www.sonoboulevard.com/images/photoprod/1204.jpg" 
      border=0></A></P>
      <P align=center><FONT face="Arial Black" color=#ff0000 
      size=7>85 €</FONT></P></TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 
width="100%" border=0>
  <TR>
    <TD width="50%">
      <P align=center><b>Arm Laser</b><br><A 
      
href="http://www.sonoboulevard.com/index.php?action=affil&choix=set&affilid=479&Id
AffPage=87&naction=detailprod&Id=42"><IMG 
      height="200"
      src="http://www.sonoboulevard.com/images/photoprod/75.jpg" 
      border=0></A></P>
      <P align=center><FONT face="Arial Black" color=#ff0000 
      size=7>109 €</FONT></P></TD>
    <TD width="50%">
      <P align=center><b>PA-2400</b><br><A 
      
href="http://www.sonoboulevard.com/index.php?action=affil&choix=set&affilid=479&Id
AffPage=87&naction=detailprod&Id=253"><IMG 
      width="300" 
      src="http://www.sonoboulevard.com/images/photoprod/383.jpg" 
       border=0></A></P>
      <P align=center><FONT face="Arial Black" color=#ff0000><FONT 
      size=7>189 €</FONT></P></TD></TR></TABLE>

<br><br><center><a 
href="http://www.sonoboulevard.com/index.php?action=affil&choix=set&affilid=479&Id
AffPage=87&naction=affilde"><font size="6" color="#0000FF">Faites comme moi, affiliez 
vous et gagner de l'argent.</font></a></center><br><br>
</body>
<center><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="border-collapse: collapse" width="500"><tr><td nowrap height="4" bgcolor="#000000"></td></tr><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#000000"><center><a href="http://www.e-advertize.com/index.php?choix=NNTPScribbler&Langue=en"><font color="#00FF00"><b>This message was sent with NNTP Scribbler (www.e-advertize.com).</b></font></a></center></td></tr><tr><td height="4" bgcolor="#000000"></td></tr></table></center>

------------------------------

Date: 15 Feb 2005 11:06:08 -0800
From: bill@wcschmidt.com
Subject: Re: Strange (to me) ACP lookup failure
Message-ID: <1108494368.931851.267290@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

VMS is ODS5 aware, dir is a VMS call and returns no files
try creating a file 1.1.log on a PC and then ftp it to VMS, under ODS2
the file appears as
1_1.log

------------------------------

Date: 15 Feb 2005 23:58:19 EST
From: cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (George Cook)
Subject: Re: Superfluous Responses  WAS Re: DCL command to show number of
Message-ID: <nypVJHh3ZFtr@wvnvms>

In article <opsl9rzpwuzgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:
> On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:26:40 -0500, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  
> wrote:
> 
>> Ken Fairfield wrote:
>>> bob@instantwhip.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> wrong, wrong ... I don't want to have to parse
>>>> output but do a system call to retrieve a number
>>>> into a symbol ...
>>>> $ ?
>>>      $ iusers = F$GetSyi("IJOBLIM")
>>>  Looks like the rest of you folks need to go back for a
>>> DCL refresher course...  :-)
>>>      -Ken
>>
>> Uh Uh Ken, he wants the currently logged in interactive users, not the  
>> authorized number of interactive users specified in IJOBLIM.
> 
> I notice quite often many responses that are out of sync, they are  
> responding
> to something that was long ago resolved.  Why is that?  Are they not  
> reading
> the responses, are they not able to read the responses, have they not seen  
> the
> responses?  I for one, find it a nuisance.

In general they have not seen the responses (and in some cases may never
see some of them). Usenet is a multiply interconnected store and forward
network with highly variable propagation times. I have administered
a news server for over ten years and in the early years was lucky to
have news articles within 12 hours of being current.


George cook
WVNET

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 19:00:51 -0800
From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>
Subject: Superfluous Responses  WAS Re: DCL command to show number of interactive users
Message-ID: <opsl9rzpwuzgicya@hyrrokkin>

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:26:40 -0500, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  
wrote:

> Ken Fairfield wrote:
>> bob@instantwhip.com wrote:
>>
>>> wrong, wrong ... I don't want to have to parse
>>> output but do a system call to retrieve a number
>>> into a symbol ...
>>> $ ?
>>      $ iusers = F$GetSyi("IJOBLIM")
>>  Looks like the rest of you folks need to go back for a
>> DCL refresher course...  :-)
>>      -Ken
>
> Uh Uh Ken, he wants the currently logged in interactive users, not the  
> authorized number of interactive users specified in IJOBLIM.

