INFO-VAX Thu, 10 Feb 2005 Volume 2005 : Issue 82 Contents: Customizing file selection dialogue (DECwindows) DIFF /ig=WHITESPACE request fo Guy Peleg Re: DIFF /ig=WHITESPACE request fo Guy Peleg Re: DIFF /ig=WHITESPACE request fo Guy Peleg Re: grep on openVMS? Re: grep on openVMS? Re: grep on openVMS? Re: grep on openVMS? Re: grep on openVMS? Re: grep on openVMS? Re: grep on openVMS? Re: grep on openVMS? RE: grep on openVMS? Re: grep on openVMS? RE: grep on openVMS? Re: HP's Carly Fiorina fired Re: HP's Carly Fiorina fired Re: HP's Carly Fiorina fired Re: HP's Carly Fiorina fired Re: Is $3 million really so much to spend.... Re: Is $3 million really so much to spend.... Re: Is $3 million really so much to spend.... Re: Is $3 million really so much to spend.... Re: Is $3 million really so much to spend.... Re: Is $3 million really so much to spend.... RE: Is $3 million really so much to spend.... OpenVMS V8.2 (online) Communications Seminar Re: OpenVMS V8.2 (online) Communications Seminar Printing problem! SEARCH on a collection of files Re: SEARCH on a collection of files Re: SEARCH on a collection of files Re: SEARCH on a collection of files Re: So how big a parachute did she have? RE: So how big a parachute did she have? Re: So how big a parachute did she have? RE: So how big a parachute did she have? RE: So how big a parachute did she have? RE: So how big a parachute did she have? Re: SSH Problem with TCPIP V5.4? Re: SSH Problem with TCPIP V5.4? Swiftnet banking available for OpenVMS! Re: Swiftnet banking available for OpenVMS! Re: VAX 4000 m500A problem Re: VAX 4000 m500A problem VICTORY !!! Carly fired, new hope for VMS ? Re: VICTORY !!! Carly fired, new hope for VMS ? Re: VICTORY !!! Carly fired, new hope for VMS ? Re: Why aren't more universities doing this? Re: Why aren't more universities doing this? Re: Why aren't more universities doing this? Re: Why aren't more universities doing this? Re: Why aren't more universities doing this? Re: Why aren't more universities doing this? Re: Why aren't more universities doing this? Re: Why aren't more universities doing this? Re: Why aren't more universities doing this? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 04:38:36 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Customizing file selection dialogue (DECwindows) Message-ID: <1108027600.a6ed494a21c70f66f7b56dae4c84c409@teranews> The file selection dialogue contains 2 scrolled selection boxes. One for directories, and one for files within one directory. By default, I am finding that the size and relative sizing/resizing of these is wrong (for instance, not enough space for filenames). And if I grow the window, it is the directory selection box that widens, not the file selection one. I assume all this is inside a form, and all I'd have to do is to attach the file selection box to the right side of the dialogue, so that if you grow the dialogue, it is that box which grows. (and make the directory more fixed in width). Are there tools to take apart the file selection widget so one can know the names of each subwidget inside and thus be able to give those some resources to change their appearance ? (and this would apply generally, it would be helpful to be able to break apart a complex widget into its multiple parts to get names etc). ------------------------------ Date: 10 Feb 2005 07:08:59 GMT From: "Dave Weatherall" Subject: DIFF /ig=WHITESPACE request fo Guy Peleg Message-ID: Guy following on from the discussions about how /ig=space does/should work, could we have a /ig=white_space qualifier? Why? Well, it would avoid the problems/confusion we discussed last time (how tabs are handled) but also consider call a_routine (a,b,c) versus call a_routine(a.b,c) The only difference is the leading space before the '('. Its personal preference and coding style but when I put the space in and diff against the original to ensure I've not broken anything, particularly if a learn-sequence is involved, there's a lot of visual checking that needs doing. The white-space qualifier would remove all spaces, tabs (nulls?), etc before comparing the lines. -- Cheers - Dave W. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 02:44:30 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: DIFF /ig=WHITESPACE request fo Guy Peleg Message-ID: <1108020767.e19076557a755e1e9523097a3e555f7f@teranews> Dave Weatherall wrote: > call a_routine (a,b,c) > versus > call a_routine(a.b,c) > > The only difference is the leading space before the '('. Actually there is also the punctuation between the "a" and "b" arguments :-) Personally, I find DIFF to be of use only when the 2 files are identical. Otherwise, I find myself not really understanding the output. Perhaps because I don't use it often enough. If the files are not identical, I tend to simply edit both of them and compare. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 10:43:14 +0200 From: "Guy Peleg" Subject: Re: DIFF /ig=WHITESPACE request fo Guy Peleg Message-ID: <420b1eb2$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com> "Dave Weatherall" wrote in message news:DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-EoHUH8vDJYHP@dave2_os2.home.ours... > Guy > following on from the discussions about how /ig=space > does/should work, could we have a /ig=white_space qualifier? Why? > Well, it would avoid the problems/confusion we discussed last time > (how tabs are handled) but also consider > > call a_routine (a,b,c) > versus > call a_routine(a.b,c) > > The only difference is the leading space before the '('. Its personal > preference and coding style but when I put the space in and diff > against the original to ensure I've not broken anything, particularly > if a learn-sequence is involved, there's a lot of visual checking that > needs doing. > > The white-space qualifier would remove all spaces, tabs (nulls?), etc > before comparing the lines. > > -- > Cheers - Dave W. Requested noted ! Will be considered for next version (V8.3) Guy ------------------------------ Date: 10 Feb 2005 07:09:01 GMT From: "Dave Weatherall" Subject: Re: grep on openVMS? Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 02:02:24 UTC, Z wrote: > bob@instantwhip.com wrote: > > $ SEARCH > > OpenVMS uses English ... unix uses words that > > first graders don't even understand ... > > *nix grep understands regular expressions, making it much more useful > than $SEARCH. I usually end up in Perl on VMS to get access to regular > expressions. If that's the way your brain works or is required by the task in hand. i.e. the right tool for the job and that means I accept that it can be grep. -- Cheers - Dave W. ------------------------------ Date: 10 Feb 2005 02:49:48 -0800 From: "Slo" Subject: Re: grep on openVMS? Message-ID: <1108032588.714628.96230@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> I have this in my environment defined: $ show symbol grep GREP == "SEARCH SYS$INPUT" that I use when a unix user is sitting next to me. Example: $ pip show system | grep tcpip | grep hib 00000216 TCPIP$INETACP HIB 9 1152 0 00:00:00.14 306 231 0000021D TCPIP$NFS_1 HIB 10 169 0 00:00:00.06 652 186 N 00000220 TCPIP$PWIP_ACP HIB 10 249 0 00:00:00.03 248 187 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 06:28:26 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: grep on openVMS? Message-ID: <1108034180.cd99af65292944e9e6bab5d784b42e8a@teranews> Slo wrote: > $ pip show system | grep tcpip | grep hib > > 00000216 TCPIP$INETACP HIB 9 1152 0 00:00:00.14 306 231 > 0000021D TCPIP$NFS_1 HIB 10 169 0 00:00:00.06 652 186 N > 00000220 TCPIP$PWIP_ACP HIB 10 249 0 00:00:00.03 248 187 BTW, you can do this as: $show system/proc=TCPIP*/state=HIB ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 13:28:05 GMT From: "Anthony Borla" Subject: Re: grep on openVMS? Message-ID: "Z" wrote in message news:BlzOd.42762$365.21827@fe07.lga... > bob@instantwhip.com wrote: > ? > > $ SEARCH > > OpenVMS uses English ... unix uses words that > > first graders don't even understand ... > > *NIX grep understands regular expressions, making it > much more useful than $SEARCH. I usually end up in > Perl on VMS to get access to regular expressions. > All, As to the OP's query, I suspect he only wanted to know the name of the OpenVMS 'file content search facility', thus I would be inclined to believe that responding with SEARCH is the most appropriate answer for these reasons: * It is, after all, the native OpenVMS equivalent of the *NIX 'grep' command [minus regular expression support] * It is in the spirit of encouraging the use of native commands and idioms, something, I would think, the majority of forum members would want to encourage As for regular expression-based matching, I think the consensus is that it is a powerful facility. So much so in fact, that it is one of those concepts [like command piping and I/O redirection] which have transcended their *NIX origins, and have become very widely adopted [1]. Now, rather than being critical of *NIX naming conventions, or forcing users who may wish to benefit from regular expressions into using Perl [surely overkill for smaller, simpler tasks ?], or third-party utility suites like GNV [not guaranteed to be installed on all systems], it might pay to harness that power and integrate it into OpenVMS in as transparent a manner as possible, much the same way as command piping and I/O redirection was integrated with implementation of the PIPE command. The question then becomes: How can the power of regular expressions be combined with the ease-of-use of a native command like SEARCH, and perhaps be made more widely and easily available ? A possible implementation outline: * Introduce a new SEARCH qualifier: SEARCH /REGEX filespec "regular expression" which simply interprets the search string as a regular expression; command behaviour would otherwise remain the same [though issues like how to reconcile it's use with /MATCH will need 'ironing out'] * Implement regular expression code as LIB$ routine(s), say LIB$REGEX and LIB$REGEX_END, that are modelled on the LIB$FIND_FILE and the LIB$FIND_FILE_END routines * Implement new lexical function(s), say, F$REGEX, and F$REGEX_END that use the new LIB$ routines, thus supplying regular expression support at the DCL level The benefit of a new SEARCH qualifier is that it allows the user to choose whether regular expressions will be, or not be, used. And, whether used or not, the command would behave exactly as it does now in terms of the output produced, so maintaining backwards compatibility. And, of course, the benefit of implementing regular expression support at the LIB$ level is that of high performance and standardisation: it becomes a core OpenVMS feature, not a 'tack on'. Anyway, food for thought :) ! Cheers, Anthony Borla [1] By widely adopted I don't just mean that *NIX utilities have been widely ported, but that other operating systems have incorporated these concepts as native facilities or standardised add-ons: - MS DOS, and the Windows-family systems that followed, natively implemented *NIX command piping and I/O redirection, and utilities, like 'findstr' [similar to SEARCH], support regular expressions - IBM mainframes use the 'PIPELINES' system, conceptually based on *NIX command piping - OpenVMS, itself, implements the PIPE command, which implements *NIX command piping and I/O redirection at the DCL level And, despite criticisms of adverse performance, several major operating systems support POSIX subsystems, once again, reflecting the power / importance of *NIX [I certainly haven't heard of VMS or MVS subsystems - have you ?] ------------------------------ Date: 10 Feb 2005 07:29:13 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: grep on openVMS? Message-ID: In article , Michael Clark writes: > Does OpenVMS have anything similar to the grep option on *nix? Most of us search files with SEARCH, which is probably what you're looking for. But if you want regular expressions, go to a gnu site and get their grep: it runs on VMS and it's better than the grep that ships with most UNIX. ------------------------------ Date: 10 Feb 2005 07:30:07 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: grep on openVMS? Message-ID: In article , "Anthony Borla" writes: > "Michael Clark" wrote in message > news:A2A28DB6D52E084783ACD6E6C6F5D7900274FA17@EMAILSERVER2.nemschoff.com... >> >> Does OpenVMS have anything similar to the grep >> option on *nix? >> > > I'd say any operating system that *didn't* offer similar functionality would > be pretty deficient. Windows comes to mind. I think they fixed that eventually, but I use Cygwin so I don't care. ------------------------------ Date: 10 Feb 2005 05:43:24 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.com Subject: Re: grep on openVMS? Message-ID: <1108043004.511487.274490@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Dave Weatherall wrote: > On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 02:02:24 UTC, Z wrote: > > > bob@instantwhip.com wrote: > > > $ SEARCH > > > OpenVMS uses English ... unix uses words that > > > first graders don't even understand ... > > > > *nix grep understands regular expressions, making it much more useful > > than $SEARCH. I usually end up in Perl on VMS to get access to regular > > expressions. > > If that's the way your brain works or is required by the task in hand. > i.e. the right tool for the job and that means I accept that it can be > grep. > > -- > Cheers - Dave W. for first time users it is not the way your brain works! I can sit a new user or programmer down at vms and with little instruction and the help facilities he is productive the first day ... in unix land it is the opposite and is COUNTERPRODUCTIVE! ------------------------------ Date: 10 Feb 2005 05:47:31 -0800 From: "Slo" Subject: Re: grep on openVMS? Message-ID: <1108043251.634074.250880@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Indeed. There is also a striking similarity (for this particular command, of course) -- two pipes vs two switches: | grep tcpip | grep hib /pr=tcp* /st=h* So, in a sense, DCL already implements specific "greps" in many commands: DIR/SINCE, DIR/SIZE, TYPE/BY_OWNER But unlike a unix grep that scans the output, DCL switches work on a particular attribute/object. It's more precise, when you need it. Thus, a SHOW SYSTEM line: 00000226 TCPIP$HIBOB LEF 10 123 0 00:00:00.23 148 667 would be wrongly displayed by a grep approach, but ignored with /STATE=HIB. