INFO-VAX Mon, 14 Feb 2005 Volume 2005 : Issue 90 Contents: =?iso-8859-1?q?Make_Money_quickly_&_easily!!!!!!!!!!!!=A3?= Cluster assembler Re: Coverting filenames from unix style to VMS style in DCL Re: Coverting filenames from unix style to VMS style in DCL Re: Coverting filenames from unix style to VMS style in DCL Re: Curly soon to be out of a job Re: DCL call to get shadow member status? Re: DCL call to get shadow member status? Re: DCL call to get shadow member status? Re: DCL call to get shadow member status? Fixing Carly's Mess Re: grep on openVMS? Re: grep on openVMS? Re: grep on openVMS? Re: grep on openVMS? Re: grep on openVMS? Re: grep on openVMS? Re: grep on openVMS? Re: grep on openVMS? Re: grep on openVMS? Re: grep on openVMS? Re: grep on openVMS? Re: grep on openVMS? Happy Valentines to Sue ! Re: Happy Valentines to Sue ! Re: Is $3 million really so much to spend.... Re: Is $3 million really so much to spend.... Re: More HP should...... Mounting disks during STARTUP OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution Re: regular expression support on OpenVMS (was Re: grep on openVMS?) Re: SLS dead ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 14 Feb 2005 02:36:15 -0800 From: ADZ222@msn.com Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Make_Money_quickly_&_easily!!!!!!!!!!!!=A3?= Message-ID: <1108377375.249086.178370@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> EARN extra =A3=A3=A3=A3=A3=A3=A3 it's very simple and LEGAL too! Working Fr= om Home & Earn Cash Date: 14.10.2004 Please read on - this is 100% simple and very effective.....you will not regret this! All you need is honesty and you WILL make money! MAKE =A35,000 WITH JUST =A33 AND 6 STAMPS!! YES....IT REALLY WORKS. MAKE QUICK AND EASY MONEY - THIS ACTUALLY WORKS! I READ THIS ARTICLE ON A MESSAGE BOARD AND THOUGHT I MIGHT ASWELL GIVE IT A GO.THIS IS THE GREATEST & SIMPLEST WAY TO MAKE MONEY - WITH A TINY BIT OF EFFORT & NO HASSLE! THE ORIGINAL ARTICLE IS BELOW. P.s. you dont even have to give your full name: your initials or a fake one will do, just as long as the postman will diliver it! Make =A3500 - =A35,000 or more, with just =A33 and 6 stamps. Earn money honest and fairly. HOW TO TURN =A33 INTO =A35,000!!! OR MORE!!! IT REALLY WORKS. I found this on a bulletin board and decided to try it. A little while back, I was browsing message boards, just like you are now, and came across an article similar to this that said you could make thousands of pounds within weeks with only an initial investment of =A33.00. So I thought, "Yeah right, this must be a scam", but like most of us, I was curious, so I kept reading. Anyway, it said that you have to send 50p to each of the 6 names and addresses stated in the article. You then place your own name and address in the bottom of the list at No6, and post the article in as many newsgroups and message boards as you can. (There are thousands) No catch,that was it. So after thinking it over, and talking to few people first, I thought about trying it. I figured "what have I got to lose except 6 stamps and 3 quid right?" Then I invested the measly =A33, Well guess what? Within 7 days, I started getting money in the post! I was shocked! I figured it would end soon; but the money just kept coming in. In my first week, I made about =A330. By the end of the second week I had made a total of over =A3900. In the third week I had over =A33,000 and was still growing. This is now my fourth week and I have made a total of just over =A315,000 and it's still coming in rapidly. It's certainly worth =A33 and 6 stamps! Let me tell you how this works and most importantly, why it works. It's really simple and easy. I promise you that if you follow the directions exactly, that you will start making more money than you thought possible by doing something so easy! Suggestion: Read this entire message carefully. (Print it out or copy and paste it into notepad or a blank email or similar) Follow the simple directions and watch the money come rolling in! IMPORTANT: This is not a rip-off; it is not indecent; it is not illegal; and it is no risk (well - a massive =A33.00) - AND it really works. If all of the following instructions are adhered to, you will receive extraordinary dividends. PLEASE NOTE: Please follow these directions exactly, and =A3500 - =A35,000 or more can be yours in 20 to 60 days. This program remains successful because of the honesty and integrity of the participants. Please continue its success by carefully adhering to the instructions. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------------------------------------------------------------- *Here Are The 4 Easy Steps To Success - TRY IT......GO ON, WHAT HAVE YOU GOT TO LOSE EXCEPT =A33. STEP 1: Get 6 separate pieces of paper and write the following on each piece of paper: "PLEASE PUT ME ON YOUR MAILING LIST" and then write your name and address below that. Now get 6 UK 50p coins and tape ONE to EACH of the 6 pieces of paper and fold the piece of paper in half so the coin will not break through the envelope. Next, place one of the pieces of paper in each of the 6 envelopes and seal them. (make sure you put a stamp on each envelope - a 2nd class stamp will be fine if you want to keep your costs even lower) You should now have 6 sealed envelopes, each with a piece of paper inside saying "PLEASE PUT ME ON YOUR MAILING LIST", your name and address, and a 50p coin. What you are doing is creating a service. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY LEGAL! You are requesting a legitimate service and you are paying for it. (very little!) Like most of us I was a little skeptical and a little worried about the legal aspects of it all. So I checked it out with the UK Post Office and they confirmed that it is indeed legal. If you have any worries, refer to Title18 Sec. 1302 & 1341 of the Postal lottery laws. It is fantastically - completely legal! Now send your 6 envelopes to the addresses below: No1) E. Chapman, 2 Rocklands Road, Shropham, Norfolk, NR17 1DU , No2) Helen McCrorey, 85 Michaelmas Road, Styvechale, Coventry, CV3 6HF, No3)T. Low, 97 Farmleigh Avenue, Clacton-on-sea, Essex, CO15 4UL , No4) D.Breckon, 6 Station Crescent, Billingham, Cleveland, TS23 1LY , No5) A.Friction, 112 Farren Road, Northfield, Birmingham No6) A.C.S. , 52 Gorton Road, Willerby, East Riding, HU10 6LT *IMPORTANT: You MUST do this step or these people will not be able to add your name to their mailing lists as spaces become available on them and you will lose out on a lot of money - and we dont want that! Also, when you do Step No3, when people start sending money in, the above 6 will KNOW that you didn't adhere to the rules as they never got their 50p from you and will take you off the list! These are the RULES. : *PLEASE REMEMBER that this program remains successful because of the honesty and integrity of the participants and by their carefully adhering to the directions. Look at it this way - If you follow the rules completely, the program will continue and therefore so will your money! * STEP 2: Now take the number 1 name off the list that you see above and move the others up 1. (6 becomes 5, 5 becomes 4, etc.) And add YOUR name and address at number 6 on the list. STEP 3: Change anything you need to, but try to keep this article as close to the original as possible. Now, post your amended article to as many newsgroups and message boards as you can (You should really try to aim for at least 200 which isn't as difficult as it sounds with the 'copy and paste' feature - more on this below) I think there are close to 34,000 groups. And remember, the more you post, the more money you make! ** Keep a copy of these steps for yourself and, whenever you need money, you can use it again, and again. So, as each post is sent and the directions followed carefully, six members will be reimbursed for their participation as a List Developer with 50p : pence each. Your name will move up the list geometrically so that when your name reaches the No1 position you will be receiving thousands of Pounds in CASH!!! What an opportunity for only =A33. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------------------------------------------------------------- *DIRECTIONS FOR HOW TO POST TO NEWSGROUPS* : STEP 1) You do not need to re-type this entire letter to do your own posting. Simply put your cursor at the top of this document and highlight all of it. Select 'copy' from the edit menu. This will copy the entire letter into the computer's memory. STEP 2) Open a blank 'notepad' file or a blank email and place your cursor at the top of the blank page. From the 'edit' menu select 'paste'. This will paste a copy of the letter into notepad or a blank email so that : you can add your name to the list. STEP 3) Save your new notepad file as a .txt. file or save your email with the document now on it. STEP 4) Search for various news groups (on-line forums, message boards, discussions groups) using a search engine or however you like. STEP 5) Visit these message boards etc and post this article as a new message by highlighting the text of this letter you will have saved, and selecting 'copy' and then 'paste' from the edit menu. (paste this document on the message board) : Fill in the Subject line, this will be the header that everyone sees as they scroll through the list of postings in a particular group. Make it something intriguing that will make people want to read your message. : Click the post message button. You're done with your first one! Congratulations...THAT'S IT! All you have to do is jump to different newsgroups and post away, after you get the hang of