INFO-VAX Tue, 15 Feb 2005 Volume 2005 : Issue 91 Contents: Re: ACMS - How to determine applications? And you thought those high priced consulting firms were secure... Re: Cluster assembler Re: DCL call to get shadow member status? Re: DCL call to get shadow member status? Re: DCL call to get shadow member status? Re: Fiorina's executioner - HP director Patricia Dunn Re: Fixing Carly's Mess Re: Great newsletter! Re: Great newsletter! Re: Great newsletter! Re: Great newsletter! Re: grep on openVMS? Re: grep on openVMS? Re: grep on openVMS? Re: grep on openVMS? Re: grep on openVMS? I'd heard about this a while back... Re: I'd heard about this a while back... RE: I'd heard about this a while back... Re: I'd heard about this a while back... Re: I'd heard about this a while back... IBM Linux and Universities Re: IBM Linux and Universities RE: IBM Linux and Universities Re: IBM Linux and Universities RE: IBM Linux and Universities LAN Failover Looking for suggestions for bootcamp sessions Re: Looking for suggestions for bootcamp sessions Re: Looking for suggestions for bootcamp sessions Re: Looking for suggestions for bootcamp sessions Marketing changes at HP Re: Marketing changes at HP Re: Marketing changes at HP Re: Marketing changes at HP Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP RE: Mounting disks during STARTUP Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution Re: regular expression support on OpenVMS (was Re: grep on openVMS?) Re: regular expression support on OpenVMS (was Re: grep on openVMS?) Re: SLS dead SONO A PRIX DISCOUNT V6.1 OpenVMS Guide to System Security hardcopy order number Re: V6.1 OpenVMS Guide to System Security hardcopy order number Re: V6.1 OpenVMS Guide to System Security hardcopy order number ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 15:16:11 -0500 From: "B Hall" Subject: Re: ACMS - How to determine applications? Message-ID: "Hein" wrote in message news:1108356175.222234.157020@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com... > Boy, It's been a while that I thought about this. > > ---- > I don't suppose you can find a handy fields in an acms provided record > like ACMS$TASK_INFORMATION? > > ----- > Way back when ACMS would set up logical names ACMS$APPLICATION_NAME and > ACMS$SERVER_NAME that you could query with SYS$TRNLNM > They were undocumented/unsupported back then!Are those still there > perhaps? (SHOW LOG in DCL SERVER?) > > ----- > how about server logicals in the appl def? > Couldn't you define your own as server logicals in your application > definition? For example: > > REPLACE APPLICATION whatever > . > SERVER DEFAULTS ARE > LOGICAL NAME IS > my_application_name = whatever; > END SERVER DEFAULTS; > > ----- > and somewhat lame/hacky... if you guarantee that applications are > started in a particular order, then you could use f$getjpi to examine > the process names, and rely on the fact that ACMS names SP's according > to which EXC "owns" it. Suppose: > ACMS01EXC004000 is the fourth application started > ^ > | for example), then > .----' > V > ACMS004SP001000 ... all SP's running for that appl show > ACMS004 in their process names. Or at least that's how it was back in > 1990 or so. > Maybe turn that around.... just report the process name and let the > operator figure out the application through the audit logs / startup > logs? > > ------ > or some field you load into a record in every application definitions > with an 'action'? > > fwiw, > Hein. > The logicals are still there, ACMS$APPLICATION_NAME and ACMS$SERVER_NAME. You can see them using SDA, setting the process to the server process, then doing a CLUE PROCESS/LOGICAL. You could find the process name using GETJPI and use the ONC RPC calls for the Remote Manager to lookup information for that application name. The Remote Manager calls are documented and supported. There is also an examples directory to show how to use the RPC calls. Bill Hall ACMS Engineering (until 3/31/05) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 20:44:03 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: And you thought those high priced consulting firms were secure... Message-ID: <1108431132.b0f0b1040375eeeb6536b15ef680330f@teranews> The article forgot to mention that SAIC is also a darling of wall street banks because they are so good at security.... Shouldn't there be some data privacy laws that prevent any confidential data from being stored on a PC unless the PC is in a vault ? > http://news.com.com/ID-theft+alert+follows+break-in+at+federal+contractor/2100-1029_3-5575861.html?tag=nefd.top ## Government contractor Science Applications International Corp. warned stockholders on Monday that their personal information may be at risk, after desktop computers holding the information were stolen from the company's offices. The theft happened Jan. 25, according to the company, and affects current and former stockholders. SAIC stressed in its statement that the information may not have been the target. "We have no evidence that the thieves have accessed any personal information on these computers or that the purpose of the crime was identity theft," the company said. Worries about what happens to private data housed in stolen personal computers have been highlighted before. In December, thieves stole a laptop from a California blood bank, putting in jeopardy as many as 100,000 individuals' personal records. Intruders broke into computers at the University of California, Berkeley, last year and filched 1.4 million database records containing identity information. The latest incident is a black eye for SAIC, as the company handles many security contracts for the government. It stressed, however, that the security incident occurred at an administrative facility, not at a building where any government or commercial contracts are handled. The company has also sent e-mail notifications to those affected and has established a help desk to field queries on the matter. "We are troubled that this event has occurred but are working round the clock to mitigate any impact on our stockholders," SAIC said in its release. ## ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 22:05:10 +0100 From: "Hans Vlems" Subject: Re: Cluster assembler Message-ID: <37ci80F5a46biU1@individual.net> "ugex" schreef in bericht news:1108400966.392100.95760@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > Hi Im assembly a cluster scsi with 2 alphas 1000 under ovms 7.3-1 > > I put all my licences for cluster in node one and two and execute in > nodo1 @cluster_config > > I choose > add > decnet node name :nodo2 > decnet addres :2.3 > will nodo2 be a boot server? Y > alloclass:1 > quorumdisk:$1$dka200 > .. > .. > > after answered the questions i saw > > before booting nodo2 you must create a new default bootstrap command > procedure for nodo2 > > Some one knows if I need execute @cluster_config in nodo2 also..? > How can I boot my node2..? >>> boot -fl 0 ? > > What is the best steps for assembly my cluster..? > > Thanks for all your help > If you put a cluster together you should decide what kind of cluster you want: 1 - common system disk for the two nodes 2 - each system uses its own system disk If you run cluster_config the way you did it above it looks like you selected option #1. In that case the questions you omitted suddenly become rather important. You should boot node 2 into the system root you created at node 1, that's the information you skipped, so there's no way to answer the question concerning the boot flags... Hans ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 15:41:04 -0800 From: Ken Fairfield Subject: Re: DCL call to get shadow member status? Message-ID: Bart Zorn wrote: > Ouch! I cannot let this one pass! > > Can you please explain why you use all the single quotes in > > $ MBRSTAT = F$GETDVI(''DSKMBR', "EXISTS") > > The correct syntax is > > $ MBRSTAT = F$GETDVI(DSKMBR, "EXISTS") > > And by the way, can you explain WHY your code still DOES work? [...] It's because the '' gobbles itself up, i.e., is a noop outside of string context. Note that both, $ MBRSTAT = F$GETDDVI(DSKMBR', "EXISTS") and, $ MBRSTAT = F$GETDDVI(''DSKMBR, "EXISTS") also "work" even though the syntax is questionable at best, whereas, $ MBRSTAT = F$GETDDVI('DSKMBR, "EXISTS") fails miserably. It's very interesting what people manage to make "work" in spite of not understanding DCL symbols (and I've seen much worse!)... -Ken -- I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me... Ken Fairfield D1C Automation VMS System Support who: kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 19:32:48 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: DCL call to get shadow member status? Message-ID: <4211513F.40F56D24@comcast.net> Ken Fairfield wrote: > > Bart Zorn wrote: > > > Ouch! I cannot let this one pass! > > > > Can you please explain why you use all the single quotes in > > > > $ MBRSTAT = F$GETDVI(''DSKMBR', "EXISTS") > > > > The correct syntax is > > > > $ MBRSTAT = F$GETDVI(DSKMBR, "EXISTS") > > > > And by the way, can you explain WHY your code still DOES work? > [...] > > It's because the '' gobbles itself up, i.e., is a noop > outside of string context. Note that both, > > $ MBRSTAT = F$GETDDVI(DSKMBR', "EXISTS") > > and, > > $ MBRSTAT = F$GETDDVI(''DSKMBR, "EXISTS") > > also "work" even though the syntax is questionable at best, > whereas, > > $ MBRSTAT = F$GETDDVI('DSKMBR, "EXISTS") > > fails miserably. It's very interesting what people manage > to make "work" in spite of not understanding DCL symbols (and > I've seen much worse!)... Silver star to Ken for his explanation of this harmless syntax faux pas. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Coming soon: Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 03:38:03 GMT From: John Santos Subject: Re: DCL call to get shadow member status? Message-ID: Ken Fairfield wrote: > Bart Zorn wrote: > >> Ouch! I cannot let this one pass! >> >> Can you please explain why you use all the single quotes in >> $ MBRSTAT = F$GETDVI(''DSKMBR', "EXISTS") >> >> The correct syntax is >> >> $ MBRSTAT = F$GETDVI(DSKMBR, "EXISTS") >> >> And by the way, can you explain WHY your code still DOES work? > > [...] > > It's because the '' gobbles itself up, i.e., is a noop > outside of string context. Note that both, > > $ MBRSTAT = F$GETDDVI(DSKMBR', "EXISTS") > > and, > > $ MBRSTAT = F$GETDDVI(''DSKMBR, "EXISTS") > > also "work" even though the syntax is questionable at best, > whereas, > > $ MBRSTAT = F$GETDDVI('DSKMBR, "EXISTS") > > fails miserably. It's very interesting what people manage > to make "work" in spite of not understanding DCL symbols (and > I've seen much worse!)