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 11:14:54 -0600 From: Michael Clark Subject: RE: grep on openVMS? Message-ID: > "Z" wrote in message > news:BlzOd.42762$365.21827@fe07.lga... > > bob@instantwhip.com wrote: > > ? > > > $ SEARCH > > > OpenVMS uses English ... unix uses words that > > > first graders don't even understand ... > > > > *NIX grep understands regular expressions, making it > > much more useful than $SEARCH. I usually end up in > > Perl on VMS to get access to regular expressions. > > > > All, > > As to the OP's query, I suspect he only wanted to know the name of the > OpenVMS 'file content search facility', thus I would be > inclined to believe > that responding with SEARCH is the most appropriate answer for these > reasons: Thank you Anthony =) I am reading the help for this command and it seems to me that I can only use this if the information I want is contained in a file unless sys$input is declared? I made a grep symbol as someone else suggested so Ill have less problems remembering ALPHA1::[MICCLA]>show symbol grep GREP == "SEARCH SYS$INPUT" show device dkb1/files/nosys | grep 00004c6c did nothing for me. So I ended up doing show device dkb1/files/nosys/out=ps.pid So, what am I doing wrong? =( > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This electronic transmission, including all attachments, is directed in confidence solely to the person(s) to whom it is addressed, or an authorized recipient, and may not otherwise be distributed, copied or disclosed. The contents of the transmission may also be subject to intellectual property rights and all such rights are expressly claimed and are not waived. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by return electronic transmission and then immediately delete this transmission, including all attachments, without copying, distributing or disclosing same. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 18:29:49 +0100 From: Wilm Boerhout Subject: Re: grep on openVMS? Message-ID: <420b9a0d$0$20656$ba620dc5@nova.planet.nl> Try $ pipe show devi dkb1:/files /nosys | search sys$pipe myfile > > ALPHA1::[MICCLA]>show symbol grep > GREP == "SEARCH SYS$INPUT" > > show device dkb1/files/nosys | grep 00004c6c did nothing for me. > > So I ended up doing > > show device dkb1/files/nosys/out=ps.pid > > So, what am I doing wrong? =( > -- Wilm Boerhout Zwolle, The Netherlands wilmOLD@PAINTboerhout.nl (remove OLD PAINT from this address before use) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 11:53:22 -0600 From: Michael Clark Subject: RE: grep on openVMS? Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Wilm Boerhout [mailto:wOLD.boerhout@PAINTplanet.nl] > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 11:30 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: grep on openVMS? > > > Try > > $ pipe show devi dkb1:/files /nosys | search sys$pipe myfile Great! Thank you! > > > > > ALPHA1::[MICCLA]>show symbol grep > > GREP == "SEARCH SYS$INPUT" > > > > show device dkb1/files/nosys | grep 00004c6c did nothing for me. > > > > So I ended up doing > > > > show device dkb1/files/nosys/out=ps.pid > > > > So, what am I doing wrong? =( > > > > > -- > Wilm Boerhout > Zwolle, The Netherlands > > wilmOLD@PAINTboerhout.nl > (remove OLD PAINT from this address before use) > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This electronic transmission, including all attachments, is directed in confidence solely to the person(s) to whom it is addressed, or an authorized recipient, and may not otherwise be distributed, copied or disclosed. The contents of the transmission may also be subject to intellectual property rights and all such rights are expressly claimed and are not waived. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by return electronic transmission and then immediately delete this transmission, including all attachments, without copying, distributing or disclosing same. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 02:46:24 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: HP's Carly Fiorina fired Message-ID: <1108020878.a794ceec95951d6a0d1ae9fd998c8609@teranews> I found another article on openvms.org where it was stated that Curly was in fact a frontrunner as replacement for Carly. Yikes. You got to give it to Curly though, from a career point of view, he's done well for an accountant. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 10:06:20 +0100 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: HP's Carly Fiorina fired Message-ID: <420B240C.99BBF7AE@aaa.com> Dave Froble wrote: > > VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > > In article <1107956773.361962.281300@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, "Mark Round" writes: > > > >>"ding dong, the witch is dead...." > > > > > > ...making room for Bob Palmer to assume the helm! > > > > God help us. > > Even He wouldn't be enough help for that! Or She, or It, or whatever... Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: 10 Feb 2005 08:40:55 -0800 From: greigaln@netscape.net Subject: Re: HP's Carly Fiorina fired Message-ID: <1108053655.884093.227060@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Colin Butcher wrote: > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=21175 > According to today's "Times" (UK) she gets a $21 million dollar payoff. Amazing... Two page article in Thursday edition. Should be available online at www.thetimes.co.uk -- Alan Greig ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 16:27:12 +0100 From: Michael Unger Subject: Re: HP's Carly Fiorina fired Message-ID: <371ioqF56d43mU1@individual.net> On 2005-02-10 11:00, "Didier MORANDI" wrote: > Colin Butcher wrote: > >> http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=21175 > > May I suggest Terry Shannon for President & CEO, [...] ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ He seems to be rather biased with respect to Itanic ... Michael -- Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 13:01:38 +0000 From: Roy Omond Subject: Re: Is $3 million really so much to spend.... Message-ID: <3714duF578d3uU1@individual.net> Rob Young wrote: > In article , > "Kenneth Farmer" writes: > >>How may people watch the Superbowl? 60 million? > > http://www.superbowl.com/features/general_info > > Super Bowl XXXVIII TV audience: Last year's game was the most watched program > ever with 144.4 million viewers. The 10 most-watched programs in TV history are > all Super Bowls. I simply don't believe that "10 most-watched programs in TV history". Don't have the figures to hand, but I'd bet many, many, many more watch(ed) the World Cup Final (Football), and possibly even the European Championship Final. Or is this yet another case of you meaning the USofA instead of the world ? Wouldn't surprise me ... *Sigh* ... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 14:17:23 +0100 From: "Dr. Dweeb" <5msg0h202@sneakemail.com> Subject: Re: Is $3 million really so much to spend.... Message-ID: "Rob Young" wrote in message news:CH8GALwRFmBF@eisner.encompasserve.org... > In article , "Kenneth Farmer" writes: > > > > > How may people watch the Superbowl? 60 million? > > http://www.superbowl.com/features/general_info > > Super Bowl XXXVIII TV audience: Last year's game was the most watched program > ever with 144.4 million viewers. The 10 most-watched programs in TV history are > all Super Bowls. USA != World I wonder how many viewers outside the US it attracts ? Dr. Dweeb ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 14:22:02 +0100 From: "Dr. Dweeb" <5msg0h202@sneakemail.com> Subject: Re: Is $3 million really so much to spend.... Message-ID: "JF Mezei" wrote in message news:1107900943.d73d7070edfa26766a6b7f571026c780@teranews... > DeanW wrote: > > Then, I have to ask: If that media doesn't work, why do IBM et al > > continue to use it? > > In the book from Gerstner (Whow says elephants can't dance?), he makes > it quite clear that the TV advertising was key to IBM's revival in the > 1993-1994 timeframe, and again key to get IBM back into a leadership > position with its "e-business" keyword later in the 1990s. (The first > campaign had the keyword" Global" in it.). Actually I really liked the ad where the MBA kid with his feet up reading (IIRC) the WSJ says to his boss something to the effect that the company needed/had to be on the internet. The boss looks puzzled and says "Why". I was the e-business solutions campaign I think. I thought it highly effective because it was the one question non-one seemed to be asking during the rise of the internet as a business tool. Dr. Dweeb ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 13:35:07 -0000 From: "Richard Brodie" Subject: Re: Is $3 million really so much to spend.... Message-ID: "Roy Omond" wrote in message news:3714duF578d3uU1@individual.net... > I simply don't believe that "10 most-watched programs in TV history". > > Don't have the figures to hand, but I'd bet many, many, many more > watch(ed) the World Cup Final (Football), and possibly even the > European Championship Final. Yes, the last World Cup averaged over 300 million, and got 1 billion+ viewers for the final, according to FIFA. On different channels, of course, so it depends how you define program I guess. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 13:53:47 +0000 From: Roy Omond Subject: Re: Is $3 million really so much to spend.... Message-ID: <3717fnF58dv2gU1@individual.net> Richard Brodie wrote: > "Roy Omond" wrote in message > news:3714duF578d3uU1@individual.net... > >>I simply don't believe that "10 most-watched programs in TV history". >> >>Don't have the figures to hand, but I'd bet many, many, many more >>watch(ed) the World Cup Final (Football), and possibly even the >>European Championship Final. > > Yes, the last World Cup averaged over 300 million, and got 1 billion+ > viewers for the final, according to FIFA. On different channels, > of course, so it depends how you define program I guess. Apologies for the followup to a followup to my message. Thanks Richard. It really, really makes me want to puke when I see something so USofA-centric as the original claim re the "10 most-watched programs in TV history". Constantly reminds me of one those (probably urban myth) statistics about how 75% of respondents in a USofA'an survey were of the opinion that more than half the world's population live in the USofA. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 15:12:20 GMT From: "Kenneth Farmer" Subject: Re: Is $3 million really so much to spend.... Message-ID: "Richard Brodie" wrote in message news:cufnuc$mfd$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk... > > "Roy Omond" wrote in message > news:3714duF578d3uU1@individual.net... > >> I simply don't believe that "10 most-watched programs in TV history". >> >> Don't have the figures to hand, but I'd bet many, many, many more >> watch(ed) the World Cup Final (Football), and possibly even the >> European Championship Final. > > Yes, the last World Cup averaged over 300 million, and got 1 billion+ > viewers for the final, according to FIFA. On different channels, > of course, so it depends how you define program I guess. OK, so the World Cup would be another great opportunity to get the word out. Once again, targeting the people that need a solution, are in deep trouble with their current solution, etc. Plus you'd be getting the word out to millions that VMS is still around, kicking and strong. Ken OpenVMS.org _____________________________________ Kenneth R. Farmer <>< SpyderByte: http://www.SpyderByte.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 10:45:33 -0500 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Is $3 million really so much to spend.... Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Roy Omond [mailto:Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com]=20 > Sent: February 10, 2005 8:54 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Is $3 million really so much to spend.... >=20 > Richard Brodie wrote: >=20 > > "Roy Omond" wrote in message > > news:3714duF578d3uU1@individual.net... > > > >>I simply don't believe that "10 most-watched programs in TV=20 > history". > >> > >>Don't have the figures to hand, but I'd bet many, many, many more > >>watch(ed) the World Cup Final (Football), and possibly even the > >>European Championship Final. > > > > Yes, the last World Cup averaged over 300 million, and got=20 > 1 billion+ > > viewers for the final, according to FIFA. On different channels, > > of course, so it depends how you define program I guess. >=20 > Apologies for the followup to a followup to my message. >=20 > Thanks Richard. It really, really makes me want to puke > when I see something so USofA-centric as the original > claim re the "10 most-watched programs in TV history". >=20 > Constantly reminds me of one those (probably urban myth) > statistics about how 75% of respondents in a USofA'an > survey were of the opinion that more than half the world's > population live in the USofA. >=20 Fwiw, this kind of reminds of when the Toronto Blue Jays were about to go into the World Series and one of the commentators said "Hey - this is the first international World Series .. Isn't that interesting!" I rather suspect that the humour of that was lost on the viewers residing in the USA .. :-) Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20 "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 13:28:49 +0100 From: Keith Cayemberg Subject: OpenVMS V8.2 (online) Communications Seminar Message-ID: <420b5381$0$18550$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net> For those who don't check the OpenVMS "What's New " Page every day... http://h71000.www7.hp.com/new/index.html http://h71000.www7.hp.com/training/82seminar/index.html *OpenVMS V8.2 Communications Seminar* This is