I notice quite often many responses that are out of sync, they are  
responding
to something that was long ago resolved.  Why is that?  Are they not  
reading
the responses, are they not able to read the responses, have they not seen  
the
responses?  I for one, find it a nuisance.
>
> I didn't think that looked right, and went into help, VAX/VMS V7.2, and  
> didn't immediately find that item code.  Further reading showed:
>
>           You can also specify any of the system parameters listed in the
>           OpenVMS System Management Utilities Reference Manual.
>
> You get used to looking for what you want to see, and forget to actually  
> read the text.  :-)
>
> Dave



-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

------------------------------

Date: 15 Feb 2005 16:12:24 -0800
From: lanalangley@eastlink.ca
Subject: This Really Works!
Message-ID: <1108512744.419220.265590@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Money making chain letter!
MAKE MONEY FAST AND EASY HURRY!!!!
Make Money Fast

A little while back, I was browsing these newsgroups, just like you are
now, and came across an article similar to this that said you could
make thousands of dollars within weeks with only an initial investment
of $6.00!

So I thought," Yeah, right, this must be a scam", but like most of us,
but I was curious, so I kept reading. Anyway, it said that you send
$1.00 to each of the 6 names and address stated in the article. You
then place your own name and address in the bottom of the list at #6,
and post the article in at least 200 newsgroups. (There are thousands)
No catch, that was it. The main difference between this system and
others is that you have a mailing list of 6 instead of 5... This means
that your average gain will be app. 15 times higher!!! So after
thinking it over, and talking to a few people first, I thought about
trying it. I figured what have I got to lose except 6 stamps and $6.00,
right? Like most of us I was a little skeptical and a little worried
about the legal aspects of it all.

So I checked it out with the U.S. Post Office (1-800-725-2161) and they
confirmed that it is indeed legal! Then I invested the measly
$6.00.............plus postage. Well GUESS WHAT!!... within 7 days, I
started getting money in the mail!
I was shocked! I still figured it would end soon, and didn't give it
another thought. But the money just kept coming in. In my first week, I
made about $20.00 to $30.00 dollars. By the end of the second week I
had made a total of over $1,000.00!!!!!! In the third week I had over
$10,000.00 and it's still growing. This is now my fourth week and I
have made a total of just over $42,000.00 and it's still coming in
rapidly....... It's certainly worth $6.00, and 6 stamps, I spent more
than that on the lottery!! Let me tell you how this works and most
importantly, why it works.... also, make sure you print a copy of this
article NOW, so you can get the information off of it as you need it.

The process is very simple and consists of 3 easy steps:
STEP 1: Get 6 separate pieces of paper and write the following on each
piece of paper "PLEASE PUT ME ON YOUR MAILING LIST." And your name and
address.Now get 6 US$1.00 bills (or equivalent in your local currency)
and place ONE inside EACH of the 6 pieces of paper so the bill will not
be seen through the envelope to prevent thievery. Next, place one paper
in each of the 6 envelopes and seal them. You should now have 6 sealed
envelopes, each with a piece of paper stating the above phrase, your
name and address, and a $1.00 bill. What you are doing is creating a
service by this. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY LEGAL!

Mail the 6 envelopes to the following addresses:



#1 Julia Burries
5660 Flowes Store rd
Concod NC 28025
USA

#2 Sara Bowen
37 Odonnell Ave
MT Albert,
Auckland, New Zealand

#3 Jedidiah Knopf
12341 S. Solon Rd
Cedar, MI 49621
USA

#4 Yanti Ainul
20-4A Fairwood Drive
Rochester, NY 14623
USA

#5 L.M. Crowley
P.O. Box 467
Baddeck, Nova Scotia
B0E 1B0
Canada

#6 Lana Langley
1475 Ketch Harbour Road
Sambro Head, Nova Scotia
B3V 1L3
Canada


STEP 2: Now take the #1 name off the list that you see above, move the
other names up (6 becomes 5, 5 becomes 4, etc...) and add YOUR Name as
number 6 on the list. (Use your 'delete" key to remove name #1 and move
all other names up. Then change numbers and add your name as #6)