... > > -Ken In a log (batch log or @com/output= log), or if DCL verify is enabled, $ MBRSTAT = F$GETDDVI("''DSKMBR'", "EXISTS") displays the value of DSKMBR in the log, which is sometimes useful. On the other hand $ MBRSTAT = F$GETDDVI(DSKMBR, "EXISTS") makes it clear that the command file is using a symbol for the device name, and what that symbol is, which might make debugging the command file easier. In either case, F$GETDDVI is a typo - the correct lexical is F$GETDVI. -- John Santos Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539 ------------------------------ Date: 14 Feb 2005 13:14:03 -0600 From: kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) Subject: Re: Fiorina's executioner - HP director Patricia Dunn Message-ID: In article <24819cc3.0502132211.79d94623@posting.google.com>, yamahasw40@latinmail.com (Schmuck) writes: > JF Mezei wrote in message news:<1108341472.a0ed1a7efb4972ca9375e9c0e4941e6e@teranews>... > >> At the >> end of the day, Carly as no excuse and must admite that either Compaq >> was a mistake or she is incompetant. > > I reckon the $42Million dollares she walks away with after 5 years as > CEO means she achieved her goal... which was to get filthy stinking > rich. Don't forget the millions she got for pushing through the merger with Compaq. She probably gets some nice freebie finacial services from the German bank that sealed the deal, too. Darn. I wish I had had more charisma and less competency, I too could have been paid huge wads of dough to fail. ;^p ------------------------------ Date: 14 Feb 2005 16:56:55 -0600 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: Fixing Carly's Mess Message-ID: In article <2A1Qd.56210$uL5.19835@fe2.texas.rr.com>, LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) writes: > http://www.business2.com/b2/web/articles/0,17863,1026920,00.html > Business 2.0 :: Online Article :: Working Tech :: Fixing Carly's Mess > > "Fixing Carly's Mess > By Owen Thomas, February 10, 2005 > > [snip] > > HP's high-end server lines, like Integrity and NonStop, have suffered > from years of neglect. Some recent moves, like revamping the Integrity > line and extending support for the VMS operating system, have pointed > in the right direction. More of the same -- much more -- is needed..." Yes, of Carly had been coding instead of all that other stuff the port would have gone a lot quicker. ------------------------------ Date: 14 Feb 2005 17:04:02 -0600 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: Great newsletter! Message-ID: In article <1107932088.246540.113120@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "pbaker" writes: > Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com ------------------------------ Date: 14 Feb 2005 23:33:10 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Great newsletter! Message-ID: <37cqpmF58bo1nU1@individual.net> In article , Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: > In article <1107932088.246540.113120@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "pbaker" writes: > >> Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com I would have thought that by now you had figured out that google doesn't really care one way or the other. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 14 Feb 2005 17:47:57 -0600 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: Great newsletter! Message-ID: In article <37cqpmF58bo1nU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > In article , > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: >> In article <1107932088.246540.113120@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "pbaker" writes: >> >>> Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com > > I would have thought that by now you had figured out that google > doesn't really care one way or the other. They won't if I am the _only_ one complaining. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 00:09:29 -0500 From: "John E. Malmberg" Subject: Re: Great newsletter! Message-ID: Larry Kilgallen wrote: > In article <1107932088.246540.113120@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, > "pbaker" writes: > >>Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Don't forget that the SEC is actively arresting people participating in these Pump and Dump stock promotions. They track them through the stock trades after they get a report to enforcement(at)sec.gov. There is an unconfirmed rumor I saw on one of the anti-spam web sites that most of the domains of one of the ROSKO listed spammers known for having these scams coming out of their netblock went inaccessible today. -John wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 03:53:47 +0800 From: prep@prep.synonet.com Subject: Re: grep on openVMS? Message-ID: <87bramrk8k.fsf@prep.synonet.com> Z writes: > How often do you use the word SUBMIT when talking about something you > need to do in the future? Only when I put a /AFTER at the end of the sentance. -- Paul Repacholi 1 Crescent Rd., +61 (08) 9257-1001 Kalamunda. West Australia 6076 comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked. EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 16:30:39 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: grep on openVMS? Message-ID: <1108415938.d8eef08fbc259e1acab6513f7e9a7e89@teranews> > > How often do you use the word SUBMIT when talking about something you > > need to do in the future? When you submit some paperwork to some government organisation for processing :-) ------------------------------ Date: 14 Feb 2005 16:45:09 -0600 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: grep on openVMS? Message-ID: <$9h6ROAivwnk@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <7BUPd.1454$6o.1155@fe07.lga>, Z writes: > Really? > > How often do you use the word SUBMIT when talking about something you > need to do in the future? I use it mainly for something someone _else_ needs (in my opinion) to do in the future. This month I need to submit my passport renewal. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 19:24:29 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: grep on openVMS? Message-ID: <42114F4D.29C0BB19@comcast.net> Larry Kilgallen wrote: > > In article , Z writes: > > David J Dachtera wrote: > > >> "rm" ... "DELETE" > >> "vi" ... "EDIT" > >> "cd" ... "SET DEFAULT" > >> "ls" ... "DIRECTORY" > >> "tar" ... "BACKUP" > >> "cat" ... "TYPE" > >> "man" ... "HELP" > >> "ps" ... "SHOW SYSTEM" > >> "lpr" ... "PRINT" > >> "at" ... "SUBMIT" > >> (Guess you can tell that at some point I just looked at my HELP display > >> and picked out some of the more obviously "intuitive" UN*X-land > >> commands, eh? ;-) > > > > Again, the VMS commands are more meaningful to you only because of your > > past VMS experience. > > No, actually the VMS commands are more meaningful due to past experience > with the English language. Those from some countries might not find that > helpful, but unless David has been fooling us all this time, he is from > the United States. Da, Comrade! -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Coming soon: Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 19:12:03 +0100 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) Subject: Re: grep on openVMS? Message-ID: <4210e9f3.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > "Alex Daniels" writes: >> And UNIX arguments are not even worth a comparison of intuitiveness' >> compared to VMS qualifiers. > > Again, matter of opinion. It should be noted, however, that this is > changing, even as we speak. More and more Unix commands today have > full word qualifiers as well as the typical single letter one's many > of us ar familiar with and like. :-) > > For example: [cpio with long options snipped] But then, you can't abbreviate those on *ix - an awful lot of typing, that. cu, Martin -- | Martin Vorlaender | OpenVMS rules! Microsoft isn't the Borg: | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de the Borg have proper | http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ networking. | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 15:57:14 -0500 From: "John Smith" Subject: I'd heard about this a while back... Message-ID: but didn't know it had come so far along http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1761779,00.asp Maybe the RTR folks ought to get involved, maybe the VMS folks too. -- OpenVMS - The classics never go out of style. ------------------------------ Date: 14 Feb 2005 14:19:19 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.com Subject: Re: I'd heard about this a while back... Message-ID: <1108419559.420578.20180@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> "We now need something that's not proprietary. Banks don't like proprietary things," Davies told eWEEK during an interview at the Web Services on Wall Street Show & Conference here last week. no wonder we are in trouble ... just wait until a major security breach hits ... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 20:05:05 -0500 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: I'd heard about this a while back... Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: bob@instantwhip.com [mailto:bob@instantwhip.com]=20 > Sent: February 14, 2005 5:19 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: I'd heard about this a while back... >=20 > "We now need something that's not proprietary. Banks don't like > proprietary things," Davies told eWEEK during an interview at the Web > Services on Wall Street Show & Conference here last week. >=20 >=20 > no wonder we are in trouble ... just wait until a > major security breach hits ... >=20 Yeah, I love those "spokesman" who like to use the "P" word as if it is a bad thing. Journalists should jump all over spokespeople like this and ask them what their idea of proprietary really is.