it, it will take only take you a few seconds for each newsgroup! You will begin receiving money within days!. * PLEASE READ: Now the WHY part: Out of 200 postings, say you receive only 10 replies (a very low example of 5%). So then you make =A35 with your name at No6 on the letter. Now, each of the 10 persons who just sent you 50p make the MINIMUM 200 postings, each with your name at No6 and only 10 persons respond to each of the original 10, that is another =A350 for you. Now those 100 each make a MINIMUM 200 with your name at No4 and only receive 10 replies each, you will make an additional =A3500!! OK, now here is the fun part, each of those 1000 persons post a MINIMUM 200 letters with your name at No3 and they each only receive 10 replies, that just made you =A35,000!!!! Those 10,000 persons will all deliver this message to 200 newsgroups with your name at No2 and if still only 10 people per 200 newsgroups react, you will receive =A350,000! With an original investment of only =A33 that's AMAZING!!! Do you realise that thousands of people all over the world are joining the Internet every day? And reading these articles JUST LIKE YOU ARE NOW!! There are tons of honest users looking at newsgroups and message boards everyday that will be willing to give it a try. Estimates are at 20,000 to 50,000 new users joining the Internet every day. So can you afford =A33 and see if it really works? I think so... **Remember** Play FAIRLY and HONESTLY and this will really work. DONT play honestly and fairly and it WONT. Good luck in your new business!!! How to turn =A33 into =A35,000! Or more! Do it!! ------------------------------ Date: 14 Feb 2005 09:09:26 -0800 From: "ugex" Subject: Cluster assembler Message-ID: <1108400966.392100.95760@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Hi Im assembly a cluster scsi with 2 alphas 1000 under ovms 7.3-1 I put all my licences for cluster in node one and two and execute in nodo1 @cluster_config I choose add decnet node name :nodo2 decnet addres :2.3 will nodo2 be a boot server? Y alloclass:1 quorumdisk:$1$dka200 .. .. after answered the questions i saw before booting nodo2 you must create a new default bootstrap command procedure for nodo2 Some one knows if I need execute @cluster_config in nodo2 also..? How can I boot my node2..? >>> boot -fl 0 ? What is the best steps for assembly my cluster..? Thanks for all your help ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:22:28 GMT From: "Jerry Alan Braga" Subject: Re: Coverting filenames from unix style to VMS style in DCL Message-ID: I tweaked a version that came with VMS for my purposes. It uses 2 parameters Param1: Unix style filename Param2: Name of a DCL symbol that the code will place the VMS style into $ unix_to_vms = "[]unix_to_vms.exe" $ unix_to_vms "device/dir/subdir/file.ext" "vms_file" $ write sys$output vms_file $! $! here are the build/run instructions $! $ write sys$output "Compiling ''file' ..." $ cc/object=unix_to_vms.obj unix_to_vmx.c $! $ write sys$output "Linking ''file' ..." $ link/exe=unix_to_vms.exe unix_to_vms.obj $! /************************************************************************ * * * Copyright Digital Equipment Corporation 1998. All rights reserved. * * * * Restricted Rights: Use, duplication, or disclosure by the U.S. * * Government is subject to restrictions as set forth in subparagraph * * (c) (1) (ii) of DFARS 252.227-7013, or in FAR 52.227-19, or in FAR * * 52.227-14 Alt. III, as applicable. * * * * This software is proprietary to and embodies the confidential * * technology of Digital Equipment Corporation. Possession, use, or * * copying of this software and media is authorized only pursuant to a * * valid written license from Digital or an authorized sublicensor. * * * ************************************************************************/ /* copied from decc$to_vms_example.c */ /* Translate "Unix" wildcard file names to VMS names */ /* Define as a foreign command and provide the name */ /* as an argument. */ #include #include #include #include #include #include int action(char *, int); char g_file[] = ""; int main(int argc, char *argv[]) { int sts; if (strlen(argv[1]) == 0) { printf("parameter 1: File to translate required"); return (4); } if (strlen(argv[2]) == 0) { printf("parameter 2: Symbol name to define required"); return (4); } sts = decc$to_vms(argv[1], action, 1, 0); char vmsfile[strlen(g_file)+1]; strcpy(vmsfile, g_file); char mysymbol[strlen(argv[2])+1]; strcpy(mysymbol, argv[2]); $DESCRIPTOR(mysymbol_desc, mysymbol); $DESCRIPTOR(symvalue_desc, vmsfile); sts = lib$set_symbol(&mysymbol_desc,&symvalue_desc); return (0); } int action (char *name, int type) { /* if (type == DECC$K_DIRECTORY) printf("directory: %s\n", name); else if (type == DECC$K_FOREIGN) printf("remote non-VMS: %s\n", name); else printf("file: %s\n", name); */ strcpy(g_file, name); /* Translation continues as long as success status is returned */ return (1); } ------------------------------ Date: 14 Feb 2005 12:01:12 -0600 From: kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) Subject: Re: Coverting filenames from unix style to VMS style in DCL Message-ID: In article <00A3F55A.46031AF6@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > In article , kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) writes: >>I have a java program that calls a DCL command proc to work on >>a file. The java program passes the filename in unix style format, >>/disk/dir1/dir2/dir3/file.ext to which DCL says, "Huh?". Is there >>an easy way from DCL to convert a unix name to a VMS name? Perhaps >>an undocumented parameter to parse_style in F$PARSE called DEUNIXIFY? > > Write a simple but if code (C might be easiest) which employs the > DECC RTL decc$to_vms(). You can take the unix filespec as input > and output the VMS name to a DCL symbol with LIB$SET_SYMBOL or to > a logical name. Thanks, VAXman, I already have a solution like that working. What I was hoping for was to make it system agnostic, so that I didn't need to have any additional bits and pieces. I'm trying to get an open source java tool to play nice with a generic VMS system so I can release it to the community with as few dependencies as possible. I'm just making sure I am not missing something obvious. (I'm still amazed that I run into commands, or utilities, that I didn't know existed on VMS even after all these years.) ------------------------------ Date: 14 Feb 2005 12:09:47 -0600 From: kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) Subject: Re: Coverting filenames from unix style to VMS style in DCL Message-ID: In article , "Craig A. Berry" writes: > In article , > kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) wrote: > >> I have a java program that calls a DCL command proc to work on >> a file. The java program passes the filename in unix style format, >> /disk/dir1/dir2/dir3/file.ext to which DCL says, "Huh?". Is there >> an easy way from DCL to convert a unix name to a VMS name? Perhaps >> an undocumented parameter to parse_style in F$PARSE called DEUNIXIFY? > > One way to do it is with Perl. If you just want to take a unix syntax > name as input and print the VMS syntax name, this will do it: > > $ perl -e "print VMS::Filespec::vmsify($ARGV[0]);" > "/disk/dir1/dir2/dir3/file.ext" > disk:[dir1.dir2.dir3]file.ext > > If you want to modify the contents of a DCL symbol called "filespec", > replacing its unix syntax with VMS syntax, do this: > > $ filespec = "/disk/dir1/dir2/dir3/file.ext" > $ perl -"MVMS::DCLsym" -e "tie %dcl, VMS::DCLsym; > $dcl{filespec}=VMS::Filespec::vmsify($dcl{filespec});" > $ show symbol filespec > FILESPEC = "disk:[dir1.dir2.dir3]file.ext" > > These examples are written so as to fit on one line; there are more > readable and efficient ways to do the same thing in Perl if you are > willing to write a small utility script and keep it around for this > purpose. Since Perl's conversion capabilities predate ODS-5 by quite a > few years, they may not handle things like multiple dots properly, but > are otherwise pretty reliable. I keep seeing more and more examples of how to do things with Perl. One of these days I'm going to have to remove the plastic wrap from my O'Reilly Perl book and skim it. ;^) (I can hear the collective gasp of the computer literati now, "Gasp! RTFM? Turn in your guru badge immediately!") > You could also have a look at how to do it in C: > > SYS$COMMON:[SYSHLP.EXAMPLES.CRTL]DECC$TO_VMS_EXAMPLE.C > > Adding calls to lib$get_symbol and lib$set_symbol in there would be a > way to have a small standalone program that reproduces the > functionality of my second Perl example. You could also build on the C > example to write a JNI plug-in and convert the filespec from within > Java before passing it to DCL. The C program I already have working. I hadn't considered JNI, but it might be worth a look as I could bundle it back into the open source java package I'm doing this for as a VMS specific addition. > Obviously none of these methods is as convenient for your purposes as > having a DCL lexical, but I have never heard of one that does this. > Sounds like another thing for Guy's to-do list. That is sort of why I tossed it out there. If I was missing something obvious, someone would pipe up. If not, perhaps the DCL dude(s) would see the merit and put it in the "to do" list. Thanks, Craig. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 04:12:47 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Curly soon to be out of a job Message-ID: <1108371627.d9a4c0f8110b62bc897c6c3cce94fcb5@teranews> As an update to the original story. BBC now reports that it is Verizon which will get MCI. (Initial rumours were that Qwest would buy MCI). I wonder if, should this deal progress, Curly would be allowed to leave to go to HP now, or would HP have to wait a good 8-12 months before Curly would be relieved of his responsabilities during the takeover process ? Could HP really wait this long before getting a real CEO ? (not that Curly woudl be considered a "real" CEO, he is just good at finding buyers for the companies he runs into the ground). If Verizon were to allow Curly go to now, that would say a lot about his true value. And HP would look really desperate to hire a reject from another company, just like Worldcom/MCI was desperate to find anyone willing to work for a bankrupt company. ------------------------------ Date: 14 Feb 2005 01:36:25 -0800 From: Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn) Subject: Re: DCL call to get shadow member status? Message-ID: Ouch! I cannot let this one pass! Can you please explain why you use all the single quotes in $ MBRSTAT = F$GETDVI(''DSKMBR', "EXISTS") The correct syntax is $ MBRSTAT = F$GETDVI(DSKMBR, "EXISTS") And by the way, can you explain WHY your code still DOES work? Regards, Bart Zorn Lee Mah wrote in message news:... > If the prospective shadow member meets any of the following condition, > then it's not eligible for the intended shadow copy. > > $ MBRSTAT = F$GETDVI(''DSKMBR', "EXISTS") ! Must be a valid device. > $ IF MBRSTAT .EQS. "FALSE" > $... > $ MBRSTAT = F$GETDVI(''DSKMBR', "SHDW_MASTER") ! Just in case > you put in wrong device DSA. > $ IF MBRSTAT .EQS. "TRUE" > $... > $ MBRSTAT = F$GETDVI(''DSKMBR', "SHDW_MEMBER") ! Can't be an > existing shadow member. > $ IF MBRSTAT .EQS. "TRUE" > $... > $ MBRSTAT = F$GETDVI(''DSKMBR', "MNT") ! This would check if > it's already copying or merging. > $ IF MBRSTAT .EQS. "TRUE" ! A disk may not be > copying/merging, but it could be already mounted. > $... > > > > bob@instantwhip.com wrote: > > >I have two shadow members dka0 and dka100 ... I want to > >bring in a third shadow set member for a quick backup nightly > >from a batch command routine but I need a vms call to find > >out the status of the dka200 thrid member. If it is copying > >I will wait 5 minutes then continue to check until the status > >shows the disk as a shadow member ... I could do a > > > >$ show device d/out=somefile > > > >and then parse it, but is there a quicker way? > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 10:52:22 +0100 From: Paul Sture Subject: Re: DCL call to get shadow member status? Message-ID: <37bamkF5dfrokU1@individual.net> Bart Zorn wrote: > Ouch! I cannot let this one pass! > > Can you please explain why you use all the single quotes in > > $ MBRSTAT = F$GETDVI(''DSKMBR', "EXISTS") > > The correct syntax is > > $ MBRSTAT = F$GETDVI(DSKMBR, "EXISTS") > > And by the way, can you explain WHY your code still DOES work? > IIRC this syntax dates back to V2.n or thereabouts and, as ever, VMS tries not to break existing code. ------------------------------ Date: 14 Feb 2005 06:48:41 -0800 From: Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn) Subject: Re: DCL call to get shadow member status? Message-ID: Yes, this has worked as lang as DCL has symbol substitution. And just as long this syntax is nonsense. It merely shows that the programmer does not understand what symbol substitution is and how it works. It certainly is NOT old syntax which is still supported! Regards, Bart Zorn Paul Sture wrote in message news:<37bamkF5dfrokU1@individual.net>... > Bart Zorn wrote: > > > Ouch! I cannot let this one pass! > > > > Can you please explain why you use all the single quotes in > > > > $ MBRSTAT = F$GETDVI(''DSKMBR', "EXISTS") > > > > The correct syntax is > > > > $ MBRSTAT = F$GETDVI(DSKMBR, "EXISTS") > > > > And by the way, can you explain WHY your code still DOES work? > > > > IIRC this syntax dates back to V2.n or thereabouts and, as ever, VMS > tries not to break existing code. ------------------------------ Date: 14 Feb 2005 07:05:56 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.com Subject: Re: DCL call to get shadow member status? Message-ID: <1108393556.229944.316950@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> that did the trick ... now backups are a breeze ... I just bring any disk as a third member and then dismount when the copy is done ... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 13:19:58 GMT From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) Subject: Fixing Carly's Mess Message-ID: <2A1Qd.56210$uL5.19835@fe2.texas.rr.com> http://www.business2.com/b2/web/articles/0,17863,1026920,00.html Business 2.0 :: Online Article :: Working Tech :: Fixing Carly's Mess "Fixing Carly's Mess By Owen Thomas, February 10, 2005 [snip] HP's high-end server lines, like Integrity and NonStop, have suffered from years of neglect. Some recent moves, like revamping the Integrity line and extending support for the VMS operating system, have pointed in the right direction. More of the same -- much more -- is needed..." --Jerry Leslie Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email ------------------------------ Date: 14 Feb 2005 07:03:07 GMT From: "Dave Weatherall" Subject: Re: grep on openVMS? Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 03:01:11 UTC, Z wrote: > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > >>>"at" ... "SUBMIT" > >>>(Guess you can tell that at some point I just looked at my HELP display > >>>and picked out some of the more obviously "intuitive" UN*X-land > >>>commands, eh? ;-) > >> > >>Again, the VMS commands are more meaningful to you only because of your > >>past VMS experience. > > > > > > No, actually the VMS commands are more meaningful due to past experience > > with the English language. Those from some countries might not find that > > helpful, but unless David has been fooling us all this time, he is from > > the United States. > > Really? > > How often do you use the word SUBMIT when talking about something you > need to do in the future? I do get your point. On the other hand to be submitting you'd have to know something about Batch queues. When you have that and you've been taught that jobs are submitted to batch queues, the command becomes intuitive. I assume (don't know) that the same is true for using, I believe, cron on Unix. Maybe then, 'at' also becomes intuitive. As ever, everything depends on the context. -- Cheers - Dave W. ------------------------------ Date: 14 Feb 2005 07:03:08 GMT From: "Dave Weatherall" Subject: Re: grep on openVMS? Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 01:46:25 UTC, hamilton@Encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton) wrote: > In article , Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: > !In article , Z writes: > !> David J Dachtera wrote: > ! > !>> "rm" ... "DELETE" > !>> "vi" ... "EDIT" > !>> "cd" ... "SET DEFAULT" > > Devil's advocate - "CHANGE DIRECTORY" is much more intuitive here. Devil's answer. Not always. CD on a DOS-based command line means 'change directory on the device specified'. Most people use it as if it were like DCL's SET DEFAULT, however. Consider :- c:> cd wally That would change the current directory in use on C: to c:\..\wally and by coincidence that's where you'd be working (default directory). c:> cd d:\wally That would change the current directory in use on D: to d:\wally but you'd still be in c: somwhere. You're default directory has not changed. In fact to get there you need to :- c:> d: I offer no claims about Unix or MAC's. -- Cheers - Dave W. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 09:36:17 +0100 From: Paul Sture Subject: Re: grep on openVMS? Message-ID: <37b67vF5anjakU1@individual.net> Larry Kilgallen wrote: > In article , Z writes: > >>David J Dachtera wrote: > > >>>"rm" ... "DELETE" >>>"vi" ... "EDIT" >>>"cd" ... "SET DEFAULT" >>>"ls" ... "DIRECTORY" >>>"tar" ... "BACKUP" >>>"cat" ... "TYPE" >>>"man" ... "HELP" >>>"ps" ... "SHOW SYSTEM" >>>"lpr" ... "PRINT" >>>"at" ... "SUBMIT" >>>(Guess you can tell that at some point I just looked at my HELP display >>>and picked out some of the more obviously "intuitive" UN*X-land >>>commands, eh? ;-) >> >>Again, the VMS commands are more meaningful to you only because of your >>past VMS experience. > > > No, actually the VMS commands are more meaningful due to past experience > with the English language. Those from some countries might not find that > helpful, but unless David has been fooling us all this time, he is from > the United States. And the qualifiers and meanings thereof are consistent across utilities on VMS. Anyone remember the subtle differences between the PDP utilities across RT-11, RSTS and RSX? I know I was once caught out by the fact that /Q for query (/CONFIRM on VMS) was the default on RT-11 PIP, but not on RSTS. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 09:41:23 +0100 From: Paul Sture Subject: Re: grep on openVMS? Message-ID: <37b6hhF5c10deU1@individual.net> Bradford J. Hamilton wrote: > !>> "at" ... "SUBMIT" > > BATCH would be more intuitive here. > But if you came from a mainframe background, SUBMIT was better. cf DOS .BAT files which can be submitted by the AT command on NT, or run interactively. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 10:47:03 +0100 From: Paul Sture Subject: Re: grep on openVMS? Message-ID: <37baclF574mptU1@individual.net> Dave Froble wrote: > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > >> In article , >> hamilton@Encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton) writes: >> >>> In article , >>> Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: >>> !In article , Z writes: >>> !