STEP 3: Change anything you need to, but try to keep this article as
close to original as possible. Now, post your amended article to at
least 200 newsgroups. (I think there is close to 24,000 groups) All you
need is 200, but remember, the more you post, the more money you make!
Don't know HOW to post in the newsgroups? Well do exactly the
following:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
DIRECTIONS - HOW TO POST TO NEWSGROUPS
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Step 1. You do not need to re-type this entire letter to do your own
posting. Simply put your cursor at the beginning of this letter and
click and hold down your mouse button. While continuing to hold down
the mouse button, drag your cursor to the bottom of this document and
over to just after the last character, and release the mouse button. At
this point the entire letter should be highlighted. Then, from the
'edit' pull down menu at the top of your screen select 'copy'. This
will copy the entire letter into the computers memory.
Step 2. Open a blank 'notepad' file and place your cursor at the top of
the blank page. From the 'edit' pull down menu select 'paste'. This
will paste a copy of the letter into notepad so that you can add your
name to the list. Remember to eliminate the #1 position, move everyone
up a spot (re-number everyone else's positions), and add yourself in as
#6.
Step 3. Save your new notepad file as a .txt file. If you want to do
your postings in different sittings, you'll always have this file to go
back to.
--------------------------------------------------
INTERNET EXPLORER USERS:
--------------------------------------------------
Step 4. Go to newsgroups and select 'Post an Article'.
Step 5. Fill in the subject.
Step 6. Open this letter from notepad program, copy and paste into
newsgroup.
Step 7. Hit the 'Post' button.
-------------------------------------------
THAT'S IT! All you have to do is jump to different newsgroups and post
away, after you get the hang of it, it will take about 30 seconds for
each newsgroup!
**REMEMBER, THE MORE NEWSGROUPS YOU POST IN, THE MORE MONEY YOU
WILL MAKE!! BUT YOU HAVE TO POST A MINIMUM OF 200**
That's it! You will begin receiving money from around the world within
day's! You may eventually want to rent a P.O. Box due to the large
amount of mail you receive. If you wish to stay anonymous, you can
invent a name to use, as long as the postman will deliver it. **JUST
MAKE SURE ALL THE ADDRESSES ARE CORRECT.**

Now the WHY part:
Out of 200 postings, say I receive only 5 replies (a very low example).
So then I made $5.00 with my name at #6 on the letter. Now, each of the
5 persons who just sent me $1.00 make the MINIMUM 200 postings, each
with my name at #5 and only 5 persons respond to each of the original
5, that is another $25.00 for me, now those 25 each make 200 MINIMUM
posts with my
name at #4 and only 5 replies each, I will bring in an additional
$125.00! Now, those 125 persons turn around and post the MINIMUM 200
with my name at #3 and only receive 5 replies each, I will make an
additional $626.00! OK, now here is the fun part, each of those 625
persons post a MINIMUM 200 letters with my name at #2 and they each
only receive 5 replies, that just made me $3,125.00!!! Those 3,125
persons will all deliver this message to 200 newsgroups with my name at
#1 and if still 5 persons per 200 newsgroups react I will receive
$15,625,00! With a original investment of only $6.00! AMAZING! And as I
said 5 responses is actually VERY LOW! Average is probable 20 to 30! So
lets put those figures at just 15 responses per person.

Here is what you will make:
at #6 $15.00
at #5 $225.00
at #4 $3,375.00
at #3 $50,625.00
at #2 $759,375.00
at #1 $11,390,625.00

When your name is no longer on the list, you just take the latest
posting in the newsgroups, and send out another $6.00 to names on the
list, putting your name at number 6 again. And start posting again. The
thing to remember is, do you realize that thousands of people all over
the world are joining the internet and reading these articles everyday,
JUST LIKE YOU are now!!
So can you afford $6.00 and see if it really works?? I think so...
People have said, "what if the plan is played out and no one sends you
the money? So what! What are the chances of that happening when there
are tons of new honest users and new honest people who are joining the
internet and newsgroups everyday and are willing to give it a try?
Estimates are at 20,000 to 50,000 new users, everyday, with thousands
of those joining the actual internet. Remember, play FAIRLY and
HONESTLY and this will work. You just have to be honest. Make sure you
print this article out RIGHT NOW, also. Try to keep a list of everyone
that sends you money and always keep an eye on the newsgroups to make
sure everyone is playing fairly. Remember,

HONESTY IS THE BEST POLICY. You don't need to cheat the basic idea to
make the money!! GOOD LUCK to all and please play fairly and reap the
huge rewards from this, which is tons of extra CASH. TRUST ME IT DOES
WORK!