=20 Imho, a non-proprietary OS is any platform whereby you can get kernel level fixes from more than one source. Anybody know of any OS platform that meets this criteria? :-) Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20 "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 21:18:44 -0500 From: "John Smith" Subject: Re: I'd heard about this a while back... Message-ID: Main, Kerry wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: bob@instantwhip.com [mailto:bob@instantwhip.com] >> Sent: February 14, 2005 5:19 PM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >> Subject: Re: I'd heard about this a while back... >> >> "We now need something that's not proprietary. Banks don't like >> proprietary things," Davies told eWEEK during an interview at the Web >> Services on Wall Street Show & Conference here last week. >> >> >> no wonder we are in trouble ... just wait until a >> major security breach hits ... >> > > Yeah, I love those "spokesman" who like to use the "P" word as if it > is a bad thing. Journalists should jump all over spokespeople like > this and ask them what their idea of proprietary really is. > > Imho, a non-proprietary OS is any platform whereby you can get kernel > level fixes from more than one source. > > Anybody know of any OS platform that meets this criteria? I just love how this group picks up on journalistic faux pas without seeing the real issue....what little of the market VMS still has in financial services will whither away at a faster rate if initiatives such as this 'open source' AMQ are not embraced in the VMS camp, or indeed a whole littany of similar issues in many different industries. -- OpenVMS - The classics never go out of style. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 22:48:53 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: I'd heard about this a while back... Message-ID: <1108438613.e0fbb4cccb6fd0c2b58e4acaea16700a@teranews> John Smith wrote: > I just love how this group picks up on journalistic faux pas without seeing > the real issue....what little of the market VMS still has in financial > services will whither away at a faster rate if initiatives such as this > 'open source' AMQ are not embraced in the VMS camp, or indeed a whole > littany of similar issues in many different industries. It's all about leadership. Companies with leadership will embark on such projects to lead it and get it off the ground. Others just wait to see if the project gets off the ground, and in many cases, will be very late to market and will have missed the boat. HP is out of the leadership game. They are just the hands of microsoft/intel's leadership. And VMS is certaintly not a priority for HP. What is not known is how much initiative/freedom VMS management have within HP to enter into such projects as the AMQ thing. And of course, how much leaway they have with regards to budgets. Consider that they don't even know if they'll have budget to release 8.2 for VAX. Consider they doN't have budgets to upgrade software such as Xwindows/Motif, don't have enough budget to develop sound drivers for IA64. So the lack of budget to participate in leadershiop budgets is understandable. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:30:06 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: IBM Linux and Universities Message-ID: <1108419500.1e59cf81d7637abaee65f56d38a2179c@teranews> > http://news.com.com/IBM+taking+open+source+on+world+tour/2100-1029_3-5575099.html?tag=nefd.lede ## Buoyed by the success of cooperative ventures promoting Linux in Brazil and a few other developing countries, IBM plans to spread its open-source philosophy to other parts of the globe in 2005. The program involves sponsoring faculty awards at universities, erecting Linux competency centers where local application developers can hone their skills, and collaborating with venture capitalists to form indigenous start-ups that in turn could become the bedrock for local, autonomous IT activity. ## The article mentions how IBM is focusing on emerging markets with good education such as Russia to develop and "catch" skills to foster a greater ecosystem fotr Linux which IBM can then use to market its wares/services. (You know stuff Digital used to do in the early 1980s). The Linux train is greally gathering steam. If the new HP CEO doesn't show some real interest in reviving VMS, perhaps it is time to jump ship before the Linux train leaves town with so much momentum it will be unstoppable. ------------------------------ Date: 14 Feb 2005 14:20:52 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.com Subject: Re: IBM Linux and Universities Message-ID: <1108419652.076828.256650@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> no thanks ... I wouldn't want to be on that linux train when it jumps the track ... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 20:13:50 -0500 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: IBM Linux and Universities Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com]=20 > Sent: February 14, 2005 5:30 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: IBM Linux and Universities >=20 > >=20 > http://news.com.com/IBM+taking+open+source+on+world+tour/2100- > 1029_3-5575099.html?tag=3Dnefd.lede > ## > Buoyed by the success of cooperative ventures promoting Linux=20 > in Brazil > and a few other developing countries, IBM plans to spread its > open-source philosophy to other parts of the globe in 2005. >=20 > The program involves sponsoring faculty awards at=20 > universities, erecting > Linux competency centers where local application developers can hone > their skills, and collaborating with venture capitalists to form > indigenous start-ups that in turn could become the bedrock for local, > autonomous IT activity. > ## >=20 >=20 > The article mentions how IBM is focusing on emerging markets with good > education such as Russia to develop and "catch" skills to foster a > greater ecosystem fotr Linux which IBM can then use to market its > wares/services. (You know stuff Digital used to do in the=20 > early 1980s). >=20 >=20 > The Linux train is greally gathering steam. If the new HP CEO doesn't > show some real interest in reviving VMS, perhaps it is time=20 > to jump ship > before the Linux train leaves town with so much momentum it=20 > will be unstoppable. >=20 Yeah, reminds me of the hype around Windows about 6-7 years ago when the great analysts of the time were predicting that something like 70-80% of all servers would be running Windows by the year 2003/4.=20 I am all for more VMS marketing, but otoh, history has shown that industry hype around things like Linux (or Windows) does not mean it will come true. =20 :-) Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20 "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .." =20 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 21:13:41 -0500 From: "John Smith" Subject: Re: IBM Linux and Universities Message-ID: <_56dnQoB0IxFx4zfRVn-pg@igs.net> Main, Kerry wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com] >> Sent: February 14, 2005 5:30 PM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >> Subject: IBM Linux and Universities >> >>> >> http://news.com.com/IBM+taking+open+source+on+world+tour/2100- >> 1029_3-5575099.html?tag=nefd.lede >> ## >> Buoyed by the success of cooperative ventures promoting Linux >> in Brazil >> and a few other developing countries, IBM plans to spread its >> open-source philosophy to other parts of the globe in 2005. >> >> The program involves sponsoring faculty awards at >> universities, erecting >> Linux competency centers where local application developers can hone >> their skills, and collaborating with venture capitalists to form >> indigenous start-ups that in turn could become the bedrock for local, >> autonomous IT activity. >> ## >> >> >> The article mentions how IBM is focusing on emerging markets with >> good education such as Russia to develop and "catch" skills to >> foster a greater ecosystem fotr Linux which IBM can then use to >> market its wares/services. (You know stuff Digital used to do in the >> early 1980s). >> >> >> The Linux train is greally gathering steam. If the new HP CEO doesn't >> show some real interest in reviving VMS, perhaps it is time >> to jump ship >> before the Linux train leaves town with so much momentum it >> will be unstoppable. >> > > Yeah, reminds me of the hype around Windows about 6-7 years ago when > the great analysts of the time were predicting that something like > 70-80% of all servers would be running Windows by the year 2003/4. Ah, Kerry? .... they are ...in case you hadn't noticed. > I am all for more VMS marketing, but otoh, history has shown that > industry hype around things like Linux (or Windows) does not mean it > will come true. I don't know what kind of Kool Aid they serve in the company cafeteria up in Kanata, but you've been drink too much of it. Wake up....come out of the Diefenbunker (a Great White North code word) and look around....it is true. It sure isn't pretty or necessarily effective but it's all around. Yes, too bad there isn't VMS advertising, but the budget for that walked out the door in the form of the Coiffed Cute One's golden parachute. -- OpenVMS - The classics never go out of style. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 23:08:07 -0500 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: IBM Linux and Universities Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]=20 > Sent: February 14, 2005 9:14 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: IBM Linux and Universities >=20 [snip ...] > > > > Yeah, reminds me of the hype around Windows about 6-7 years ago when > > the great analysts of the time were predicting that something like > > 70-80% of all servers would be running Windows by the year 2003/4. >=20 >=20 > Ah, Kerry? .... they are ...in case you hadn't noticed. >=20 Yeah, if you are talking file-print/web/ bit of SQL server stuff. Not in my world which is mid-high end critical stuff .. Sure Windows has a bit of a presence there, but also lots of UNIX, mainframe, VMS, NSK etc. Surely you are not saying that Windows is 80% of ALL mission critical stuff? To put things in perspective, about 4 years ago, I went to CA World - 17,000 people attended. About 3/4 of the sessions I had no idea of what they were about (80% mainframe sessions). Ok, so 4 years ago is a bit dated, but it really opened my eyes to an entire world out there that most people have no insight into i.e. how big that "other world" really is. Heck, at one of my consolidation engagements last year, the Cust had 600 Wintel servers and their target was in the 250 range. The Wintel market is the number one consolidation target by almost all med-large Cust's right now. Yes, Windows will have a place. Yes, Linux will have a place. However, any analyst that thinks a single platform is going to completely dominate in the next few years is dreaming in techno-colour. Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20 "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .." ------------------------------ Date: 14 Feb 2005 11:53:16 -0800 From: Ouk@netscape.net Subject: LAN Failover Message-ID: <1108410796.171685.101350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> Hi, I've been asked to evaluate the possibility of using the LAN Failover functionality that arrived in 7.3-2. I'm familiar with NetRAIN in a Tru64 environment and from the descriptions I've read so far, it would appear similar. The 7.3-2 New Features manual gives an overview and suggests reading the System Manager's Manual, the System Management Utilities Reference Manual and the I/O User's Reference Manual. These guides (although there appears to be no mention of LAN Failover in the I/O Users Reference Guide) give an overview and detail how to create a failover set, but miss out a lot of the background detail. EG: * What changes are made to the MAC address when the NICs are added to a set? * How does the mechanism that detects a NIC failure work? * Recommended MAC address aging times for connected ethernet switches? Can anyone point me to any documentation on LAN Failover that I've missed? Is anyone aware of any known problems with running DECNet, TCP/IP, LLC2 or GAP on top a Lan Failover set? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 22:21:07 GMT From: John Reagan Subject: Looking for suggestions for bootcamp sessions Message-ID: Sue stopped by my office and asked if I was going to submit any sessions for this years technical bootcamp. She's collecting submissions now. Inside of just guessing what people might want to see from me, I thought I'd ask this group and hope for some reasonable comments. At last years bootcamp, I have a 1.5hr session on the Itanium instruction set (or at least the quick summary of the instructios you're likely to see from the compilers), a 1hr session on How To Read A Machine Code Listing which mostly deals with linker relocations, address constants, calling sequences, etc., and a session on compiler comparsion between OpenVMS Alpha and OpenVMS I64 (which is mostly C and C++ material). So, should I repeat these? Now that V8.2 is really out there and more people might have real experience, these certainly still might be reasonable. Any other compiler-related topic you might want to see? -- John Reagan HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leader Hewlett-Packard Company ------------------------------ Date: 14 Feb 2005 17:07:48 -0600 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: Looking for suggestions for bootcamp sessions Message-ID: In article , John Reagan writes: > Any other compiler-related topic you might want to see? An in-depth look at ELF, DWARF and the VMS extensions thereto. (I think that is either 3 or 4 sessions, and it is certainly possible I am the only one interested :-). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 18:16:35 -0800 From: Alan Frisbie Subject: Re: Looking for suggestions for bootcamp sessions Message-ID: <1108433709.756565@smirk> Larry Kilgallen wrote: > In article , John Reagan > writes: >> Any other compiler-related topic you might want to see? > An in-depth look at ELF, DWARF and the VMS extensions thereto. > (I think that is either 3 or 4 sessions, and it is certainly > possible I am the only one interested :-). I would also attend this, but I'm just as crazy as Larry. :-) Alan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 03:05:57 GMT From: "Ken Randell" Subject: Re: Looking for suggestions for bootcamp sessions Message-ID: I'd make it a third for the ELF stuff. Perhaps something about compiler performance -- instead of the stuff you now get with the HP 7.1 C++ release notes -- your images will be bigger, but we don't have any guidelines except to raise PGFLQUOTA. In case you have influence in other areas, other topics of interest to me: 1) EFI booting -- what's really happening under the hood in say VMS_LOADER.EFI 2) C-RTL futures -- when will I get a spoon with my fork (poor joke, I know) 3) How long are you going to sell new Alphas? 4) APACHE/TOMCAT futures ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 20:49:42 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Marketing changes at HP Message-ID: <1108431466.f376655cbcfae0b4b321ad0e70537bdc@teranews> Allison Johnson has left HP to go (back) to Apple. > http://news.com.com/HP+exec+follows+Fiorina+out+the+door/2100-1010_3-5575413.html?tag=nefd.top ## Allison Johnson, HP's senior vice president of marketing, was one of Fiorina's closest advisers at the company, having led the company's public-relations campaign during the contentious proxy battle over the acquisition of Compaq Computer as well as the "+HP = everything is possible" advertising campaign that followed the deal's closure. ## And now , for the good news: ## In an e-mail to staff Monday afternoon, Chief Marketing Officer Mike Winkler said that for the time being, the leadership of HP's corporate marketing team will report to him. He also reiterated that Johnson's move was planned prior to Fiorina's resignation. ## ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 20:03:41 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Marketing changes at HP Message-ID: <4211587D.25E9DD36@comcast.net> JF Mezei wrote: > > Allison Johnson has left HP to go (back) to Apple. > > > http://news.com.com/HP+exec+follows+Fiorina+out+the+door/2100-1010_3-5575413.html?tag=nefd.top > > ## > Allison Johnson, HP's senior vice president of marketing, was one of > Fiorina's closest advisers at the company, having led the company's > public-relations campaign during the contentious proxy battle over the > acquisition of Compaq Computer as well as the "+HP = everything is > possible" advertising campaign that followed the deal's closure. > ## > > And now , for the good news: > > ## > In an e-mail to staff Monday afternoon, Chief Marketing Officer Mike > Winkler said that for the time being, the leadership of HP's corporate > marketing team will report to him. He also reiterated that Johnson's > move was planned prior to Fiorina's resignation. > ## It's only good news when Winkler or someone else announces the number of hundreds of millions HP is going to pour into VMS promotional campaigns to make up for decades of neglect and to protect HP's investments in Itanic and the I64 port. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Coming soon: Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 21:07:16 -0500 From: "John Smith" Subject: Re: Marketing changes at HP Message-ID: <_56dnQsB0IxFx4zfRVn-pg@igs.net> David J Dachtera wrote: > JF Mezei wrote: >> >> Allison Johnson has left HP to go (back) to Apple. >> >>> http://news.com.com/HP+exec+follows+Fiorina+out+the+door/2100-1010_3-5575413 .html?tag=nefd.top >> >> ## >> Allison Johnson, HP's senior vice president of marketing, was one of >> Fiorina's closest advisers at the company, having led the company's >> public-relations campaign during the contentious proxy battle over >> the acquisition of Compaq Computer as well as the "+HP = everything >> is possible" advertising campaign that followed the deal's closure. >> ## >> >> And now , for the good news: >> >> ## >> In an e-mail to staff Monday afternoon, Chief Marketing Officer Mike >> Winkler said that for the time being, the leadership of HP's >> corporate marketing team will report to him. He also reiterated that >> Johnson's move was planned prior to Fiorina's resignation. >> ## > > It's only good news when Winkler or someone else announces the number > of hundreds of millions HP is going to pour into VMS promotional > campaigns to make up for decades of neglect and to protect HP's > investments in Itanic and the I64 port. Winkler?!???! ROTFLMHO Howls of derisive laughter -- OpenVMS - The classics never go out of style. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 00:21:48 -0600 From: Mike Subject: Re: Marketing changes at HP Message-ID: Thank you, David. A wonderful shot in the arm, for an otherwise blue day. Mike Jenkins David J Dachtera wrote: >JF Mezei wrote: >> >> Allison Johnson has left HP to go (back) to Apple. >> >> > http://news.com.com/HP+exec+follows+Fiorina+out+the+door/2100-1010_3-5575413.html?tag=nefd.top >> >> ## >> Allison Johnson, HP's senior vice president of marketing, was one of >> Fiorina's closest advisers at the company, having led the company's >> public-relations campaign during the contentious proxy battle over the >> acquisition of Compaq Computer as well as the "+HP = everything is >> possible" advertising campaign that followed the deal's closure. >> ## >> >> And now , for the good news: >> >> ## >> In an e-mail to staff Monday afternoon, Chief Marketing Officer Mike >> Winkler said that for the time being, the leadership of HP's corporate >> marketing team will report to him. He also reiterated that Johnson's >> move was planned prior to Fiorina's resignation. >> ## > >It's only good news when Winkler or someone else announces the number of >hundreds of millions HP is going to pour into VMS promotional campaigns >to make up for decades of neglect and to protect HP's investments in >Itanic and the I64 port. http://www.geocities.com/mwjenkins001/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 14:33:03 -0500 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP Message-ID: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) wrote on 02/14/2005 01:15:50 PM: > VMS V7.2-1h1 Alpha > I mount various disks drives in the following command files: > > SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGICALS.COM > SYS$MANAGER:SYPAGSWPFILES.COM > SYS$MANAGER:SYSECURITY.COM > SYS$MANAGER:SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM > > (basic order of startup) > > In all cases, the disks being mounted are always online as they are being > served by HSG80 controllers - so there is not spin-up wait time. > > I started thinking why not mount all the disk drives in one command > file rather > than the multiple locations as is now. I was thinking that either one of the > following would be ideal for this purpose: > > SYS$MANAGER:SYCONFIG.COM > SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGICALS.COM > > I am aware that if I use SYS$MANAGER:SYCONFIG.COM > I would need to