> David J Dachtera wrote: >>> ! >>> !>> "rm" ... "DELETE" >>> !>> "vi" ... "EDIT" >>> !>> "cd" ... "SET DEFAULT" >>> >>> Devil's advocate - "CHANGE DIRECTORY" is much more intuitive here. >> >> >> >> If so, do you know of an operating system which provides a command >> called CHANGE DIRECTORY ? > > > I'm going to reverse my earlier claim that all DCL verbs are better than > the unix commands. Well, somewhat. > > What you're doing is changing the default directory, and CHANGE > DIRECTORY is quite defining. As for the fact that it's just CD on most > systems, well, how about a show of hands of those who do NOT have a > symbol SD as a shortcut for SET DEFAULT. > > And yes, BACKUP is a computereze word, and not really real clear to an > english speaker. > > But overall, I personally feel that DCL is clearer to an english speaker > than anything else. That makes me wonder whether the cryptic Unix > commands might actually be easier for a non-english speaker. > Having started out my IT life with meaningless utility names (XPJC for sort, XPCK for link on an ICL system, for example), I greatly appreciated the early form of DCL which came with RT-11 and then the better version with VMS. I do recall thinking it somewhat verbose at first, but not only have my typing skills improved significantly since the early days, but line transmission (think full screen editor over a modem) and CPU speeds (think DCL execution time on early VAXen) have increased greatly too. But I came across an example of what you refer to just recently. Someone was (IIRC not a native English speaker) saying that he _liked_ cryptic commands because they were obviously computer instructions and saying that Applescript on OS X was _too_ English like for him. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 12:12:45 -0000 From: "Alex Daniels" Subject: Re: grep on openVMS? Message-ID: <421095be$0$32615$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk> "Bradford J. Hamilton" wrote in message news:cuovtg$b5d$1@grandcanyon.binc.net... > VMS is more intuitive than UNIX, but there are still some arbitrary choices > here. I don't remember much of PRIMOS, but I think that some of the CL was > yet more intuitive. bill g., care to comment? > Don't know about Bill, but I found PRIMOS to be very intuative, as I do VMS. Of course most people hevily personailsed it with 'abbrev' anyway. As for UNIX, well no it simply is not. And UNIX arguments are not even worth a comparison of intuitiveness' compared to VMS qualifiers. PRIMOS COMMANDS (A) ABBREV Allows users to create and use abbreviations for PRIMOS commands and their arguments. ASRCWD Used only with serial I/O; ASRCWD 0 recovers a diverted terminal line from a serial printer, card reader or punch. ASSIGN User gains complete control over a disk or peripheral device. ATTACH Directory named by pathname, ufd-name, or name becomes the working directory. AVAIL Gives disk usage statistics for the current disk. With no argument, gives current disk. With pathname, or with disk number, gives specified disk. With * gives all started disks. PRIMOS COMMANDS (B) BASIC Runs the BASIC Language interpreter. BASICV Runs the compiling, virtual-memory BASIC. BASINP Loads non-Prime BASIC from paper tape into pathname BATCH -DISPLAY Displays information on jobs being processed by the Batch subsystem. BATGEN Lists name and status for each Batch queue, or displays the queuename, status, and characteristics for each queue. BINARY Opens pathname for writing on file unit 3 for output. Equivalent to OPEN pathname 3 2. PRIMOS COMMANDS (C) CLOSE Closes specified files and file units (except a COMOUTPUT file which is closed by COMO -E) CMPF Compares lines in up to five ASCII files, showing insertions/changes/deletions from file-a. CNAME Changes name of file or directory. CNAME requires owner status to the directory. COBOL Runs the COBOL compiler. COMINPUT Reads command input from pathname instead of terminal. Input file unit is 6 (default) unless funit is specified. CLOSE ALL will close the COMINPUT file-unit causing the error message, "Unit not open. Cominput (Input from terminal)". COMOUTPUT Sends output stream to file specified by pathname or file opened on unit '177. Not closed by CLOSE ALL. CONCAT Combines a number of input files into an output file suitable for spooling. CPL Invokes the CPL interpreter and executes the CPL program named by pathname.generate C flow graph CPMPC Punches the file pathname on ASSIGNEed card reader/ punch 0 or 1. Does not punch a $E end-of-file card. CREATE Creates a new directory as specified by pathname, with blank owner and zero non-owner passwords. The protection keys are set to 7 0 CRMPC Reads cards from parallel interface card reader 0 or 1 into file specified by pathname. Cards are translated into ASCII. PRIMOS COMMANDS (D) DATE Displays the current date and time. DBASIC Runs double-precision interpretive BASIC. DBG Invokes the source level debugger. DEFINE_GVAR Activates the named global variable file. DELAY Sets terminal delay characteristics. Can be set prior to LOGIN. DELETE Deletes pathname (either a file or an empty directory). DELETE_VAR Deletes the named variables from an active global variable file. Variable names may be wildcard names. DELSEG Deassigns a segment. The ALL option releases all segments belonging to user. DMSTK The DMSTK command produces a call/return trace of the user's command loop stack and Static Mode stack (if any). PRIMOS COMMANDS (E) ED Edits existing or new file. EDB The binary editor is used for building and maintaining libraries of subroutines. PRIMOS COMMANDS (F) F77 Invokes FORTRAN 77 compiler. FILEMEM Clears contents of user address space to zeros for unsegmented programs. FILVER Compares two files. Prints out differances in octal. FTN Invokes FORTRAN compiler. FUTIL FUTIL is the interactive file manipulation utility. It responds with a prompt character, >, and waits for sub-commands. PRIMOS COMMANDS (H) HDXSTAT Displays the current status of all lines and sites of a half duplex (HDX) network configuration. HPSD HPSD loads a version of PSD (Prime Symbolic Debugger) that is stored in the upper portion of memory. PRIMOS COMMANDS (I) INPUT Opens pathname for reading on file unit 1. Equivilant to OPEN filename 1 1 PRIMOS COMMANDS (J) JOB Submits and controls jobs for Batch execution. PRIMOS COMMANDS (L) LABEL Creates an ANSI COBOL level 1 volume label on a magnetic tape or reads an existing label. The magnetic tape unit must be ASSIGNed. LATE Requests a time in 24-hour HHMM format at which the next command will be processed. If the specified time is earlier than the current time, execution is deferred until the following day. The terminal cannot be used for any other purpose until after the time specified. LISTF Displays current directory name, logical drive and names of all files, sub-UFDs and segment directories in the current directory. Displays OWNER or NONOWNer status for current directory. LISTING Opens a file for writing on file unit 2. Equivalent to OPEN pathname 2 2. LIST_VAR Lists named variables and their values from an active global variable file. Variable name may be wildcard names. LOAD Invokes the Linking Loader. LOAD loads programs for R-mode code generated by PMA, FORTRAM or RPGII. To load segmented code, use the command SEG. LOGIN Log in to specified ufdname. LOGOUT Log out user or phantom user. PRIMOS COMMANDS (M) MAGNET MAGNET is an interactive magnetic tape utility that transfers non-Prime-format magnetic tapes to and from PRIMOS disk files. MAGRST Restores files, directory-trees or partitions from a magnetic tape created with MAGSAV. The tape unit must be ASSIGNed. MAGSAV Writes a PRIMOS disk file, directory-tree or partition to 7 or 9-track magnetic tape. The tape unit must be ASSIGNed. MDL Memory dump/load to/from punched paper tape. MESSAGE Waits for one line of text and sends it to operator's or another user's console. MRGF Merged up to five files into a single file. PRIMOS COMMANDS (N) NCOBOL Invokes the non-shared (R-mode) COBOL compiler. NETLINK Connects user to any system on the Public Data Network. NSED NSED is the non-shared version of the text editor. NUMBER Numbers/re-numbers statements in a BASIC program. PRIMOS COMMANDS (O) OPEN Opens specified pathname on specified unit. Type of file and access mode are specifed as well. PRIMOS COMMANDS (P) PASCAL Invokes the PASCAL compiler. PASSWD Changes owner and non-owner passwords of current directory (only for user attached as owner). PHANTOM Runs the command file or CPL program specified as a phantom user. PL1G Invokes the PL/1, Subset G, compiler. PM Displays contents of RVEC user register vector. PMA Invokes Prime's Macro Assembler. PRERR Displays ERRVEC messages set by ERRSET and first six octal locations in ERRVEC or prints ERRVEC and last error message. Obsolete PRMPG Prints specified pathname on MPG parallel interface printer (PR0) previously ASSIGNed. PROP Tells users which printers and/or plotetrs are running, and what their environments are. PROTEC Sets protection rights on the specified pathname. PRSER Prints the specified pathname on serial ineterface printer (CEN) previously ASSIGNed. PRVER Prints the specified pathname on a configured printer/ plotter. PSD Invokes the Prime Symbolic Debugger. PTCPY Duplicates and verifies paper tape, using the previously assigned high-speed paper tape reader and paper tape punch. PRIMOS COMMANDS (R) RDY Allows users to choose prompt message to be displayed at their terminals and in their COMOUTPUT files. RESTOR Restores runfile contained in the specified pathname into memory. RESUME Runs (restores and starts) external program