------------------------------

Date: 15 Feb 2005 16:12:28 -0800
From: lanalangley@eastlink.ca
Subject: This Really Works!
Message-ID: <1108512748.630099.145380@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

Money making chain letter!
MAKE MONEY FAST AND EASY HURRY!!!!
Make Money Fast

A little while back, I was browsing these newsgroups, just like you are
now, and came across an article similar to this that said you could
make thousands of dollars within weeks with only an initial investment
of $6.00!

So I thought," Yeah, right, this must be a scam", but like most of us,
but I was curious, so I kept reading. Anyway, it said that you send
$1.00 to each of the 6 names and address stated in the article. You
then place your own name and address in the bottom of the list at #6,
and post the article in at least 200 newsgroups. (There are thousands)
No catch, that was it. The main difference between this system and
others is that you have a mailing list of 6 instead of 5... This means
that your average gain will be app. 15 times higher!!! So after
thinking it over, and talking to a few people first, I thought about
trying it. I figured what have I got to lose except 6 stamps and $6.00,
right? Like most of us I was a little skeptical and a little worried
about the legal aspects of it all.

So I checked it out with the U.S. Post Office (1-800-725-2161) and they
confirmed that it is indeed legal! Then I invested the measly
$6.00.............plus postage. Well GUESS WHAT!!... within 7 days, I
started getting money in the mail!
I was shocked! I still figured it would end soon, and didn't give it
another thought. But the money just kept coming in. In my first week, I
made about $20.00 to $30.00 dollars. By the end of the second week I
had made a total of over $1,000.00!!!!!! In the third week I had over
$10,000.00 and it's still growing. This is now my fourth week and I
have made a total of just over $42,000.00 and it's still coming in
rapidly....... It's certainly worth $6.00, and 6 stamps, I spent more
than that on the lottery!! Let me tell you how this works and most
importantly, why it works.... also, make sure you print a copy of this
article NOW, so you can get the information off of it as you need it.

The process is very simple and consists of 3 easy steps:
STEP 1: Get 6 separate pieces of paper and write the following on each
piece of paper "PLEASE PUT ME ON YOUR MAILING LIST." And your name and
address.Now get 6 US$1.00 bills (or equivalent in your local currency)
and place ONE inside EACH of the 6 pieces of paper so the bill will not
be seen through the envelope to prevent thievery. Next, place one paper
in each of the 6 envelopes and seal them. You should now have 6 sealed
envelopes, each with a piece of paper stating the above phrase, your
name and address, and a $1.00 bill. What you are doing is creating a
service by this. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY LEGAL!

Mail the 6 envelopes to the following addresses:



#1 Julia Burries
5660 Flowes Store rd
Concod NC 28025
USA

#2 Sara Bowen
37 Odonnell Ave
MT Albert,
Auckland, New Zealand

#3 Jedidiah Knopf
12341 S. Solon Rd
Cedar, MI 49621
USA

#4 Yanti Ainul
20-4A Fairwood Drive
Rochester, NY 14623
USA

#5 L.M. Crowley
P.O. Box 467
Baddeck, Nova Scotia
B0E 1B0
Canada

#6 Lana Langley
1475 Ketch Harbour Road
Sambro Head, Nova Scotia
B3V 1L3
Canada


STEP 2: Now take the #1 name off the list that you see above, move the
other names up (6 becomes 5, 5 becomes 4, etc...) and add YOUR Name as
number 6 on the list. (Use your 'delete" key to remove name #1 and move
all other names up. Then change numbers and add your name as #6)