execute the following: > > $ MCR SYSMAN SYSMAN IO AUTOCONFIGURE > > The reason to use SYCONFIG is to keep the startup strategy in tact. > > By Startup Strategy I mean: > - in SYLOGICALS perform logical definitions > - in SYPAGESWPFILES perform page/swap file installs > - etc. > > I tend to believe that there should be a separate startup process for mounting > disks - since most everything you do at startup requires not only CPU and > Memory but Disk drives as well. Pretty much a rudimentary requirement to have > your disk drives mounted prior to completing startup. > > > Any thoughts on using either SYCONFIG or SYLOGICALS? Just be sure (as has been repeated elsewhere) that if you pick one executed with startup_p1 = "MIN " that you test for that and do the right thing - which is almost never to go ahead and mount all the disks. > > > Anyone doing something similar they would care to share with us? > > > TIA > > > John "REBOOT" Brandon > VMS Systems Administrator > firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 12:21:32 -0800 From: Ken Fairfield Subject: Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP Message-ID: John Brandon wrote: > VMS V7.2-1h1 Alpha > I mount various disks drives in the following command files: > > SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGICALS.COM > SYS$MANAGER:SYPAGSWPFILES.COM > SYS$MANAGER:SYSECURITY.COM > SYS$MANAGER:SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM [...snip comments about what goes on where and when...] Traditionally, I think most sites use SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM to mount "general" disks. SYPAGESWPFILES.COM has an obvious use and it probably is desirable to get your page/swap disks mounted before application startup. I've had only one case where I needed to mount a disk in SYLOGICALS rather than later on: in a mixed-architecture VMScluster where the cluster-common version of SYLOGICALS and SYSTARTUP_VMS were held on a particular shadowset. The storage was all CI-hosted (HSJs) and MSCP-served to satellite VAXstations. I had to add logical, even for the CI-attached nodes, to wait for this disk to EXIST and become available (AVL) before attempting to mount it. I presume that had something to do with timing as SYLOGICALS comes just after SYCONFIG, and the CONFIGURE process may still have been working on discovering devices (or something?). In other words, there are potential issues if you try to mount too early. Is there a reason you don't want to wait until SYSTARTUP_VMS? -Ken -- I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me... Ken Fairfield D1C Automation VMS System Support who: kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 21:04:26 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP Message-ID: In article <05021412155024@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>, brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) writes: > In all cases, the disks being mounted are always online as they are being > served by HSG80 controllers - so there is not spin-up wait time. I have just normal SCSI disks, and spin-up wait time is not really an issue. > I started thinking why not mount all the disk drives in one command file rather > than the multiple locations as is now. I was thinking that either one of the > following would be ideal for this purpose: > > SYS$MANAGER:SYCONFIG.COM > SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGICALS.COM > > I am aware that if I use SYS$MANAGER:SYCONFIG.COM > I would need to execute the following: > > $ MCR SYSMAN SYSMAN IO AUTOCONFIGURE > > The reason to use SYCONFIG is to keep the startup strategy in tact. Can you elabourate on this last sentence? > By Startup Strategy I mean: > - in SYLOGICALS perform logical definitions > - in SYPAGESWPFILES perform page/swap file installs > - etc. > > I tend to believe that there should be a separate startup process for mounting > disks - since most everything you do at startup requires not only CPU and > Memory but Disk drives as well. Pretty much a rudimentary requirement to have > your disk drives mounted prior to completing startup. I agree. > Any thoughts on using either SYCONFIG or SYLOGICALS? I have a procedure called MOUNT.COM which resides on a disk which is not a system disk for any node in the cluster (actually, it is the user disk). This also contains SYSUAF and other such files. The idea is that these should be common across the cluster, so there is no point in having them on a) just one system disk or b) maintained in multiple copies on several system disks. I mount all disks but 2 here (see below). In SYLOGICALS.COM, I have: $ SET NOON $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "" $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "" $ SHOW TIME $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "" $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "waiting to make sure all cluster members are available" $ WAIT 0:2:0 ! give all members a chance to show up $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "" $ SHOW TIME $MOUNT_USER_DISK: $ IF F$GETSYI("CLUSTER_MEMBER") $ THEN $ MOUNT/CLUSTER/NOASSIST/NOREBUILD - DSA510:/SHADOW=($22$DKA500:,$44$DKA400:) USER $ IF F$GETDVI("DISK$USER","MNT") $ THEN $ FILE := DISK$USER:[SYSTEM.MANAGER]CLUSTER_WIDE_DEFS.COM $ IF F$SEARCH(FILE) .NES. "" THEN @ 'FILE' $ ELSE $ WAIT 0:0:10 $GOTO MOUNT_USER_DISK $ ENDIF $ LICENSE LOAD $ ENDIF DISK$USER:[SYSTEM.MANAGER]CLUSTER_WIDE_DEFS.COM contains stuff like the definition of SYSUAF (see the comments in SYLOGICALS.TEMPLATE). In SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM, I have: $ FILE := CLUSTER_MANAGER:MOUNT.COM $ IF F$SEARCH(FILE) .NES. "" THEN @ 'FILE' Apart from DISK$USER which is mounted in SYLOGICALS.COM since it contains the definitions of logicals which should be defined in SYLOGICALS.COM, I mount all disks in MOUNT.COM except for swap/page disks, which I mount in SYPAGSWPFILES.COM. Obviously, MOUNT.COM can't mount the disk on which it itself resides, so it is mounted from SYLOGICALS.COM, which is needed anyway since it contains the definitions of the logicals. SYPAGSWPFILES.COM is executed earlier than SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM, so I mount page and swap files there. (I also (re)mount these disks on all nodes in MOUNT.COM.) Note that DISK$USER is only executed if the system is a cluster member. I have this in primarily so that if the machine is temporarily out of the cluster, it doesn't bother. SYSUAF etc then have their default definitions (and rudimentary files which provide what is needed when the machine is being run standalone). On the other hand, page and swap files should always be mounted, even in standalone mode, another reason to do this somewhere else. MOUNT.COM has commands like $ CALL MNT DSA520:/SHADOW=($22$DKA200:,$33$DKA300:) SOFT $MNT: SUBROUTINE $! $ DEV = P1 $ LABEL = P2 $ IF P3 .NES. "" THEN LOGNAM = P3 $! If this is a shadow set, mount it everywhere, unconditionally. $! This allows system-disk shadow sets to be mounted on all nodes $! at startup, which won't happen otherwise since they will show $! up as mounted by the time this procedure is called. Also, if $! one member goes away and comes back, this will allow that $! member to be added to the shadow set (although MOUNT/SYSTEM $! would be sufficient in such cases). Note that they can't be $! checked for existence, since the number is arbitrary, i.e. if $! the shadow set has not been mounted since boot, it will show $! up as non-existent. However, if the cluster is healthy enough $! that this procedure is called, then at least one member should $! be available. $ IF F$EXTRACT(0,3,DEV) .EQS. "DSA" $ THEN $ QUAL = "/CLUSTER" $ GOTO MOUNT_IT $ ELSE $! Can't mount a device if it doesn't exist (probably host isn't up yet) $ IF F$GETDVI(DEV,"EXISTS") $ THEN $! Check host_avail? $ IF F$GETDVI(DEV,"AVL") .AND. .NOT. F$GETDVI(DEV,"MNT") $ THEN $ IF F$GETDVI(DEV,"HOST_NAME") .EQS. F$GETSYI("NODENAME") $ THEN $ QUAL = "/CLUSTER" $ ELSE $ QUAL = "/SYSTEM" $ ENDIF $ GOTO MOUNT_IT $ ENDIF $ ENDIF $ ENDIF $ EXIT $MOUNT_IT: $! Note that the following will always be true for shadow sets. Thus, $! the following check still allows shadow sets to be mounted $! unconditionally. $! If we host the device then mount it clusterwide: $ ON SEVERE_ERROR THEN CONTINUE $ MOUNT/NOASSIST/NOREBUILD 'QUAL' 'DEV' 'LABEL' 'LOGNAM' $ EXIT $ENDSUBROUTINE SYPAGSWPFILES.COM contains stuff like: $ LOOP1: $ ON WARNING THEN GOTO LOOP1 $ WAIT 0000 00:00:00.50 $ READY1 = F$GETDVI("$33$DKA200:","AVL") $ READY2 = F$GETDVI("$33$DKA500:","AVL") $ IF READY1 .EQS. "FALSE" .AND. READY2 .EQS. "FALSE" THEN GOTO LOOP1 $ MOUNT/SYSTEM/NOASSIST DSA233:/SHADOW=($33$DKA200:,$33$DKA500:) SWAPPAGE_3 $! note that DISK$PAGE, DISK$SWAP are not yet defined $ RUN SYS$SYSTEM:SYSGEN INSTALL DISK$SWAPPAGE_3:[GLADIA]PAGEFILE2.SYS/PAGEFILE INSTALL DISK$SWAPPAGE_3:[GLADIA]SWAPFILE2.SYS/SWAPFILE EXIT $ EXIT ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 21:09:38 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP Message-ID: In article , Ken Fairfield writes: > Traditionally, I think most sites use SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM to > mount "general" disks. SYPAGESWPFILES.COM has an obvious use and > it probably is desirable to get your page/swap disks mounted > before application startup. Right. > I've had only one case where I needed to mount a disk in > SYLOGICALS rather than later on: in a mixed-architecture > VMScluster where the cluster-common version of SYLOGICALS and > SYSTARTUP_VMS were held on a particular shadowset. I don't suppose it's relevant that is is mixed-architecture (except that if it is mixed-architecture, one must have more than one system disk, but even in a non-mixed cluster one can, and probably should (unless one has one logical disk which is a multi-site shadow set, only possible with expensive hardware). > The storage > was all CI-hosted (HSJs) and MSCP-served to satellite VAXstations. > I had to add logical, even for the CI-attached nodes, to wait for > this disk to EXIST and become available (AVL) before attempting to > mount it. I presume that had something to do with timing as > SYLOGICALS comes just after SYCONFIG, and the CONFIGURE process > may still have been working on discovering devices (or something?). In my case, almost all logical disks are shadow sets with the members directly connected to different nodes (except for system and page/swap disks, where all members are on one node). An availability check is needed in case the nodes serving the shadow members (which might even be different than the node booting) might not be up yet (think of a cluster reboot where the nodes come up at different speeds). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 16:53:57 -0600 From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) Subject: Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP Message-ID: <05021416535725@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com> helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de wrote: > > The reason to use SYCONFIG is to keep the startup strategy in tact. > Can you elabourate on this last sentence? As I tried to explain in the first thread - each startup routine has its purpose. I guess I am expanding on the intent of SYCONFIG by making it a disk startup procedure - right or wrong - I just got it in my head that SYCONFIG is the right procedure to mount the disks. helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de wrote: > I have a procedure called MOUNT.COM which resides on a disk which is not > a system disk for any node in the cluster (actually, it is the user > disk). This also contains SYSUAF and other such files. The idea is > that these should be common across the cluster, so there is no point in > having them on a) just one system disk or b) maintained in multiple > copies on several system disks. I mount all disks but 2 here (see > below). I use a similiar concept - I called mine DISKS$MOUNT_STARTUP.COM. However I do not hard-code my devices. The procedure reads a text file (DISKS_DATABASE.DAT) that contains pertinent information for each device (device name, label, logical, and shadowset.) The procedure will perorm checks on the device prior to mount and reports back any problems prior and after the mount. I created a CLUSTER$DISK that contains all my common startup routines. The SYLOGICALS and SYSTARTUP_VMS reference this disk for the startup routines and executes them. So we have similiar concepts in startup routines. Just different names and variants on hard-coding (I hate it when I have to hard-code). Ken Fairfield [my.full.name@intel.com] wrote: > Is there a reason you don't want to wait until SYSTARTUP_VMS? I feel that one routine should be responsible for mounting all your disks. I view disks no differently than CPU or Memory. Therefore my disks should be mounted very early in the startup process. Mounting them in (say) SYCONFIG I avoid having to put the same mount mechanisms in SYLOGICALS, SYPAGSWPFILES, SYSECURITY, SYSTARTUP Why not just have them in ONE procedure? It is easier to manage. And if I happen to shuffle my startup disks around it will be transparent to the startup - as long as I do not change the volume label then I am in good shape. John "REBOOT" Brandon VMS Systems Administrator firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 19:57:29 -0500 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Mounting disks during STARTUP Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: John Brandon [mailto:brandon@dalsemi.com]=20 > Sent: February 14, 2005 5:54 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP >=20 [snip..] John, Only comment I would make wrt to the disk mounting is that if you use the "/norebuild" mount qualifier to speed up start-up times, then at some point in the start-up sequence, you might want to consider submitting a batch job to run later in the day to do a "set volume /rebuild" on each volume to reset the disk quota/cache info etc. Since the drives do not need to be taken offline, this can be done during the off /quiet hours. Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20 "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 19:57:28 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP Message-ID: <42115708.BE888AD2@comcast.net> John Brandon wrote: > > helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de wrote: > > > The reason to use SYCONFIG is to keep the startup strategy in tact. > > Can you elabourate on this last sentence? > > As I tried to explain in the first thread - each startup routine has its > purpose. I guess I am expanding on the intent of SYCONFIG by making it a disk > startup procedure - right or wrong - I just got it in my head that SYCONFIG is > the right procedure to mount the disks. I try to keep as much of the "user-land" stuff in SYSTARTUP_VMS and later. I like to do page/swap files in SYPAGSWPFILES, but some of my application vendors have a problem with this (they want to retain control of the environment). Also, during SYCONFIG, as you noted, that actual configuration phases are somewhat incomplete. I interpret SYCONFIG as good place for GK devices, MG devices and other stuff that I'd want to have even when I choose to skip SYSTARTUP_VMS, but still do a full VMS startup. > helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de wrote: > > I have a procedure called MOUNT.COM which resides on a disk which is not > > a system disk for any node in the cluster (actually, it is the user > > disk). This also contains SYSUAF and other such files. The idea is > > that these should be common across the cluster, so there is no point in > > having them on a) just one system disk or b) maintained in multiple > > copies on several system disks. I mount all disks but 2 here (see > > below). > > I use a similiar concept - I called mine DISKS$MOUNT_STARTUP.COM. However I do > not hard-code my devices. The procedure reads a text file (DISKS_DATABASE.DAT) > that contains pertinent information for each device (device name, label, > logical, and shadowset.) The procedure will perorm checks on the device prior > to mount and reports back any problems prior and after the mount. I tried to do something similar, but it never evolved into what I wanted. I posted here very long ago (about six years) about a facility I had dubbed "Shadow-Set Constituency Knowledge Base" (SSCKB, for short), but other posters immediately started asking questions that seemed inappropriate to something written in DCL to manipulate and use data about which volumes belong to which shadow-set, what the correct MSCP host (of FC path) should be, where appropriate, etc. I've kept to myself about it since. There's even a CHKDSK procedure to flag such things as missing shadow-sets and/or members, devices with the wrong MSCP host, shadow copies and/or merges in progress, etc. > I created a CLUSTER$DISK that contains all my common startup routines. > The SYLOGICALS and SYSTARTUP_VMS reference this disk for the startup routines > and executes them. Do you also isolate such files as the UAF, RIGHTSLIST, NET*PROXY, the queue database, and so on? > So we have similiar concepts in startup routines. Just different names and > variants on hard-coding (I hate it when I have to hard-code). Same here, but that's what I encounter the most out here in the field. Cut-and-paste, redundant code - difficult or impossible to maintain. > Ken Fairfield [my.full.name@intel.com] wrote: > > Is there a reason you don't want to wait until SYSTARTUP_VMS? > > I feel that one routine should be responsible for mounting all your disks. I > view disks no differently than CPU or Memory. Therefore my disks should be > mounted very early in the startup process. > > Mounting them in (say) SYCONFIG I avoid having to put the same mount mechanisms > in SYLOGICALS, SYPAGSWPFILES, SYSECURITY, SYSTARTUP > Why not just have them in ONE procedure? > > It is easier to manage. And if I happen to shuffle my startup disks around it > will be transparent to the startup - as long as I do not change the volume > label then I am in good shape. How 'bout those startup-time scenarios where you don't want the disks to mount? For example: last weekend, I did a system migration from the old datacenter to the new where I didn't want the second shadow-set members to MOUNT until the system had been up for validation and we had decided to forsake any back-outs. The shadow-copies took about 36 hours to finish up totally, and I expected as much; so, I didn't want to start something I'd have to abort later on if things didn't go right and we had to back out of the move. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Coming soon: Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 04:19:27 GMT From: "Carl Bennett" Subject: Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP Message-ID: I tend to agree with David... Unless I am doing a quorum disk, (which gets stuck in SYLOGICALS so that I can set up the roots for SYSUAF, QMAN$MASTER, etc... ), I like to mount disks under a separate com file near the end of SYSTARTUP. It just makes it easier if you ever have to get in and cut the startup off before it finishes... We also use a source file that gets opened and read for instructions on how to rebuild disks at startup... makes it really handy for all of the KZPAC's that we've been retiring lately to only have one file to update when the ultra-scsi comes in... SYCONFIG would be ok, if it was just one or two systems that I got to be in front of all the time, but I couldn't imagine trying to talk a night operator through editing that file when the pager goes off at 2 am... carlbennett<>users.com "David J Dachtera" wrote in message news:42115708.BE888AD2@comcast.net... > John Brandon wrote: >> >> helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de wrote: >> > > The reason to use SYCONFIG is to keep the startup strategy in tact. >> > Can you elabourate on this last sentence? >> >> As I tried to explain in the first thread - each startup routine has its >> purpose. I guess I am expanding on the intent of SYCONFIG by making it a >> disk >> startup procedure - right or wrong - I just got it in my head that >> SYCONFIG is >> the right procedure to mount the disks. > > I try to keep as much of the "user-land" stuff in SYSTARTUP_VMS and > later. I like to do page/swap files in SYPAGSWPFILES, but some of my > application vendors have a problem with this (they want to retain > control of the environment). > > Also, during SYCONFIG, as you noted, that actual configuration phases > are somewhat incomplete. > > I interpret SYCONFIG as good place for GK devices, MG devices and other > stuff that I'd want to have even when I choose to skip SYSTARTUP_VMS, > but still do a full VMS startup. > >> helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de wrote: >> > I