contained in the specified pathname. RLS Discards unwanted stack history. RPG Invokes the Prime RPGII Compiler. RSTERM Empties the user terminal's input and/or output buffers. RUNOFF Invokes Prime RUNOFF text processor. PRIMOS COMMANDS (S) SAVE Saves memory (segment '4000) from sa (start address) to ea (end address) as a file. SEG Invokes a utility for loading, modifying, running, and sharing segmented (V-mode) programs. SET_VAR At command level, defines a global variable and places it and its value in the global variable file. SIZE Displays data size of specified pathname in normalized records, which is words/440, rounded up. SLIST Prints (or displays) the contents of a file at the user's terminal. SORT Sorts ASCII, variable length, or fixed length files. SPOOL Queues disk files for line printer or plotter. START Starts execution. Initializes process registers and keys, and starts execution at pc. Assumes that a program is in memory. If pc is not specified, execution resumes at point of interruption. STATUS Displays user or system status. SVCSW Sets SVC switch, which controls handling of the SVC instruction in the virtual memory environment. PRIMOS COMMANDS (T) TERM Sets terminal characteristics. (Resets to defaults on logout.) TIME Displays connect time (in hours and minutes), and compute and disk I/O times (in minutes and seconds). TRAMLC Transmits or receives a file over an assigned AMLC line between two Prime computer systems. TYPE Prints text at user's terminal or into a command output file. PRIMOS COMMANDS (U) UNASSIGN Releases a device (or communications line) previously ASSIGNed. UPCASE Replaces lower case letters in the specifed file with corresponding upper case letters. USERS Displays number of current users. PRIMOS COMMANDS (V) VPSD, VPSD16 Invokes the Virtual-mode Prime Symbolic Debugger. VRTSSW Sets a user's virtual sense switches, which are available to the user's program via the INA '1620 (read sense switches) instruction. PRIMOS COMMANDS ($$) $$ JOB Controls submission and execution of batch jobs. Must appear as first line in job file. Alex ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 12:50:47 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: grep on openVMS? Message-ID: In article <1108333457.7c6d0cf73029e7e414fcc4c3b17b101d@teranews>, JF Mezei writes: >David J Dachtera wrote: >> "rm" ... "DELETE" > REMOVE >> "vi" ... "EDIT" > VI is a "brand name" editor. > >> "cd" ... "SET DEFAULT" > This is de facto standard on most platforms now, >> >> "ls" ... "DIRECTORY" > Comes from "LIST" (list of files) >> "tar" ... "BACKUP" > TAR is a well known backup format now. Not so obscure. > >> "cat" ... "TYPE" > Comes from Concatenate. (think APPEND myfile.dat sys$output:) >> "man" ... "HELP" > MANUAL >> "ps" ... "SHOW SYSTEM" > ok, so that one is obscure. >> "lpr" ... "PRINT" > Line Printer. (and LPR is now a well known printer protocol)_ > > >Once you knwo the meaning of the commands, they really aren't so >obscure. And just how do you remember all the qualifiers available for >each VMS command ? You just remember them from previous uses. Same >thing for those human being who morphed into Unix geeks. They just >learsn those -x switches and remember them. Just like you remember how >to construct an english language sentence, they remember how to >construct a unix language sentence. The qualifiers on VMS are also English words (and in general they are consistent between commands). The qualifiers on UNIX are single upper or lowercase letters and they are generally not consistent between commands. David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University ------------------------------ Date: 14 Feb 2005 14:15:17 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: grep on openVMS? Message-ID: <37bq3lF55pfgjU1@individual.net> In article , "Dave Weatherall" writes: > > I do get your point. On the other hand to be submitting you'd have to > know something about Batch queues. When you have that and you've been > taught that jobs are submitted to batch queues, the command becomes > intuitive. Ummmm..... Thingfs don't "become" intuitive when you learn about them, they become learned. intuitive adj 1: spontaneously derived from or prompted by a natural tendency; "an intuitive revulsion" 2: obtained through intuition rather than from reasoning or observation [syn: {nonrational}, {visceral}] > I assume (don't know) that the same is true for using, I > believe, cron on Unix. Cron is the background task that manages scheduled jobs, not a user command. > Maybe then, 'at' also becomes intuitive. As > ever, everything depends on the context. Nothing about the user interface of computers is intuititve. Apple tried to claim (in the early days when the Mac was new) that the use of the mouse was somehow "intuitive". That didn't turn out to be particularly true either. Thus the reason they included a game (puzzle) as part of the base system to get people to fiddle with the mouse till they felt comfortable with it. No one sits down at any computer for the first time and is immediately productive. It takes time to learn the basics of the system and no system is naturally easier to learn than any other. In most cases, "mother duck" syndrome applies and whichever system one first becomes comfortable with will become their favorite. (unless something occurs to turn them against it, like proselytizing!) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 14 Feb 2005 14:24:38 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: grep on openVMS? Message-ID: <37bql6F55pfgjU2@individual.net> In article <37b67vF5anjakU1@individual.net>, Paul Sture writes: > Larry Kilgallen wrote: >> In article , Z writes: >> >>>David J Dachtera wrote: >> >> >>>>"rm" ... "DELETE" >>>>"vi" ... "EDIT" >>>>"cd" ... "SET DEFAULT" >>>>"ls" ... "DIRECTORY" >>>>"tar" ... "BACKUP" >>>>"cat" ... "TYPE" >>>>"man" ... "HELP" >>>>"ps" ... "SHOW SYSTEM" >>>>"lpr" ... "PRINT" >>>>"at" ... "SUBMIT" >>>>(Guess you can tell that at some point I just looked at my HELP display >>>>and picked out some of the more obviously "intuitive" UN*X-land >>>>commands, eh? ;-) >>> >>>Again, the VMS commands are more meaningful to you only because of your >>>past VMS experience. >> >> >> No, actually the VMS commands are more meaningful due to past experience >> with the English language. Those from some countries might not find that >> helpful, but unless David has been fooling us all this time, he is from >> the United States. > > And the qualifiers and meanings thereof are consistent across utilities > on VMS. > > Anyone remember the subtle differences between the PDP utilities across > RT-11, RSTS and RSX? I know I was once caught out by the fact that /Q > for query (/CONFIRM on VMS) was the default on RT-11 PIP, but not on RSTS. Funny you should mention those OSes. They pre-date VMS. They started about the same time as Unix. And they had commands like PIP, DUP, LIBR, FILEX, SRCCOM, BINCOM, RESORC, ODT, SIPP and SLP. And, guess what, they still do. And these commands take single letter qualifiers. Go figure. Of course, over time they developed wrappers that let people use commands like DIRECTORY and COPY with full word qualifiers like BRIEF, FREE and SORT. But the originals are still there and some of us still use them. As I have said before, you can do the asme thing for Unix, but most users opt not to. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 14 Feb 2005 14:42:29 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: grep on openVMS? Message-ID: <37brmlF5bguptU1@individual.net> In article <421095be$0$32615$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>, "Alex Daniels" writes: > "Bradford J. Hamilton" wrote in message > news:cuovtg$b5d$1@grandcanyon.binc.net... >> VMS is more intuitive than UNIX, but there are still some arbitrary > choices >> here. I don't remember much of PRIMOS, but I think that some of the CL > was >> yet more intuitive. bill g., care to comment? >> > > Don't know about Bill, but I found PRIMOS to be very intuative, as I do VMS. > Of course most people hevily personailsed it with 'abbrev' anyway. None of it is intuitive, All of it is learned. > > As for UNIX, well no it simply is not. > > And UNIX arguments are not even worth a comparison of intuitiveness' > compared to VMS qualifiers. Again, matter of opinion. It should be noted, however, that this is changing, even as we speak. More and more Unix commands today have full word qualifiers as well as the typical single letter one's many of us ar familiar with and like. :-) For example: cpio {-o|--create} [-0acvABLV] [-C bytes] [-H format] [-M message] [-O [[user@]host:]archive] [-F [[user@]host:]archive] [--file=[[user@]host:]archive] [--format=format] [--message=message] [--null] [--reset- access-time] [--verbose] [--dot] [--append] [--block- size=blocks] [--dereference] [--io-size=bytes] [--quiet] [--force-local] [--help] [--version] < name-list [> archive] I was going to post this, but you beat me to it. But let's take a look at a few of them. > > PRIMOS COMMANDS (A) > ABBREV Allows users to create and use abbreviations for PRIMOS commands and > their arguments. > ASRCWD Used only with serial I/O; ASRCWD 0 recovers a diverted terminal line ^^^^^^ intuitive? > from a serial printer, card reader or punch. > ASSIGN User gains complete control over a disk or peripheral device. > ATTACH Directory named by pathname, ufd-name, or name becomes the working > directory. > AVAIL Gives disk usage statistics for the current disk. With no argument, > gives current disk. With pathname, or with disk number, gives specified > disk. With * gives all started disks. > > > PRIMOS