a multi-module seminar consisting of presentations by various OpenVMS business and engineering personnel. The presentations discuss V8.2 new features and changes along several disciplines. The modules in this seminar are: _Module Title_ Module 1 » Introduction and the Operating Environments Module 2 » Trade-in Programs Module 3 » Documentation Offerings Module 4 » Pre-Sales Technical Support Module 5 » Marketing Strategy Module 6 » OpenVMS V8.2 New Features Module 7 » License Management (LMF) Module 8 » OpenVMS V8.2 Hardware and Cluster Configurations Module 9 » Wrap-up and Rollout of the operating environments and layered products The presentations were taped in the Fall of 2004. Cheers! Keith Cayemberg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 16:07:07 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: OpenVMS V8.2 (online) Communications Seminar Message-ID: <00A3F2E9.1FCCDF94@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article <420b5381$0$18550$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>, Keith Cayemberg writes: >For those who don't check the OpenVMS "What's New " Page every day... > >http://h71000.www7.hp.com/new/index.html >http://h71000.www7.hp.com/training/82seminar/index.html > >*OpenVMS V8.2 Communications Seminar* > >This is a multi-module seminar consisting of presentations by various >OpenVMS business and engineering personnel. The presentations discuss >V8.2 new features and changes along several disciplines. > >The modules in this seminar are: > > _Module Title_ >Module 1 » Introduction and the Operating Environments >Module 2 » Trade-in Programs >Module 3 » Documentation Offerings >Module 4 » Pre-Sales Technical Support >Module 5 » Marketing Strategy >Module 6 » OpenVMS V8.2 New Features >Module 7 » License Management (LMF) >Module 8 » OpenVMS V8.2 Hardware and Cluster Configurations >Module 9 » Wrap-up and Rollout of the operating environments > and layered products > >The presentations were taped in the Fall of 2004. > >Cheers! > >Keith Cayemberg I'd like a module on how to obtain a rack mount kit and bezel. ;) I know... it's beating a dead horse with a stick but at least it's putting a dead horse and a stick to some use. I wish I could say the same about my rx2600. -- http://www.ProvN.com for the *best* OpenVMS system security solutions that others only claim to be. -- Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.: The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software product! -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ------------------------------ Date: 9 Feb 2005 23:46:42 -0800 From: domen.setar@izum.si (domen) Subject: Printing problem! Message-ID: Hi Admins! I have a problem with printing from OpenVMS. My environment is: OpenVMS 7.3-2 Hp LaserJet 4M+ Emulex NetQue I have LPD queue on my Alpha server. When printing, the last page doesn't come out from the printer. I'm using qualifier /separate=reset=reset in my queue. The reset sequence in my module is as follows: ]VMS;2\PE&l0O*c0F\ I tried with different print servers NetQue, NetJet, Troy-2933S. It works only with NetJet print queue, which is integrated with printer. LAT queue in the same environment works fine. Can anyone tell me the secret of this behaviour? Best regards Domen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 09:00:56 -0800 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: SEARCH on a collection of files Message-ID: If you are searching a collection of files specified with wild card, how do you expose the file name when a match occurs? For example pipe anal/image sys$library:*.EXE | sear sys$pipe fort does prepend the filename when a match occurs -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 17:59:19 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: SEARCH on a collection of files Message-ID: <00A3F2F8.CC382B20@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article , "Tom Linden" writes: >If you are searching a collection of files specified with >wild card, how do you expose the file name when a match occurs? > >For example >pipe anal/image sys$library:*.EXE | sear sys$pipe fort > >does prepend the filename when a match occurs >-- >Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ If you're only looking for files, won't this do:? $ SEARCH/WINDOW=0 SYS$LIBRARY:*.EXE fort -- http://www.ProvN.com for the *best* OpenVMS system security solutions that others only claim to be. -- Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.: The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software product! -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ------------------------------ Date: 10 Feb 2005 12:02:27 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: SEARCH on a collection of files Message-ID: In article , "Tom Linden" writes: > If you are searching a collection of files specified with > wild card, how do you expose the file name when a match occurs? > > For example > pipe anal/image sys$library:*.EXE | sear sys$pipe fort > > does prepend the filename when a match occurs The best way to do this is write a loop which tests the $status of search. You get different $status for file not found, match found, and no match found; the first of which won't apply to sys$pipe. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 13:22:51 -0500 From: "Hein" Subject: Re: SEARCH on a collection of files Message-ID: <420ba68c$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com> "Tom Linden" wrote in message news:opslzqvuvjzgicya@hyrrokkin... > If you are searching a collection of files specified with > wild card, how do you expose the file name when a match occurs? > > For example > pipe anal/image sys$library:*.EXE | sear sys$pipe fort > > does prepend the filename when a match occurs $ pipe anal/imag sys$library:*FO*.EXE | perl -ne "$f=$1 if /^\S+\](\S+;\d+)/; print ""$f : $. : $_"" if /7f798/i" gives: DEC$FORRTL.EXE;2 : 1583 : %X'00000000 0007F798' FOR$DEC$FORRTL.EXE;1 : 5671 : %X'00000000 0007F798' translation: $f=$1 if /^\S+\](\S+;\d+)/ variable $f become 'remembered' value is match occurs. Match for: ^ = start of line \S+ = followed by some non-whitespace (device + directory) \] = followed by an (escaped) closing box ( = strart remembering \S+ = a bunch of non-whitespace (file + ext) ;\d+ = a semicolon followed by some numbers (version) ) = stop remembering print $f = remembered file name $. = line number $_ = current line /match-string/ i = ignore-case. hth, Hein. ------------------------------ Date: 10 Feb 2005 07:31:52 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: So how big a parachute did she have? Message-ID: In article <1107991887.590340.274150@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "mas" writes: > $21 million. Made for the rest of her life. > > Even she would have trouble spending that on hairdos and such ;-). Now she can affor to work for the government. Maybe Bush will ask her to work on the US-Canadian merger those up north have feared for so long. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 10:50:57 -0500 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: So how big a parachute did she have? Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Koehler [mailto:koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org]=20 > Sent: February 10, 2005 8:32 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: So how big a parachute did she have? >=20 > In article=20 > <1107991887.590340.274150@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,=20 > "mas" writes: > > $21 million. Made for the rest of her life. > >=20 > > Even she would have trouble spending that on hairdos and such ;-). >=20 > Now she can affor to work for the government. Maybe Bush will > ask her to work on the US-Canadian merger those up north=20 > have feared > for so long. >=20 Bob, Its all part of our plan to make the US the 11th province of Canada. Course, teaching Texans to speak French might be a tad difficult, but I am sure they will see the value in this vision. :-) Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20 "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 11:48:55 -0500 From: "John Smith" Subject: Re: So how big a parachute did she have? Message-ID: <4uydneYUoLXrDZbfRVn-gg@igs.net> Bob Koehler wrote: > In article <1107991887.590340.274150@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, > "mas" writes: >> $21 million. Made for the rest of her life. >> >> Even she would have trouble spending that on hairdos and such ;-). > > Now she can affor to work for the government. Maybe Bush will > ask her to work on the US-Canadian merger those up north have > feared for so long. You'd wind up with responsible government that doesn't go around the world thumping people because it can't get its geopolitics right. Your military bill would be about $100B annually instead of $416B. You'd have affordable medical care for all. You'd have the ability to chose your own doctors rather than having an HMO decide which doctor you can see and whether you can have a necessary test. And you wouldn't have to worry about losing your health insurance if you had a heart attack. A fully funded social security system, and every child would be vaccinated. (You know what they say - a billion here, a billion there - pretty soon you're talking real money) Abortion is legal. If you're gay, you can get married, and if you like to light up and listen to reggae you aren't looking at 5-10 with a rapist as a cell-mate. Of course you won't get the US 'farm vehicle' tax credit for Hummer H2's that anyone can get simply because the H2 is > 6000 lbs. gross - the credit is $40,000, which means for somebody at 50% marginal tax the H2 winds up costing about $32k out-of-pocket vs, $52k or so sticker. And there is no such thing as a 'right to carry' and you need a criminal background check for every gun purchase. Your chances of getting murdered, robbed, or otherwise victimized is about 90% lower on a per capital basis. Your kids, on average, would rank much better in the world in literacy and math. Colour and neighbour would have the correct spelling. You'd learn to love Tim Horton's and hot tea with milk. Oh the horrors of a tolerant society. :-) But I digress.... I wonder if she cut a deal to continue using the Gulfstream G-V to go on job interviews? -- OpenVMS - The classics never go out of style. ------------------------------ Date: 10 Feb 2005 10:56:14 -0600 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: RE: So how big a parachute did she have? Message-ID: <7LMF1nBi$y3W@eisner.encompasserve.org> Some people have suggested that HP could have acquired Compaq but omitted the parts that do PC stuff. In article , "Main, Kerry" writes: > Its all part of our plan to make the US the 11th province of Canada. > Course, teaching Texans to speak French might be a tad difficult, but I > am sure they will see the value in this vision. You could skip Texas -- perhaps Mexico would want it. ------------------------------ Date: 10 Feb 2005 11:56:25 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: RE: So how big a parachute did she have? Message-ID: <1Y787Ny45YXI@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article , "Main, Kerry" writes: > > Bob, > > Its all part of our plan to make the US the 11th province of Canada. > Course, teaching Texans to speak French might be a tad difficult, but I > am sure they will see the value in this vision. > How do you spell nucular in French? ------------------------------ Date: 10 Feb 2005 11:57:30 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: RE: So how big a parachute did she have? Message-ID: In article <7LMF1nBi$y3W@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: > You could skip Texas -- perhaps Mexico would want it. Didn't enough Mexicans die trying to keep Texas the first two times? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 18:26:53 +0000 (UTC) From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: SSH Problem with TCPIP V5.4? Message-ID: In article <1107896814.873330.6670@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, mcbill20@yahoo.com writes: >I recently upgraded TCPIP 5.4 (no ECO) from 5.3. After upgrading, I >enabled SSH. I then downloaded PUTTY in order to do a quick test. I was >able to successfully login using PUTTY, although I noticed occasional >console messages about problems deleting TCPIP$SSH_RUN.LOG. I recommend ECO4 (at least). Consider TCPIP V5.5 also. SSH is improved there. >At the time, it wasn't a high priority so I didn't worry too much about >it. Unfortunately, my console is an LA120 and when I came in to the >computer room today I found that a half box of paper had been printed >with messages from SSH. Apparently machines in France, Poland and >Australia (according to NSLOOKUP) had been trying to get in using SSH. >As for the breakin part, I am not too concerned as my machine is very >well locked down and only local access is enabled for any privileged >accounts. Yup. My SSH is currently open, too, and every access attempt is logged. The initiators obviously use a tool because I usually get umpteen (57 ?) connect requests within a few seconds. >However, I was hoping to be able to leave SSH accessible from the >outside for when I need to login and look up something or do simple >admin. The intrusion problem is frustrating enough, but I would really >like to know what the problem is with SSH. This machine is running VMS >7.3-1 (all latest patches) and TCPIP 5.4 (no ECO's). I do not see a problem at all. If you have a problem with the paper, then don't print. >Each time the remote machine would try to log in I would get a security >message but it would then be followed by multiple file access conflict >messages regarding the deletion of TCPIP$SSH_RUN.LOG (multiple >versions). > >I looked through this group but didn't find anything on this. DOes >anyone know if this is a known problem? No problem. There is a PURGE in TCPIP$SSH_RUN.COM which tries to reduce the logfiles, which some may still be open, because of the massive connect requests. But no real problem. You could increase the /KEEP value by say 2-3 >I wanted to