have a procedure called MOUNT.COM which resides on a disk which is >> > not >> > a system disk for any node in the cluster (actually, it is the user >> > disk). This also contains SYSUAF and other such files. The idea is >> > that these should be common across the cluster, so there is no point in >> > having them on a) just one system disk or b) maintained in multiple >> > copies on several system disks. I mount all disks but 2 here (see >> > below). >> >> I use a similiar concept - I called mine DISKS$MOUNT_STARTUP.COM. >> However I do >> not hard-code my devices. The procedure reads a text file >> (DISKS_DATABASE.DAT) >> that contains pertinent information for each device (device name, label, >> logical, and shadowset.) The procedure will perorm checks on the device >> prior >> to mount and reports back any problems prior and after the mount. > > I tried to do something similar, but it never evolved into what I > wanted. I posted here very long ago (about six years) about a facility I > had dubbed "Shadow-Set Constituency Knowledge Base" (SSCKB, for short), > but other posters immediately started asking questions that seemed > inappropriate to something written in DCL to manipulate and use data > about which volumes belong to which shadow-set, what the correct MSCP > host (of FC path) should be, where appropriate, etc. I've kept to myself > about it since. There's even a CHKDSK procedure to flag such things as > missing shadow-sets and/or members, devices with the wrong MSCP host, > shadow copies and/or merges in progress, etc. > >> I created a CLUSTER$DISK that contains all my common startup routines. >> The SYLOGICALS and SYSTARTUP_VMS reference this disk for the startup >> routines >> and executes them. > > Do you also isolate such files as the UAF, RIGHTSLIST, NET*PROXY, the > queue database, and so on? > >> So we have similiar concepts in startup routines. Just different names >> and >> variants on hard-coding (I hate it when I have to hard-code). > > Same here, but that's what I encounter the most out here in the field. > Cut-and-paste, redundant code - difficult or impossible to maintain. > >> Ken Fairfield [my.full.name@intel.com] wrote: >> > Is there a reason you don't want to wait until SYSTARTUP_VMS? >> >> I feel that one routine should be responsible for mounting all your >> disks. I >> view disks no differently than CPU or Memory. Therefore my disks should >> be >> mounted very early in the startup process. >> >> Mounting them in (say) SYCONFIG I avoid having to put the same mount >> mechanisms >> in SYLOGICALS, SYPAGSWPFILES, SYSECURITY, SYSTARTUP >> Why not just have them in ONE procedure? >> >> It is easier to manage. And if I happen to shuffle my startup disks >> around it >> will be transparent to the startup - as long as I do not change the >> volume >> label then I am in good shape. > > How 'bout those startup-time scenarios where you don't want the disks to > mount? For example: last weekend, I did a system migration from the old > datacenter to the new where I didn't want the second shadow-set members > to MOUNT until the system had been up for validation and we had decided > to forsake any back-outs. The shadow-copies took about 36 hours to > finish up totally, and I expected as much; so, I didn't want to start > something I'd have to abort later on if things didn't go right and we > had to back out of the move. > > -- > David J Dachtera > dba DJE Systems > http://www.djesys.com/ > > Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: > http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ > > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ > > Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: > http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ > > Coming soon: > Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 20:40:52 -0800 From: Z Subject: Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP Message-ID: Carl Bennett wrote: > I tend to agree with David... > > Unless I am doing a quorum disk, (which gets stuck in SYLOGICALS so that I > can set up the roots for SYSUAF, QMAN$MASTER, etc... ), I like to mount > disks under a separate com file near the end of SYSTARTUP. It just makes it > easier if you ever have to get in and cut the startup off before it > finishes... ... or a shadowed system disk. I put that $MOUNT in SYLOGICALS. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 23:53:29 -0500 From: "John E. Malmberg" Subject: Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP Message-ID: John Brandon wrote: > > I started thinking why not mount all the disk drives in one command file rather > than the multiple locations as is now. I was thinking that either one of the > following would be ideal for this purpose: > > SYS$MANAGER:SYCONFIG.COM > SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGICALS.COM Putting disk mount commands in SYCONFIG.COM is one of the best ways to break AUTOGEN.COM. Do not modify SYCONFIG.COM unless you understand exactly what the consequences of modifying that file. When you run AUTOGEN, it executes SYCONFIG.COM. -John wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only ------------------------------ Date: 14 Feb 2005 20:56:43 -0800 From: "AEF" Subject: Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP Message-ID: <1108443403.181776.315620@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> John Brandon wrote: > VMS V7.2-1h1 Alpha > I mount various disks drives in the following command files: > > SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGICALS.COM > SYS$MANAGER:SYPAGSWPFILES.COM > SYS$MANAGER:SYSECURITY.COM > SYS$MANAGER:SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM > > (basic order of startup) > > In all cases, the disks being mounted are always online as they are being > served by HSG80 controllers - so there is not spin-up wait time. > > I started thinking why not mount all the disk drives in one command file rather > than the multiple locations as is now. I was thinking that either one of the > following would be ideal for this purpose: > > SYS$MANAGER:SYCONFIG.COM > SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGICALS.COM > > I am aware that if I use SYS$MANAGER:SYCONFIG.COM > I would need to execute the following: > > $ MCR SYSMAN SYSMAN IO AUTOCONFIGURE > > The reason to use SYCONFIG is to keep the startup strategy in tact. > > By Startup Strategy I mean: > - in SYLOGICALS perform logical definitions > - in SYPAGESWPFILES perform page/swap file installs > - etc. > > I tend to believe that there should be a separate startup process for mounting > disks - since most everything you do at startup requires not only CPU and > Memory but Disk drives as well. Pretty much a rudimentary requirement to have > your disk drives mounted prior to completing startup. > > > Any thoughts on using either SYCONFIG or SYLOGICALS? Yes. That's not the purpose of syconfig.com. Its purpose is to connect and configure non-standard devices. Standard devices are connected and configured by startup.com. Note that syconfig.com gets run by autogen. Note that a minumum startup runs sylogicals.com and sypagswpfiles.com, IIRC. The manual suggests mounting public disks in systartup_vms.com. I'd say put your mount procedure at its beginning. >From the manual re syconfig.com: Modifying SYCONFIG.COM to Configure Devices You can add commands to SYCONFIG.COM to perform site-specific device configuration, including connecting nonstandard devices and suppressing autoconfiguration. Connecting Nonstandard Devices Standard devices are automatically connected and configured by STARTUP.COM each time the system boots. Nonstandard devices (devices not supplied by HP) are not automatically connected and configured; you must connect and configure these devices manually by entering certain commands. To execute these commands each time the system starts up, add the commands to SYCONFIG.COM. On VAX systems, add SYSGEN CONNECT commands. For more information about connecting devices, see Connecting Devices and Loading Device Drivers. For more information about the SYSGEN CONNECT command, refer to the SYSGEN section of the HP OpenVMS System Management Utilities Reference Manual. On Alpha systems, add SYSMAN IO CONNECT commands. For more information about connecting devices, see Connecting Devices and Loading Device Drivers. For more information about the SYSMAN IO CONNECT command, refer to the SYSMAN section of the HP OpenVMS System Management Utilities Reference Manual . Example To connect a nonstandard device called the QQ device, add the following commands to SYCONFIG.COM: $ SYSGEN := $SYSGEN $ SYSGEN CONNECT QQA0 Suppressing Autoconfiguration of Devices You might want to suppress autoconfiguration for various reasons, including the following ones: To customize the order in which you configure devices To troubleshoot booting problems To allow Small Computer System Interface (SCSI) based workstations to use devices on another workstation's SCSI bus without causing conflicts during boot time You can define a symbol in SYCONFIG.COM to suppress autoconfiguration. For more information, see Suppressing the Autoconfiguration of Devices. [...] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 00:52:00 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP Message-ID: <1108445989.c2343e8483afdfedcdde83074946d54a@teranews> I've always put my mount commands early in systartup_vms.com, followed by the pagefile installations. This way, I am assured that startup_p1 = "MIN" really means it since none of my stuff gets executed and thus I can't mess things in a minimum startup. I much prefer to keep all site specific invocations in one file. I prefer a one-to-may approach as opposed to many-to-may when it comes to command procedures that call others during startup (in terms of site specific stuff). I tend to restrict use of sylogicals.com only to logicals absolutely needed by processes such as opcom started prior to systartup_vms.com, and others are just redefined in systartup.com. The fewer files that are modified for system customisations, the better. ------------------------------ Date: 14 Feb 2005 11:38:18 -0800 From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution Message-ID: <1108409898.537479.94860@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Jeff Goodwin wrote: > My OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution arrived today. > > You'll all be happy to know that the box has a Java Compatible logo on it. > :) > > -Jeff Great! Now I wonder how long before they show up on Ebay so us hobbyist types can get a copy... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 20:41:09 GMT From: "John Vottero" Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution Message-ID: "John Reagan" wrote in message news:zv6Qd.11$O46.0@news.cpqcorp.net... > Jeff Goodwin wrote: >> My OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution arrived today. >> >> You'll all be happy to know that the box has a Java Compatible logo on >> it. >> :) >> >> -Jeff >> >> > > Great, I've been needing a box that is Java Compatible, my old one is > wearing out. :-) It may say it's Java Compatible but, it started leaking as soon as I poured the Java in. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 16:00:04 -0600 From: "Schroeder, AJ" Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution Message-ID: <42111f66@news.qgraph.com> wrote in message news:1108409898.537479.94860@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > > Jeff Goodwin wrote: > > My OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution arrived today. > > > > You'll all be happy to know that the box has a Java Compatible logo > on it. > > :) > > > > -Jeff > > Great! Now I wonder how long before they show up on Ebay so us > hobbyist types can get a copy... > Yes, where do us hobbyist types get copies of the newest VMS releases? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 01:44:55 GMT From: John Santos Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution Message-ID: Schroeder, AJ wrote: > wrote in message > news:1108409898.537479.94860@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > >>Jeff Goodwin wrote: >> >>>My OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution arrived today. >>> >>>You'll all be happy to know that the box has a Java Compatible logo >> >>on it. >> >>>:) >>> >>>-Jeff >> >>Great! Now I wonder how long before they show up on Ebay so us >>hobbyist types can get a copy... >> > > > Yes, where do us hobbyist types get copies of the newest VMS releases? I'm getting mine by borrowing it from work :-) It's perfectly all right to beg or borrow a copy. Stealing is frowned upon. Conventional wisdom is that putting a copy of it up on the Internet so people can download it is also right out. I don't know if there has been an actual post from someone at HP or if it is "obvious" (in the legalese sense of "obvious") from the hobbyist license agreement that this is illegal, but I wouldn't chance it. If it were okay, I think HP would put it up on their own web site if it were okay, so people downloading it would have some assurance they were getting the real thing and not a hacked trojan horse version or an obsolete beta. In the past, we have recieved two copies of most Alpha VMS kits, one with our support contract and one as DSPP members. Often when we renew the DSPP membership (annually) we get yet another copy of the latest O/S kit. I bet this is where many of the Ebay kits come from. Most sites really only need one copy. (I do like to keep two, though. It really stinks to discover you've got a scratched CD at 2AM on a Sunday morning in the middle of an upgrade.) -- John Santos Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 21:14:54 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution Message-ID: <1108432977.074d249f0b8c462666c1095c0f1eab7b@teranews> John Santos wrote: > Conventional wisdom is that putting a copy of it up on the Internet so > people can download it is also right out. I've offered to my country's, organisation-formely-known-as-Decus to offer to host the kits on a per-request basis. (eg: kits would not be freely downloadable, only given to those who request it through the organisation formaly known as DECUS.) I've received no formal response. Not sure if it would be worth going direct to VMS management and dealing with Montagar (they have the big database of hobbyists users) to supply kits on the net to hobbysists on a per-demand basis. ------------------------------ Date: 14 Feb 2005 20:28:07 -0800 From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution Message-ID: <1108441686.965143.224860@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> John Santos wrote: > > I'm getting mine by borrowing it from work :-) > Unfortunately I haven't worked for an employer with OpenVMS since 2002 so that avenue is out. I paid somewhere around $250 on Ebay for the Alpha 7.3-2 OS and the Q4CY2003 SPL and $30 for the Alpha 7.3-1 CD from www.openvmshobbyist.org . I'd gladly pay $50 or so for a couple of CD's from them with everything (except the bazillion DECwindows versions) that the Hobbyist License covers plus documentation. > It's perfectly all right to beg or borrow a copy. Stealing is frowned upon. > > Conventional wisdom is that putting a copy of it up on the Internet so > people can download it is also right out. I've also got the means to furnish downloads on the web if some sort of way could be found to verify that a hobbyist was dowloading. But I can see the legal implications on that could be prohibitive. > I don't know if there has been an actual post from someone at HP or if > it is "obvious" (in the legalese sense of "obvious") from the hobbyist > license agreement that this is illegal, but I wouldn't chance it. If > it were okay, I think HP would put it up on their own web site if it > were okay, so people downloading it would have some assurance they were > getting the real thing and not a hacked trojan horse version or an > obsolete beta. I think it's more the economics of charging $1K for 40 odd CD's a year as opposed to whatever the cost of keeping up a download area. I note that from the cover letter, etc on my SPL that you CAN download portions of the SPL if you have a password that is furnished with the SPL - however that password expires quarterly so usually by the time things make it to Ebay the password is long past usable. John H. Reinhardt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 19:38:27 -0600 From: "Craig A. Berry" Subject: Re: regular expression support on OpenVMS (was Re: grep on openVMS?) Message-ID: In article <37c554F5bvirtU1@individual.net>, "Peter Weaver" wrote: > Craig A. Berry wrote: > >... > > /WILDCARD=TRADITIONAL (D) > > /WILDCARD=REGEX > > > > Or, if you prefer, PATTERN instead of WILDCARD. As far as I can see, > > there is currently in SEARCH no capability for matching file contents > > against patterns of any kind, even traditional VMS wildcards. > >... > > V8.2 has added /WILDCARD_MATCHING to SEARCH. Allowing us to use the * > and the % in the search string. Nifty. I was not aware of this. Still looks like a good place to drop in regular expressions as an alternative to traditional wildcards. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 03:29:29 GMT From: "Anthony Borla" Subject: Re: regular expression support on OpenVMS (was Re: grep on openVMS?) Message-ID: "Peter Weaver" wrote in message news:37c554F5bvirtU1@individual.net... > Craig A. Berry wrote: > >... > > /WILDCARD=TRADITIONAL (D) > > /WILDCARD=REGEX > > > > Or, if you prefer, PATTERN instead of WILDCARD. As > > far as I can see, there is currently in SEARCH no capability > > for matching file contents against patterns of any kind, even > > traditional VMS wildcards. > >... > > V8.2 has added /WILDCARD_MATCHING to SEARCH. > Allowing us to use the * and the % in the search string. > Definitely a move in the right direction, and good to see progress being made :) ! Cheers, Anthony Borla ------------------------------ Date: 14 Feb 2005 12:52:10 -0800 From: "denny" Subject: Re: SLS dead Message-ID: <1108414330.648378.57270@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> I have been told several times by HP support people that ABS "Archive Backup System for OpenVMS" is the product to migrate to. They make no excuses for SLS, and have told me several times that bugs i found will not be fixed. They say the SLS license will work for ABS. They say that conversion is "painless" (like waking up in a tub of icewater to discover you kidneys are gone!). We are on V2.9H. As soon as I get some free time, I'm going to copy our volume database and see what happens when I convert it. So my questions are, have you looked at ABS? Is ABS going to be maintained? And if SLS is really dead, why don't they let us hobbyists have a license for it? regards, denny ------------------------------ Date: 15 Feb 2005 02:16:35 GMT From: YANOF@WANADOO.FR Subject: SONO A PRIX DISCOUNT Message-ID: <42115b83$1$6593$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
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------------------------------ Date: 14 Feb 2005 17:01:57 -0600 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: V6.1 OpenVMS Guide to System Security hardcopy order number Message-ID: Hardcopy document order numbers: AA-PV5SA-TE V1.5 OpenVMS AXP Guide to System Security AA-PV5RA-TE V6.0 OpenVMS VAX Guide to System Security ??????????? V6.1 OpenVMS Guide to System Security AA-QE0WA-TE V6.2 OpenVMS Guide to System Security Can anyone fill in the missing order number ? I have the Bookreader version which does not say. ------------------------------ Date: 14 Feb 2005 15:14:31 -0800 From: jordan@ccs4vms.com Subject: Re: V6.1 OpenVMS Guide to System Security hardcopy order number Message-ID: <1108422871.789382.19520@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> AA-Q2HLA-TE OpenVMS Guide to System Security OpenVMS V6.1 (VAX and AXP) March 1994 I also have a different number for V6.2; this is straight from my hardcopy. AA-Q2HLB-TE OpenVMS Guide to System Security OpenVMS V6.2 (VAX and Alpha) May 1995 ------------------------------ Date: 14 Feb 2005 17:47:17 -0600 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: V6.1 OpenVMS Guide to System Security hardcopy order number Message-ID: In article <1108422871.789382.19520@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, jordan@ccs4vms.com writes: > AA-Q2HLA-TE > OpenVMS Guide to System Security > OpenVMS V6.1 (VAX and AXP) > March 1994 Thanks. > I also have a different number for V6.2; this is straight from my > hardcopy. > > AA-Q2HLB-TE > OpenVMS Guide to System Security > OpenVMS V6.2 (VAX and Alpha) > May 1995 That actually looks better than the one I have, being in order with successors. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2005.091 ************************