STEP 3: Change anything you need to, but try to keep this article as
close to original as possible. Now, post your amended article to at
least 200 newsgroups. (I think there is close to 24,000 groups) All you
need is 200, but remember, the more you post, the more money you make!
Don't know HOW to post in the newsgroups? Well do exactly the
following:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
DIRECTIONS - HOW TO POST TO NEWSGROUPS
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Step 1. You do not need to re-type this entire letter to do your own
posting. Simply put your cursor at the beginning of this letter and
click and hold down your mouse button. While continuing to hold down
the mouse button, drag your cursor to the bottom of this document and
over to just after the last character, and release the mouse button. At
this point the entire letter should be highlighted. Then, from the
'edit' pull down menu at the top of your screen select 'copy'. This
will copy the entire letter into the computers memory.
Step 2. Open a blank 'notepad' file and place your cursor at the top of
the blank page. From the 'edit' pull down menu select 'paste'. This
will paste a copy of the letter into notepad so that you can add your
name to the list. Remember to eliminate the #1 position, move everyone
up a spot (re-number everyone else's positions), and add yourself in as
#6.
Step 3. Save your new notepad file as a .txt file. If you want to do
your postings in different sittings, you'll always have this file to go
back to.
--------------------------------------------------
INTERNET EXPLORER USERS:
--------------------------------------------------
Step 4. Go to newsgroups and select 'Post an Article'.
Step 5. Fill in the subject.
Step 6. Open this letter from notepad program, copy and paste into
newsgroup.
Step 7. Hit the 'Post' button.
-------------------------------------------
THAT'S IT! All you have to do is jump to different newsgroups and post
away, after you get the hang of it, it will take about 30 seconds for
each newsgroup!
**REMEMBER, THE MORE NEWSGROUPS YOU POST IN, THE MORE MONEY YOU
WILL MAKE!! BUT YOU HAVE TO POST A MINIMUM OF 200**
That's it! You will begin receiving money from around the world within
day's! You may eventually want to rent a P.O. Box due to the large
amount of mail you receive. If you wish to stay anonymous, you can
invent a name to use, as long as the postman will deliver it. **JUST
MAKE SURE ALL THE ADDRESSES ARE CORRECT.**

Now the WHY part:
Out of 200 postings, say I receive only 5 replies (a very low example).
So then I made $5.00 with my name at #6 on the letter. Now, each of the
5 persons who just sent me $1.00 make the MINIMUM 200 postings, each
with my name at #5 and only 5 persons respond to each of the original
5, that is another $25.00 for me, now those 25 each make 200 MINIMUM
posts with my
name at #4 and only 5 replies each, I will bring in an additional
$125.00! Now, those 125 persons turn around and post the MINIMUM 200
with my name at #3 and only receive 5 replies each, I will make an
additional $626.00! OK, now here is the fun part, each of those 625
persons post a MINIMUM 200 letters with my name at #2 and they each
only receive 5 replies, that just made me $3,125.00!!! Those 3,125
persons will all deliver this message to 200 newsgroups with my name at
#1 and if still 5 persons per 200 newsgroups react I will receive
$15,625,00! With a original investment of only $6.00! AMAZING! And as I
said 5 responses is actually VERY LOW! Average is probable 20 to 30! So
lets put those figures at just 15 responses per person.

Here is what you will make:
at #6 $15.00
at #5 $225.00
at #4 $3,375.00
at #3 $50,625.00
at #2 $759,375.00
at #1 $11,390,625.00

When your name is no longer on the list, you just take the latest
posting in the newsgroups, and send out another $6.00 to names on the
list, putting your name at number 6 again. And start posting again. The
thing to remember is, do you realize that thousands of people all over
the world are joining the internet and reading these articles everyday,
JUST LIKE YOU are now!!
So can you afford $6.00 and see if it really works?? I think so...
People have said, "what if the plan is played out and no one sends you
the money? So what! What are the chances of that happening when there
are tons of new honest users and new honest people who are joining the
internet and newsgroups everyday and are willing to give it a try?
Estimates are at 20,000 to 50,000 new users, everyday, with thousands
of those joining the actual internet. Remember, play FAIRLY and
HONESTLY and this will work. You just have to be honest. Make sure you
print this article out RIGHT NOW, also. Try to keep a list of everyone
that sends you money and always keep an eye on the newsgroups to make
sure everyone is playing fairly. Remember,

HONESTY IS THE BEST POLICY. You don't need to cheat the basic idea to
make the money!! GOOD LUCK to all and please play fairly and reap the
huge rewards from this, which is tons of extra CASH. TRUST ME IT DOES
WORK!

------------------------------

Date: 15 Feb 2005 16:13:14 -0800
From: lanalangley@eastlink.ca
Subject: This Really Works!
Message-ID: <1108512794.645039.211270@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>

Money making chain letter!
MAKE MONEY FAST AND EASY HURRY!!!!
Make Money Fast

A little while back, I was browsing these newsgroups, just like you are
now, and came across an article similar to this that said you could
make thousands of dollars within weeks with only an initial investment
of $6.00!