COMMANDS (B) > BASIC Runs the BASIC Language interpreter. > BASICV Runs the compiling, virtual-memory BASIC. > BASINP Loads non-Prime BASIC from paper tape into pathname ^^^^^^ intuitive? > BATCH -DISPLAY Displays information on jobs being processed by the Batch > subsystem. > BATGEN Lists name and status for each Batch queue, or displays the ^^^^^^ intuitive? > queuename, status, and characteristics for each queue. > BINARY Opens pathname for writing on file unit 3 for output. Equivalent to > OPEN pathname 3 2. > > PRIMOS COMMANDS (C) > CLOSE Closes specified files and file units (except a COMOUTPUT file which > is closed by COMO -E) > CMPF Compares lines in up to five ASCII files, showing ^^^^ intuitive? > insertions/changes/deletions from file-a. > CNAME Changes name of file or directory. CNAME requires owner status to the ^^^^^^ intuitive? > directory. > COBOL Runs the COBOL compiler. > COMINPUT Reads command input from pathname instead of terminal. Input file > unit is 6 (default) unless funit is specified. CLOSE ALL will close the > COMINPUT file-unit causing the error message, "Unit not open. Cominput > (Input from terminal)". > COMOUTPUT Sends output stream to file specified by pathname or file opened > on unit '177. Not closed by CLOSE ALL. > CONCAT Combines a number of input files into an output file suitable for > spooling. > CPL Invokes the CPL interpreter and executes the CPL program named by > pathname.generate C flow graph > CPMPC Punches the file pathname on ASSIGNEed card reader/ punch 0 or 1. Does > not punch a $E end-of-file card. > CREATE Creates a new directory as specified by pathname, with blank owner > and zero non-owner passwords. The protection keys are set to 7 0 > CRMPC Reads cards from parallel interface card reader 0 or 1 into file ^^^^^^ intuitive? > specified by pathname. Cards are translated into ASCII. > > PRIMOS COMMANDS (D) > DATE Displays the current date and time. > DBASIC Runs double-precision interpretive BASIC. > DBG Invokes the source level debugger. ^^^^^^ intuitive? > DEFINE_GVAR Activates the named global variable file. > DELAY Sets terminal delay characteristics. Can be set prior to LOGIN. > DELETE Deletes pathname (either a file or an empty directory). > DELETE_VAR Deletes the named variables from an active global variable file. > Variable names may be wildcard names. > DELSEG Deassigns a segment. The ALL option releases all segments belonging > to user. > DMSTK The DMSTK command produces a call/return trace of the user's command ^^^^^^ intuitive? > loop stack and Static Mode stack (if any). > > PRIMOS COMMANDS (E) > ED Edits existing or new file. > EDB The binary editor is used for building and maintaining libraries of ^^^^^^ intuitive? > subroutines. > > PRIMOS COMMANDS (F) > F77 Invokes FORTRAN 77 compiler. > FILEMEM Clears contents of user address space to zeros for unsegmented ^^^^^^ intuitive? > programs. > FILVER Compares two files. Prints out differances in octal. ^^^^^^ intuitive? > FTN Invokes FORTRAN compiler. > FUTIL FUTIL is the interactive file manipulation utility. It responds with a ^^^^^^ intuitive? > prompt character, >, and waits for sub-commands. > > PRIMOS COMMANDS (H) > HDXSTAT Displays the current status of all lines and sites of a half duplex ^^^^^^ intuitive? > (HDX) network configuration. > HPSD HPSD loads a version of PSD (Prime Symbolic Debugger) that is stored in ^^^^^^ intuitive? > the upper portion of memory. > > PRIMOS COMMANDS (I) > INPUT Opens pathname for reading on file unit 1. Equivilant to > OPEN filename 1 1 > > PRIMOS COMMANDS (J) > JOB Submits and controls jobs for Batch execution. > > PRIMOS COMMANDS (L) > LABEL Creates an ANSI COBOL level 1 volume label on a magnetic tape or reads > an existing label. The magnetic tape unit must be ASSIGNed. > LATE Requests a time in 24-hour HHMM format at which the next command will > be processed. If the specified time is earlier than the current time, > execution is deferred until the following day. The terminal cannot be used > for any other purpose until after the time specified. > LISTF Displays current directory name, logical drive and names of all files, > sub-UFDs and segment directories in the current directory. Displays OWNER or > NONOWNer status for current directory. > LISTING Opens a file for writing on file unit 2. Equivalent to > OPEN pathname 2 2. > LIST_VAR Lists named variables and their values from an active global > variable file. Variable name may be wildcard names. > LOAD Invokes the Linking Loader. LOAD loads programs for R-mode code > generated by PMA, FORTRAM or RPGII. To load segmented code, use the command > SEG. > LOGIN Log in to specified ufdname. > LOGOUT Log out user or phantom user. > > PRIMOS COMMANDS (M) > MAGNET MAGNET is an interactive magnetic tape utility that transfers ^^^^^^ intuitive? > non-Prime-format magnetic tapes to and from PRIMOS disk files. > MAGRST Restores files, directory-trees or partitions from a magnetic tape ^^^^^^ intuitive? > created with MAGSAV. The tape unit must be ASSIGNed. > MAGSAV Writes a PRIMOS disk file, directory-tree or partition to 7 or ^^^^^^ intuitive? > 9-track magnetic tape. The tape unit must be ASSIGNed. > MDL Memory dump/load to/from punched paper tape. ^^^^^^ intuitive? > MESSAGE Waits for one line of text and sends it to operator's or another > user's console. > MRGF Merged up to five files into a single file. ^^^^^^ intuitive? > > PRIMOS COMMANDS (N) > NCOBOL Invokes the non-shared (R-mode) COBOL compiler. > NETLINK Connects user to any system on the Public Data Network. > NSED NSED is the non-shared version of the text editor. ^^^^^^ intuitive? > NUMBER Numbers/re-numbers statements in a BASIC program. > > PRIMOS COMMANDS (O) > OPEN Opens specified pathname on specified unit. Type of file and access > mode are specifed as well. > > PRIMOS COMMANDS (P) > PASCAL Invokes the PASCAL compiler. > PASSWD Changes owner and non-owner passwords of current directory (only for > user attached as owner). > PHANTOM Runs the command file or CPL program specified as a phantom user. > PL1G Invokes the PL/1, Subset G, compiler. > PM Displays contents of RVEC user register vector. ^^^^^^ intuitive? > PMA Invokes Prime's Macro Assembler. ^^^^^^ intuitive? > PRERR Displays ERRVEC messages set by ERRSET and first six octal locations > in ERRVEC or prints ERRVEC and last error message. Obsolete > PRMPG Prints specified pathname on MPG parallel interface printer (PR0) > previously ASSIGNed. > PROP Tells users which printers and/or plotetrs are running, and what their > environments are. > PROTEC Sets protection rights on the specified pathname. > PRSER Prints the specified pathname on serial ineterface printer (CEN) > previously ASSIGNed. > PRVER Prints the specified pathname on a configured printer/ plotter. > PSD Invokes the Prime Symbolic Debugger. ^^^^^^ intuitive? > PTCPY Duplicates and verifies paper tape, using the previously assigned > high-speed paper tape reader and paper tape punch. > > PRIMOS COMMANDS (R) > RDY Allows users to choose prompt message to be displayed at their terminals ^^^^^^ intuitive? > and in their COMOUTPUT files. > RESTOR Restores runfile contained in the specified pathname into memory. > RESUME Runs (restores and starts) external program contained in the > specified pathname. > RLS Discards unwanted stack history. ^^^^^^ intuitive? > RPG Invokes the Prime RPGII Compiler. > RSTERM Empties the user terminal's input and/or output buffers. > RUNOFF Invokes Prime RUNOFF text processor. > > PRIMOS COMMANDS (S) > SAVE Saves memory (segment '4000) from sa (start address) to ea (end > address) as a file. > SEG Invokes a utility for loading, modifying, running, and sharing segmented > (V-mode) programs. > SET_VAR At command level, defines a global variable and places it and its > value in the global variable file. > SIZE Displays data size of specified pathname in normalized records, which > is words/440, rounded up. > SLIST Prints (or displays) the contents of a file at the user's terminal. ^^^^^^ intuitive? > SORT Sorts ASCII, variable length, or fixed length files. > SPOOL Queues disk files for line printer or plotter. > START Starts execution. Initializes process registers and keys, and starts > execution at pc. Assumes that a program is in memory. If pc is not > specified, execution resumes at point of interruption. > STATUS Displays user or system status. > SVCSW Sets SVC switch, which controls handling of the SVC instruction in the > virtual memory environment. > > PRIMOS COMMANDS (T) > TERM Sets terminal characteristics. (Resets to defaults on logout.) > TIME Displays connect time (in hours and minutes), and compute and disk I/O > times (in minutes and seconds). > TRAMLC Transmits or receives a file over an assigned AMLC line between two ^^^^^^ intuitive? > Prime computer systems. > TYPE Prints text at user's terminal or into a command output file. > > PRIMOS COMMANDS (U) > UNASSIGN Releases a device (or communications line) previously ASSIGNed. > UPCASE Replaces lower case letters in the specifed file with corresponding > upper case letters. > USERS Displays number of current users. > > PRIMOS COMMANDS (V) > VPSD, VPSD16 Invokes the Virtual-mode Prime Symbolic Debugger. > VRTSSW Sets a user's virtual sense switches, which are available to the > user's program via the INA '1620 (read sense switches) instruction. > > PRIMOS COMMANDS ($$) > $$ JOB Controls submission and execution of batch jobs. Must appear as first > line in job file. Many of them are shortened words like Unix uses. Some of them appear to be little more than random strings, unless you are already familiar with PRIMOS. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 14 Feb 2005 14:44:39 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: grep on openVMS? Message-ID: <37brqnF5bguptU2@individual.net> In article , david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes: > In article <1108333457.7c6d0cf73029e7e414fcc4c3b17b101d@teranews>, JF Mezei writes: >>David J Dachtera wrote: >>> "rm" ... "DELETE" >> REMOVE >>> "vi" ... "EDIT" >> VI is a "brand name" editor. >> >>> "cd" ... "SET DEFAULT" >> This is de facto standard on most platforms now, >>> >>> "ls" ... "DIRECTORY" >> Comes from "LIST" (list of files) >>> "tar" ... "BACKUP" >> TAR is a well known backup format now. Not so obscure. >> >>> "cat" ... "TYPE" >> Comes from Concatenate. (think APPEND myfile.dat sys$output:) >>> "man" ... "HELP" >> MANUAL >>> "ps" ... "SHOW SYSTEM" >> ok, so that one is obscure. >>> "lpr" ... "PRINT" >> Line Printer. (and LPR is now a well known printer protocol)_ >> >> >>Once you knwo the meaning of the commands, they really aren't so >>obscure. And just how do you remember all the qualifiers available for >>each VMS command ? You just remember them from previous uses. Same >>thing for those human being who morphed into Unix geeks. They just >>learsn those -x switches and remember them. Just like you remember how >>to construct an english language sentence, they remember how to >>construct a unix language sentence. > > The qualifiers on VMS are also English words (and in general they are > consistent between commands). The qualifiers on UNIX are single upper or > lowercase letters and they are generally not consistent between commands. > See my previous post on this subject. While that may have been true originally, even Unix commands are changing. Probably because there are more and more people using it for whom the Unix system is not something familiar. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 09:04:05 -0800 From: DeanW Subject: Re: grep on openVMS? Message-ID: <3f119ada0502140904246ec6e1@mail.gmail.com> JF Mezei: > Beach Runner wrote: > > Oh Yes, > > GREP is a much more human interface than Search. > > And the MAC's "find" menu is far more human friendly than SEARCH on VMS. Now you're comparing apples to pomegranates, GUI features to CLI. (And if you want to talk about the CLI on a mac, you're talking *nix...) Bradford J Hamilton: >DJD: >>> "cd" ... "SET DEFAULT" >Devil's advocate - "CHANGE DIRECTORY" is much more intuitive here. Neither makes sense to someone who has no grasp of what a "directory" is. At this point, if they're coming from a PC (or mac?) GUI background, they're more likely to know "folder" than "directory". GO or GOTO makes as much sense at that phase. Too bad there are issues with that in DCL, or I'd use it. >> "tar" ... "BACKUP" > TAR is a well known backup format now. Not so obscure. Tar is what you put on asphalt roads or maybe your roof. Nasty smelling black stuff. SAVE might work for a command to place a copy of a file someplace where it's less likely to be changed/deleted. RUN .... to do something; add AFTER if you want it to start later on. VMS commands seem to me to be closer to natural language. If I were to try to teach my SO or her 13 year old, neither of whom have much experience outside point'n'drool, to use *nix or VMS, I imagine better success with VMS. Surely there have been usability studies? But really- who sits a complete novice down and walks off? You sit them by someone's elbow who's done the job for years. At the end of the training, neither of them will know *why* they type SET DEF SYS$MYAPP @STARTAPP before they can start work- they'll just know that's what they do (assuming that's not in their login script, which it probably should be). if you want to talk about *developers*, that's a different can of clam chowder. I expect if I started working in *nix more than the playing around I do now, it wouldn't take me long to get comfortable. As for the topic at hand, I find grep and SEARCH both have strengths and weaknesses. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 04:14:54 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Happy Valentines to Sue ! Message-ID: <1108371784.7655dbd916fbf359045494f23f55d647@teranews> A very happy Valentines Day to Sue and all other female workers in the VMS group. Every VMS engineer should take a few moments to find Sue and give her a few kisses on behalf of the comp.os.vms participants :-) ------------------------------ Date: 14 Feb 2005 05:43:36 -0800 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com Subject: Re: Happy Valentines to Sue ! Message-ID: <1108388616.573759.151710@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> Sounds like its going to be a good day. Sue ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 12:34:18 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: Is $3 million really so much to spend.... Message-ID: In article <87mzu9cze2.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, prep@prep.synonet.com writes: >bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > >> In article <87fz03jdrs.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, >> prep@prep.synonet.com writes: >>> young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes: > >>>> In article , >>>> "Kenneth Farmer" writes: > >>>>> How may people watch the Superbowl? 60 million? > >>>> http://www.superbowl.com/features/general_info > >>>> Super Bowl XXXVIII TV audience: Last year's game was the most >>>> watched program ever with 144.4 million viewers. The 10 >>>> most-watched programs in TV history are all Super Bowls. > >>> More than Apollo 11? I don't think so. > >> I know it's hard for modern civilized man to even comprehend life >> without television, but I can assure you that at the time of Apollo >> 11 there were a lot fewer TV's in both the world and the USofA. >> Satellite TV wasn't even a gleam in some inventors eye. Most of the >> world didn't get to watch it live and neither did a lot of people in >> the states. (I didn't!!) > >OK, I'll add you to Collins for the `didn't see' list. > >I can't remember if we had a TV or not, `69 was the year we got one >but I can't remember if it was before or after. > >We walked out of school, en masse, and spent the day wastching the >whole thing. I think the coverage went non stop through to 7pm, >1300 GMT. > As I recall TV was pretty widespread in Britain by 1969. Just about everybody at school had a TV at home (either purchased or rented). I don't think that Colour TV was very widespread but you didn't need that to watch the Apollo 11 coverage. David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University >-- >Paul Repacholi 1 Crescent Rd., >+61 (08) 9257-1001 Kalamunda. > West Australia 6076 >comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot >Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked. >EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 19:03:24 +0100 From: Paul Sture Subject: Re: Is $3 million really so much to spend.... Message-ID: <37c7fdF5c9lmnU1@individual.net> david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > > As I recall TV was pretty widespread in Britain by 1969. > Just about everybody at school had a TV at home (either purchased or rented). > I don't think that Colour TV was very widespread but you didn't need that to > watch the Apollo 11 coverage. > I can recall watching it on a B&W TV then retiring to bed, where I could hear the commentary from my neighbours' TV (it must have been a warm day, as they were watching it in the garden). Colour TV came to our house in time for Princess Anne's wedding (late 1973), and was firmly rented, since they had a reputation for unreliability. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 09:32:30 -0500 From: "John Smith" Subject: Re: More HP should...... Message-ID: Dave Froble wrote: > John Smith wrote: > >> >> Nearly $5k isn't such a low cost system at the low-end. It may be >> for an Itanic, but not for the legions. > > Half that for developers. > > Which is still 5 times what an x86 can be had for. > > The other side of that is, what can one do with a $500 PC. The > Microsoft developer stuff isn't cheap. It's my understanding that a > developer gets media and stuff for free. Not sure about licenses. Basic licences for the MSDN (Developer Network) run ~$1-3,000 per year for just about everything that MS has. It includes a certain amount of tech support too. http://msdn.microsoft.com/howtobuy/subscribers/ There are other deal MS offers too, for under $500 p.a. for their o/s and layered apps. Just add your own tin. And all these licences are commercial-use, not hobbyist. > Maybe the itanic for development isn't such a bad deal. It's still to expensive for mass adoption. Look at the model.....in the PC world nobody besides Dell makes money (or very much money) on low-end PC's - the bulk of the money is made on blade servers and Xeon servers. Translation: a 'loss leader' or low-margin product is used to create demand for higher-margin products. It also ensures that there is a continual supply of software to support the varied demands of a broad range of customers, some of whom will buy your expensive servers.Even if you just break-even on it, it can be thought of as a cost of marketing - which generally cost you money (freebie golf balls, t-shirts just like the VMS one they gave carly(tm), etc...) -- OpenVMS - The classics never go out of style. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 12:15:50 -0600 From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) Subject: Mounting disks during STARTUP Message-ID: <05021412155024@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com> VMS V7.2-1h1 Alpha I mount various disks drives in the following command files: SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGICALS.COM SYS$MANAGER:SYPAGSWPFILES.COM SYS$MANAGER:SYSECURITY.COM SYS$MANAGER:SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM (basic order of startup) In all cases, the disks being mounted are always online as they are being served by HSG80 controllers - so there is not spin-up wait time. I started thinking why not mount all the disk drives in one command file rather than the multiple locations as is now. I was thinking that either one of the following would be ideal for this purpose: SYS$MANAGER:SYCONFIG.COM SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGICALS.COM I am aware that if I use SYS$MANAGER:SYCONFIG.COM I would need to execute the following: $ MCR SYSMAN SYSMAN IO AUTOCONFIGURE The reason to use SYCONFIG is to keep the startup strategy in tact. By Startup Strategy I mean: - in SYLOGICALS perform logical definitions - in SYPAGESWPFILES perform page/swap file installs - etc. I tend to believe that there should be a separate startup process for mounting disks - since most everything you do at startup requires not only CPU and Memory but Disk drives as well. Pretty much a rudimentary requirement to have your disk drives mounted prior to completing startup. Any thoughts on using either SYCONFIG or SYLOGICALS? Anyone doing something similar they would care to share with us? TIA John "REBOOT" Brandon VMS Systems Administrator firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 15:41:37 GMT From: "Jeff Goodwin" Subject: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution Message-ID: My OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution arrived today. You'll all be happy to know that the box has a Java Compatible logo on it. :) -Jeff ------------------------------ Date: 14 Feb 2005 17:52:40 +0100 From: pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40) Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution Message-ID: In article , "Jeff Goodwin" writes: > My OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution arrived today. > > You'll all be happy to know that the box has a Java Compatible logo on it. > :) Fine !! Is there also a new version of the freeware CD's ? Patrick -- =============================================================================== pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (CENA) ______ ___ _ (Patrick MOREAU) moreau_p@decus.fr (DECUS) / / / / /| /| CENA/Athis-Mons FRANCE / /___/ / / | / | __ __ __ __ BP 205 / / / / |/ | | | |__| |__ |__| | | 94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX / / :: / / | |__| | \ |__ | | |__| http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/ http://www.multimania.com/pmoreau/ =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:50:06 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution Message-ID: <00A3F61C.2BF669F4@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article , "Jeff Goodwin" writes: >My OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution arrived today. > >You'll all be happy to know that the box has a Java Compatible logo on it. Why would that make me happy? -- http://www.ProvN.com for the *best* OpenVMS system security solutions that others only claim to be. -- Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.: The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software product! -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 18:30:10 GMT From: "Jeff Goodwin" Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution Message-ID: "Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40" wrote in message news:PigWQxOSQGBz@sinead... > In article , "Jeff Goodwin" writes: > > My OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution arrived today. > > > > You'll all be happy to know that the box has a Java Compatible logo on it. > > :) > > Fine !! > > Is there also a new version of the freeware CD's ? It has Freeware V7 in it. > > Patrick > -- > ============================================================================ === > pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (CENA) ______ ___ _ (Patrick MOREAU) > moreau_p@decus.fr (DECUS) / / / / /| /| > CENA/Athis-Mons FRANCE / /___/ / / | / | __ __ __ __ > BP 205 / / / / |/ | | | |__| |__ |__| | | > 94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX / / :: / / | |__| | \ |__ | | |__| > http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/ http://www.multimania.com/pmoreau/ > ============================================================================ === ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 13:39:47 -0500 From: "John Smith" Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution Message-ID: John Reagan wrote: > Jeff Goodwin wrote: >> My OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution arrived today. >> >> You'll all be happy to know that the box has a Java Compatible logo >> on it. :) >> >> -Jeff >> >> > > Great, I've been needing a box that is Java Compatible, my old one is > wearing out. :-) Just in Time - my Java box is almost empty (Costa Rican Tirazu - fine grind). ;-) -- OpenVMS - The classics never go out of style. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 12:23:46 -0500 From: "Peter Weaver" Subject: Re: regular expression support on OpenVMS (was Re: grep on openVMS?) Message-ID: <37c554F5bvirtU1@individual.net> Craig A. Berry wrote: >... > /WILDCARD=TRADITIONAL (D) > /WILDCARD=REGEX > > Or, if you prefer, PATTERN instead of WILDCARD. As far as I can see, > there is currently in SEARCH no capability for matching file contents > against patterns of any kind, even traditional VMS wildcards. >... V8.2 has added /WILDCARD_MATCHING to SEARCH. Allowing us to use the * and the % in the search string. -- Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc. Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX www.weaverconsulting.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 09:10:23 -0500 From: Wayne Sewell Subject: Re: SLS dead Message-ID: <00A3F5FD.7AB6F302.2@tachysoft.com> >Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 12:08:03 -0600 >From: David J Dachtera >Reply-To: djesysno@spam.earthlink.net >Organization: DJE Systems >X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms >Subject: Re: SLS dead > >Wayne Sewell wrote: >> >> >From: >> >X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms >> >Subject: SLS dead >> >Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 17:03:34 +0100 >> >X-Priority: 3 >> >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >> >> > >> >From the last OpenVMS roadmap PDF document, dated february 2005 : >> > >> >Storage Library System V2.9J (Q1 2005) will contain support for VMS V7.3-2 >> > >> >and V8.2 on Alpha Only. Subsequent releases will concentrate on remedial >> >fixes and >> > >> >support for new versions of OpenVMS. There will be no support for new tape >> >devices >> > >> >after V2.9H timeframe, and no new features will be introduced. No port to >> >Integrity is >> > >> >planned. >> > >> > >> >This looks like a complete change of directions for this product. And for >> >me, it looks like a disaster, >> >specially the decision to abandon the port. >> > >> >I got this info from the abovementionned PDF document, distributed to me in >> >through an unofficial >> >channel. The info did not appear anywhere else I know. But kindlt asked, >> >H.P. confirmed. How >> >many other customers are impacted but still not aware of it ? >> > >> >A fellow H.P. employee urged me to write my concerns and disagreement >> >directly to Mark Gorham, >> >which I will do. Perhaps other impacted customers should do the same ? >> > >> > >> >Marc Van Dyck. >> > >> >> The TAPESYS port to itanium is in progress. The itanium builds have been done, >> now in the testing stage. >> >> This is the closest functional equivalent to SLS, though it is a third-party >> product. The original SLS actually *was* TAPESYS, taken from a snapshot of an >> much earlier version. The two products have diverged since then, but still >> have many similarities. > >If/when Cerner gets the "warm fuzzies" for whatever Enterprise Class >Itanic machines, looks like I'll be talking to you and your folks at >SP32 for on-going support of our backups using StorageTek libraries, if >SLS on I64 is not to be. (ABS is not usable.) > For you and everyone else currently running SLS, the following from Phil might be pertinent: Software Partners wrote the original SLS, which DEC bought around 1988. Software Partners continued on with the original TAPESYS, and has been in the business of selling, supporting, and enhancing it ever since. It's really all we do, so of course we're going to Itanium with it. In fact, we're developing a program to convert SLS users who want to have the same functionality on Itanium. You can convert to TAPESYS (we'll make it as easy as possible) and gain the new functionality of TAPESYS and lose little if anything in your daily operations. Phil Jamieson Software Partners, Inc. 447 Old Boston Road Topsfield, MA 01983 978.887.6409 x102 PhilJ@SoftwarePartners.com "We Backup VMS" =============================================================================== Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting (281)812-0738 wayne@tachysoft.com http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html =============================================================================== Larry(sniffing):"I smell something awful." Moe:"Yeah, well don't brag about it." ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2005.090 ************************