include samples, but apparently (maybe for security >reasons) most of the output that goes to the console does not go into >the operator log. All I see in the operator log is: Usually, there should be more in OPERATOR.LOG than on OPA0: Especially, when OPA0 is still on paper. eg. OPA0: is for problems when the system disk is no longer there (or for pagefile space critical and similar) Please rethink your logging strategy. eg. There is also the SECURITY AUDIT file. -- Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER Network and OpenVMS system specialist E-mail peter@langstoeger.at A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 18:32:31 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: SSH Problem with TCPIP V5.4? Message-ID: <00A3F2FD.6F648B6B@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article , peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes: >In article <1107896814.873330.6670@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, mcbill20@yahoo.com writes: >>I recently upgraded TCPIP 5.4 (no ECO) from 5.3. After upgrading, I >>enabled SSH. I then downloaded PUTTY in order to do a quick test. I was >>able to successfully login using PUTTY, although I noticed occasional >>console messages about problems deleting TCPIP$SSH_RUN.LOG. > >I recommend ECO4 (at least). Consider TCPIP V5.5 also. SSH is improved there. Does TCPIP V5.5 SSH support -X yet? -- http://www.ProvN.com for the *best* OpenVMS system security solutions that others only claim to be. -- Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.: The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software product! -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ------------------------------ Date: 10 Feb 2005 10:06:01 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.com Subject: Swiftnet banking available for OpenVMS! Message-ID: <1108058761.548394.35500@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> looks like swift is back for vms! http://www.sterlingcommerce.com/solutions/connectdirect/openvms/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 13:14:25 -0500 From: "John Smith" Subject: Re: Swiftnet banking available for OpenVMS! Message-ID: bob@instantwhip.com wrote: > looks like swift is back for vms! > > http://www.sterlingcommerce.com/solutions/connectdirect/openvms/index.html Doesn't handle ISO 15022 or SwiftML, which are the holy grail in my world, except as a file transfer package, which is effectively useless. There's no mechanism for dealing with message control structures, BIC's, and other necessary information. Most users of Swift (in my world view) are message passing, not file transfering. -- OpenVMS - The classics never go out of style. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 09:19:17 -0000 From: "Graham Reid" Subject: Re: VAX 4000 m500A problem Message-ID: "CBFalconer" wrote in message news:420A2D2C.50B9F67D@yahoo.com... > Howard Shubs wrote: > > Jay Maynard wrote: > For a couple of years I had ETHELRED. He was the machine I was > developing, and he was unready. > Quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethelred_the_Unready : "...His nickname "The Unready" does not mean that he was ill-prepared, but derives from the Anglo-Saxon unræd meaning without counsel. This is also a pun on his name, Æþelræd, which means "Well advised"." Who advises/counsels (programs?) your machine? ;) Regards, Graham ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 05 12:33:02 GMT From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Subject: Re: VAX 4000 m500A problem Message-ID: <-YCdnSQzb4pVwpbfRVn-sg@rcn.net> In article , Howard Shubs wrote: >In article , jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > >> Why don't you wait until you get everything you need? Then >> pick the word you used the most often. > >I should name a VAX "THE"? > That's not the most common adjective I used. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 10:50:47 +0100 From: Didier MORANDI Subject: VICTORY !!! Carly fired, new hope for VMS ? Message-ID: <420b2e79$1_3@news.bluewin.ch> Well, as usual, the question is in the subject. D. Didier MORANDI - OpenVMS expert and SAP CRM Specialist 13 chemin du Gué - 1213 Petit-Lancy (GE) Switzerland Tel.: +4179 8199735 - www.didiermorandi.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 05:11:27 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: VICTORY !!! Carly fired, new hope for VMS ? Message-ID: <1108029567.2b2243cbc5a28fd0d998c654490fd38a@teranews> Didier MORANDI wrote: > > Well, as usual, the question is in the subject. There are plenty of articles written. go to http://www.openvms.org for a good list. The scary part of that they are supposedly seriously considering hiring Michael Capellas to replace Carly. ------------------------------ Date: 10 Feb 2005 05:47:28 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.com Subject: Re: VICTORY !!! Carly fired, new hope for VMS ? Message-ID: <1108043248.023890.47430@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> I emailed Carly alot and she actually replied to several of my emails, and she actually knew what vms was and at least supported it ... if cappelas or some other brain dead ceo gets in then it could get worse and then we all will be hoping some else buys it ... ------------------------------ Date: 10 Feb 2005 05:51:25 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.com Subject: Re: Why aren't more universities doing this? Message-ID: <1108043485.877039.264710@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> well why don't you teach your students PL/1? It is an easy language to learn ... same for COBOL ... why are you teaching them c garbage and creating more problems for us in the IT world? :) ------------------------------ Date: 10 Feb 2005 14:23:45 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Why aren't more universities doing this? Message-ID: <37193hF55rf2vU1@individual.net> In article <1108043485.877039.264710@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, bob@instantwhip.com writes: > well why don't you teach your students PL/1? It is an easy language > to learn ... same for COBOL ... why are you teaching them c garbage > and creating more problems for us in the IT world? :) Bob, are you really that much of an idiot. I never said anything about teaching students C. As a matter of fact, we don't have any course that teaches any language as it's primary concern. Language is unimportant. What is important and what we teach are programming concepts. Over their entire course of studies students are exposed to a number of languages and in their upper level work they are encouraged to choose the langauage that best suits the project and their abilities. As for PL/1, it is not readily available on the majority of machines the students work with so they are very unlikely to become familiar enough with it to actually use it. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 06:42:59 -0800 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Why aren't more universities doing this? Message-ID: On 10 Feb 2005 14:23:45 GMT, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > As for PL/1, it is not readily available on the majority of machines > the students work with so they are very unlikely to become familiar > enough with it to actually use it. It is available on Windows, AIX, Solaris, HP-UX, Linux/x86, Tru64 and VMS, The Windows version from IBM is about $180, Don't know what Liant charges, Tru64 and VMS are free to you. ------------------------------ Date: 10 Feb 2005 15:58:21 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Why aren't more universities doing this? Message-ID: <371ektF557m91U1@individual.net> In article , "Tom Linden" writes: > On 10 Feb 2005 14:23:45 GMT, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > >> As for PL/1, it is not readily available on the majority of machines >> the students work with so they are very unlikely to become familiar >> enough with it to actually use it. > > It is available on Windows, AIX, Solaris, HP-UX, Linux/x86, Tru64 and VMS, > The Windows version from IBM is about $180, That works out to about $5000 for one lab. Add onto that another $3000 for faculty machines. And what exactly do I use to justify that kind of spending? I barely have enough budget to keep up to date with the hard and software we have to run. Contrary to popular belief, with the exception of the MIT's, CMU's and UCB's, universities are not overflowing with money. > Don't know what Liant charges, I don't either, but it wouldn't much matter as it is bound to be more than I can justify. > Tru64 and VMS are free to you. I will probably take you up on this when I get my "new" VAXen up and running. But I really expect there will be little use unless I decide to get nostalgic and write something myself. :-) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 08:18:46 -0800 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Why aren't more universities doing this? Message-ID: On 10 Feb 2005 15:58:21 GMT, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > In article , > "Tom Linden" writes: >> On 10 Feb 2005 14:23:45 GMT, Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> >>> As for PL/1, it is not readily available on the majority of machines >>> the students work with so they are very unlikely to become familiar >>> enough with it to actually use it. >> >> It is available on Windows, AIX, Solaris, HP-UX, Linux/x86, Tru64 and >> VMS, >> The Windows version from IBM is about $180, > > That works out to about $5000 for one lab. Add onto that another > $3000 for faculty machines. And what exactly do I use to justify > that kind of spending? I barely have enough budget to keep up to > date with the hard and software we have to run. Contrary to popular > belief, with the exception of the MIT's, CMU's and UCB's, universities > are not overflowing with money. You could send an email to Peter Elderon lastname at US dot IBM dot COM and ask him for free copies, tell him you are getting them free from me:-) > >> Don't know what Liant >> charges, > > I don't either, but it wouldn't much matter as it is bound to be more > than I can justify. > >> Tru64 and VMS are free to you. > > I will probably take you up on this when I get my "new" VAXen up and > running. But I really expect there will be little use unless I decide > to get nostalgic and write something myself. :-) At the bottom of the following page are a number of sources you can download. calendar.pli would be a great pedagogic example. You would have to do some editing, since it uses fixed binary(71), and guess when that was written! http://multicians.planetmirror.com/sitemap.html > > bill > -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 16:29:34 +0000 (UTC) From: m.kraemer@gsi.de (Michael Kraemer) Subject: Re: Why aren't more universities doing this? Message-ID: In article , "Tom Linden" writes: > > At the bottom of the following page are a number of sources you can > download. > calendar.pli would be a great pedagogic example. You would have to do some > editing, since it uses fixed binary(71), Obviously times they are a changing. All I can remember is bin fixed(15) and bin fixed(31). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 08:37:16 -0800 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Why aren't more universities doing this? Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 16:29:34 +0000 (UTC), Michael Kraemer wrote: > In article , "Tom Linden" > writes: >> >> At the bottom of the following page are a number of sources you can >> download. >> calendar.pli would be a great pedagogic example. You would have to do >> some >> editing, since it uses fixed binary(71), > > Obviously times they are a changing. All I can remember is > bin fixed(15) and bin fixed(31). Maybe you are not old enough:-) Multics was a 36 bit machine but also supported 72 bit integers. The integer types were fixed bin(17) fixed bin(35) and fixed bin(71) -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 16:59:54 +0000 (UTC) From: m.kraemer@gsi.de (Michael Kraemer) Subject: Re: Why aren't more universities doing this? Message-ID: In article , "Tom Linden" writes: > On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 16:29:34 +0000 (UTC), Michael Kraemer > wrote: > > > In article , "Tom Linden" > > writes: > >> editing, since it uses fixed binary(71), > > > > Obviously times they are a changing. All I can remember is > > bin fixed(15) and bin fixed(31). > > Maybe you are not old enough:-) Multics was a 36 bit machine but > also supported 72 bit integers. The integer types were fixed bin(17) > fixed bin(35) and fixed bin(71) I see. And I thought now that we have 64-bit computing everywhere ( bin fixed(63) ) the next big thing would be 9 bytes in 72-bits ( bin fixed(71) ) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 11:52:11 -0500 From: "John Smith" Subject: Re: Why aren't more universities doing this? Message-ID: Bill Gunshannon wrote: > In article , > "Tom Linden" writes: >> On 10 Feb 2005 14:23:45 GMT, Bill Gunshannon >> wrote: >> >>> As for PL/1, it is not readily available on the majority of machines >>> the students work with so they are very unlikely to become familiar >>> enough with it to actually use it. >> >> It is available on Windows, AIX, Solaris, HP-UX, Linux/x86, Tru64 >> and VMS, The Windows version from IBM is about $180, > > That works out to about $5000 for one lab. Add onto that another > $3000 for faculty machines. And what exactly do I use to justify > that kind of spending? I barely have enough budget to keep up to > date with the hard and software we have to run. Contrary to popular > belief, with the exception of the MIT's, CMU's and UCB's, universities > are not overflowing with money. > >> Don't know what Liant >> charges, > > I don't either, but it wouldn't much matter as it is bound to be more > than I can justify. Kermit's PC VT emulation to the VAX is all you'd need....correct, Tom? -- OpenVMS - The classics never go out of style. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2005.082 ************************