So I thought," Yeah, right, this must be a scam", but like most of us,
but I was curious, so I kept reading. Anyway, it said that you send
$1.00 to each of the 6 names and address stated in the article. You
then place your own name and address in the bottom of the list at #6,
and post the article in at least 200 newsgroups. (There are thousands)
No catch, that was it. The main difference between this system and
others is that you have a mailing list of 6 instead of 5... This means
that your average gain will be app. 15 times higher!!! So after
thinking it over, and talking to a few people first, I thought about
trying it. I figured what have I got to lose except 6 stamps and $6.00,
right? Like most of us I was a little skeptical and a little worried
about the legal aspects of it all.

So I checked it out with the U.S. Post Office (1-800-725-2161) and they
confirmed that it is indeed legal! Then I invested the measly
$6.00.............plus postage. Well GUESS WHAT!!... within 7 days, I
started getting money in the mail!
I was shocked! I still figured it would end soon, and didn't give it
another thought. But the money just kept coming in. In my first week, I
made about $20.00 to $30.00 dollars. By the end of the second week I
had made a total of over $1,000.00!!!!!! In the third week I had over
$10,000.00 and it's still growing. This is now my fourth week and I
have made a total of just over $42,000.00 and it's still coming in
rapidly....... It's certainly worth $6.00, and 6 stamps, I spent more
than that on the lottery!! Let me tell you how this works and most
importantly, why it works.... also, make sure you print a copy of this
article NOW, so you can get the information off of it as you need it.

The process is very simple and consists of 3 easy steps:
STEP 1: Get 6 separate pieces of paper and write the following on each
piece of paper "PLEASE PUT ME ON YOUR MAILING LIST." And your name and
address.Now get 6 US$1.00 bills (or equivalent in your local currency)
and place ONE inside EACH of the 6 pieces of paper so the bill will not
be seen through the envelope to prevent thievery. Next, place one paper
in each of the 6 envelopes and seal them. You should now have 6 sealed
envelopes, each with a piece of paper stating the above phrase, your
name and address, and a $1.00 bill. What you are doing is creating a
service by this. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY LEGAL!

Mail the 6 envelopes to the following addresses:



#1 Julia Burries
5660 Flowes Store rd
Concod NC 28025
USA

#2 Sara Bowen
37 Odonnell Ave
MT Albert,
Auckland, New Zealand

#3 Jedidiah Knopf
12341 S. Solon Rd
Cedar, MI 49621
USA

#4 Yanti Ainul
20-4A Fairwood Drive
Rochester, NY 14623
USA

#5 L.M. Crowley
P.O. Box 467
Baddeck, Nova Scotia
B0E 1B0
Canada

#6 Lana Langley
1475 Ketch Harbour Road
Sambro Head, Nova Scotia
B3V 1L3
Canada


STEP 2: Now take the #1 name off the list that you see above, move the
other names up (6 becomes 5, 5 becomes 4, etc...) and add YOUR Name as
number 6 on the list. (Use your 'delete" key to remove name #1 and move
all other names up. Then change numbers and add your name as #6)

STEP 3: Change anything you need to, but try to keep this article as
close to original as possible. Now, post your amended article to at
least 200 newsgroups. (I think there is close to 24,000 groups) All you
need is 200, but remember, the more you post, the more money you make!
Don't know HOW to post in the newsgroups? Well do exactly the
following:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
DIRECTIONS - HOW TO POST TO NEWSGROUPS
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Step 1. You do not need to re-type this entire letter to do your own
posting. Simply put your cursor at the beginning of this letter and
click and hold down your mouse button. While continuing to hold down
the mouse button, drag your cursor to the bottom of this document and
over to just after the last character, and release the mouse button. At
this point the entire letter should be highlighted. Then, from the
'edit' pull down menu at the top of your screen select 'copy'. This
will copy the entire letter into the computers memory.
Step 2. Open a blank 'notepad' file and place your cursor at the top of
the blank page. From the 'edit' pull down menu select 'paste'. This
will paste a copy of the letter into notepad so that you can add your
name to the list. Remember to eliminate the #1 position, move everyone
up a spot (re-number everyone else's positions), and add yourself in as
#6.
Step 3. Save your new notepad file as a .txt file. If you want to do
your postings in different sittings, you'll always have this file to go
back to.
--------------------------------------------------
INTERNET EXPLORER USERS:
--------------------------------------------------
Step 4. Go to newsgroups and select 'Post an Article'.
Step 5. Fill in the subject.
Step 6. Open this letter from notepad program, copy and paste into
newsgroup.
Step 7. Hit the 'Post' button.
-------------------------------------------
THAT'S IT! All you have to do is jump to different newsgroups and post
away, after you get the hang of it, it will take about 30 seconds for
each newsgroup!
**REMEMBER, THE MORE NEWSGROUPS YOU POST IN, THE MORE MONEY YOU
WILL MAKE!! BUT YOU HAVE TO POST A MINIMUM OF 200**
That's it! You will begin receiving money from around the world within
day's! You may eventually want to rent a P.O. Box due to the large
amount of mail you receive. If you wish to stay anonymous, you can
invent a name to use, as long as the postman will deliver it. **JUST
MAKE SURE ALL THE ADDRESSES ARE CORRECT.**

Now the WHY part:
Out of 200 postings, say I receive only 5 replies (a very low example).
So then I made $5.00 with my name at #6 on the letter. Now, each of the
5 persons who just sent me $1.00 make the MINIMUM 200 postings, each
with my name at #5 and only 5 persons respond to each of the original
5, that is another $25.00 for me, now those 25 each make 200 MINIMUM
posts with my
name at #4 and only 5 replies each, I will bring in an additional
$125.00! Now, those 125 persons turn around and post the MINIMUM 200
with my name at #3 and only receive 5 replies each, I will make an
additional $626.00! OK, now here is the fun part, each of those 625
persons post a MINIMUM 200 letters with my name at #2 and they each
only receive 5 replies, that just made me $3,125.00!!! Those 3,125
persons will all deliver this message to 200 newsgroups with my name at
#1 and if still 5 persons per 200 newsgroups react I will receive
$15,625,00! With a original investment of only $6.00! AMAZING! And as I
said 5 responses is actually VERY LOW! Average is probable 20 to 30! So
lets put those figures at just 15 responses per person.

Here is what you will make:
at #6 $15.00
at #5 $225.00
at #4 $3,375.00
at #3 $50,625.00
at #2 $759,375.00
at #1 $11,390,625.00

When your name is no longer on the list, you just take the latest
posting in the newsgroups, and send out another $6.00 to names on the
list, putting your name at number 6 again. And start posting again. The
thing to remember is, do you realize that thousands of people all over
the world are joining the internet and reading these articles everyday,
JUST LIKE YOU are now!!
So can you afford $6.00 and see if it really works?? I think so...
People have said, "what if the plan is played out and no one sends you
the money? So what! What are the chances of that happening when there
are tons of new honest users and new honest people who are joining the
internet and newsgroups everyday and are willing to give it a try?
Estimates are at 20,000 to 50,000 new users, everyday, with thousands
of those joining the actual internet. Remember, play FAIRLY and
HONESTLY and this will work. You just have to be honest. Make sure you
print this article out RIGHT NOW, also. Try to keep a list of everyone
that sends you money and always keep an eye on the newsgroups to make
sure everyone is playing fairly. Remember,

HONESTY IS THE BEST POLICY. You don't need to cheat the basic idea to
make the money!! GOOD LUCK to all and please play fairly and reap the
huge rewards from this, which is tons of extra CASH. TRUST ME IT DOES
WORK!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:00:26 +0100
From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de>
Subject: Re: What universities (and the IT Branch) could be doing
Message-ID: <421246cb$0$24924$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>

bob@instantwhip.com wrote:

> question for you Keith ... I emailed IBMs ceo
> and posted the letter I got back in response
> here on this site about a year ago ... IBM
> basically thinks vms is not worth the
> investment ... why?  NIH syndrome (not
> invented here) or just plain stupidity?  Do
> they understand what a market vms on power
> would be?
> 
First of all, I wish to make it entirely clear that I'm not an official 
spokesman for IBM. IBM has clear guidelines concerning which offices can 
make strategic public statements for the company. The letter I believe 
you are referring to is the one you posted here...

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/msg/a218e9bcfad1f267

I would like to note that the context of the letter is whether IBM 
should "buy VMS", that is something different from whether IBM considers 
OpenVMS to be worth investment. As I have noted in earlier postings, IBM 
does "in fact" invest in selected products for the OpenVMS market.

While I accept that the letter from IBM does represent the official view 
of the IBM management, I also think it would be a little naive to t