INFO-VAX Sun, 06 Feb 2005 Volume 2005 : Issue 74 Contents: Re: Curly soon to be out of a job Re: Curly soon to be out of a job Re: Curly soon to be out of a job Re: Curly soon to be out of a job Re: Curly soon to be out of a job Re: Curly soon to be out of a job Re: DE500, Decnet, VMS 6.2 on Alpha 800 Re: DVE and maximum file count Re: Need an IDE for C++ (CXX) on OpenVMS Re: Need an IDE for C++ (CXX) on OpenVMS Re: Need an IDE for C++ (CXX) on OpenVMS Re: php.ini options in MOD_PHP Re: REBOOT or SHUTDOWN, how to tell in SYSSHUTDWN.COM Zip 3.0 v. ODS5: Preferences for case preservation? Re: Zip 3.0 v. ODS5: Preferences for case preservation? Re: Zip 3.0 v. ODS5: Preferences for case preservation? Re: Zip 3.0 v. ODS5: Preferences for case preservation? [ANN] Lucane for OpenVMS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 10:59:00 GMT From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing) Subject: Re: Curly soon to be out of a job Message-ID: <00A3EF80.45513697@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> In article , Bill Todd writes: >Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote: > >... > >> I think the problem isn't jokes about Carly's competence, so much. You >> wouldn't care about Carly's hairstyle if you thought she was a good CEO, so >> it seems like cracks about her hairstyle aren't really earned. >> >> I hold no brief for Carly's competence, or for her participation in the >> discussion of the traditional HP Way. I think it's absolutely fine to slam Aargh, by the way. My brain said "dissection" and I see my fingers typed "discussion." >> her for her job performance. But I think I detect a strain of misogyny in >> some of the comments about her that makes me kind of nervous, as though the >> problem weren't that she's a bad CEO but that she's a woman trying to be a >> CEO. I'm not completely sure that's what's going on, which is why I haven't >> spoken up before. But it looks a little suspicious. >> >> (I've seen this stuff from you and sometimes from "John Smith." Without doing >> a literature review, I don't recall Bill Todd saying anything misogynist in a >> considerable volume of ranking on Carly.) > >Well, since you brought me into it... (I hope I didn't give the impression of claiming you agreed with me; I was using your example to show that I didn't think beating up on Carly was _inherently_ misogynistic, just as I don't think beating up on Condoleeza Rice is inherently racist or misogynistic.) > >Though I was not entirely comfortable with John's comment, I could >imagine having said something similar myself if in the proper frame of mind. > >It would have been because I suspect Carly of having largely gotten a >free ride because of her sex: national public exposure as Fortune's >'most influential businesswoman' (or whatever she was until getting >dethroned recently), plus considerable slack from people who either felt >that a woman deserved some or were loath to risk being considered male >chauvinists if they subjected her to the kind of criticism she deserved. > >Now, *some* such consideration may in other cases be reasonable as >compensation for the very real additional hurdles which a woman must >still clear in order to reach the top. But once she's gotten there I >don't see them as being appropriate any more: CEOs should be judged on >their performance, and hers has been execrable while receiving nothing >like the examination it deserves. No argument so far. >And to all appearances she has no reluctance to take advantage of such >unearned forbearance. Now, one could argue that using any and all >advantages is her *obligation* as a CEO, and I'd find such an argument >at least partly persuasive. But I also think it makes gender-related >attacks fair game in return. And there I'm not with you - not that you need me to be, to be sure. I don't think being a woman should give her a free pass, but I think she should be slammed solely on performance/competence, not on being a woman. Her haircut is neither here nor there. (In addition to being wrong, I think this kind of argument is tactically weak. It enables people to dismiss the argument about competence because it's wrapped in what seems to be a complaint about gender.) -- Alan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 11:00:34 GMT From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing) Subject: Re: Curly soon to be out of a job Message-ID: <00A3EF80.7DD669F1@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> In article <1107658627.0a142c897ac32b3d0151a4ba98ffa1f5@teranews>, JF Mezei writes: >Bill Todd wrote: >> advantages is her *obligation* as a CEO, and I'd find such an argument >> at least partly persuasive. But I also think it makes gender-related >> attacks fair game in return. > >Why has the dumb blonde been staring at the can of frozen orange juice >for over half an hour ? > > > > > > > > > >Because it says "CONCENTRATE "on it. > >--- > >Today, at the supermarket, there were USA magazines talking about >Jenifer Aniston and Brad Pitt. The one on the bottom proclaimed on its >cover "Brad fights to get Jen back". The one just above it had "Jen >fights to get Brad back". > >How is one, outside the USA, supposed to know that americans don't find >t acceptable to joke about dating when US exports such as those >supermarket magazines talk about nothing but that ? Was somebody joking about dating? > >----- > > >A blonde sits down in first class section of an aircraft. The flight >attendants, upon checking her ticket, find out she should be seated in >coach. They try to explain to her that she is in the wrong seat, but she >refuses to move. So the FAs call the captain. Captain whispers a few >words to her, and then she runs to the coach section. FAs ask the >captain "how did you do this ?". Captain responds "Simple, I am married >to a blonde, so I know how to handle those cases. I just told her that >the first class section wasn't going to new york, it was going to >Cleveland, so she moved to the section going to new york". > >--- > >Are dumb blonde jokes now off limits because the CEO of HP is a blonde ??????? No, just off-topic. (And say what you will about the CEO of HP, she's hardly dumb.) -- Alan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 09:04:18 -0500 From: Bill Todd Subject: Re: Curly soon to be out of a job Message-ID: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote: > In article , Bill Todd writes: ... to all appearances she has no reluctance to take advantage of such >>unearned forbearance. Now, one could argue that using any and all >>advantages is her *obligation* as a CEO, and I'd find such an argument >>at least partly persuasive. But I also think it makes gender-related >>attacks fair game in return. > > > And there I'm not with you - not that you need me to be, to be sure. Indeed - we simply seem to disagree. I > don't think being a woman should give her a free pass, but I think she > should be slammed solely on performance/competence, not on being a woman. The difficulty arises when, regardless of what you think ought to be the case, being a woman *does* give her a free pass. The question then becomes, what's the appropriate response to that? If the former didn't apply (and if she did not take active, though subtle, advantage of it), I'd agree that the latter should be out of bounds. Given the actual circumstances, I don't. - bill ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 11:31:28 -0500 From: "Neil Rieck" Subject: Re: Curly soon to be out of a job Message-ID: "Bill Todd" wrote in message news:G7ydnU3VC-695pjfRVn-tQ@metrocastcablevision.com... > [...snip...] > > Well, since you brought me into it... > > Though I was not entirely comfortable with John's comment, I could imagine > having said something similar myself if in the proper frame of mind. > > It would have been because I suspect Carly of having largely gotten a free > ride because of her sex: national public exposure as Fortune's 'most > influential businesswoman' (or whatever she was until getting dethroned > recently), plus considerable slack from people who either felt that a > woman deserved some or were loath to risk being considered male > chauvinists if they subjected her to the kind of criticism she deserved. > Please remember that Cappellas made bad decisions from the point of view of this news group so sex has nothing to do with it. IMHO the major problem with modern business is letting accountants and lawyers running things rather than technical people do it with some financial and legal advisors. Take a look around and see the currently successful high tech businesses: Bill Gates has not let go of Microsoft Larry Ellison has not let go of Oracle Mike Lazaridis has not let go of RIM On the flip side, Lotus seemd to go down hill right after Mitch Kapor handed over control of it over to a financial guy (whose name I have forgotten). No one has a crystal ball but I keep wondering what would have happed to DEC if Ken Olsen had groomed a technical guy to be his successor rather than being forced to resign and then having the board replace him with Robert Palmer. Like Microsoft, DEC was the goose that laid the golden eggs but because of his age, Ken Olsen just couldn't hang in there any longer. Now I am not so naive as to think that technical people are immune from causing the failure of a businesses. Let's remember that electrical engineer John Roth was primarily responsible for the destruction of Nortel. But on the whole one thing is clear to me: "technical people have a passion for technology while MBAs and accountants only have a passion for money". This is one possible explanation for how DEC/Compaq/HP degenerated into a purveyor of "printer cartridges". The MBAs just don't give a damn and never will. p.s. as an aside, we hear disparaging terms like "snake oil salesmen", "carpet baggers", etc. I can't help feel that 100 years from now, people will have the same opinion of MBAs and/or CEOs. *** just my opinion of things *** Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 12:50:54 -0500 From: Bill Todd Subject: Re: Curly soon to be out of a job Message-ID: Neil Rieck wrote: > "Bill Todd" wrote in message > news:G7ydnU3VC-695pjfRVn-tQ@metrocastcablevision.com... > > [...snip...] > >>Well, since you brought me into it... >> >>Though I was not entirely comfortable with John's comment, I could imagine >>having said something similar myself if in the proper frame of mind. >> >>It would have been because I suspect Carly of having largely gotten a free >>ride because of her sex: national public exposure as Fortune's 'most >>influential businesswoman' (or whatever she was until getting dethroned >>recently), plus considerable slack from people who either felt that a >>woman deserved some or were loath to risk being considered male >>chauvinists if they subjected her to the kind of criticism she deserved. >> > > > Please remember that Cappellas made bad decisions from the point of view of > this news group so sex has nothing to do with it. Au contraire: while it's certainly true that females have no obvious edge one way or the other when it comes to incompetence, in Carly's case sex has quite a bit to do with the subject under discussion here. - bill ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 12:57:56 -0500 From: "Neil Rieck" Subject: Re: Curly soon to be out of a job Message-ID: "Bill Todd" wrote in message news:GLCdncptTqOcxJvfRVn-pw@metrocastcablevision.com... > Neil Rieck wrote: >> "Bill Todd" wrote in message >> news:G7ydnU3VC-695pjfRVn-tQ@metrocastcablevision.com... >> [...snip...] >> >> Please remember that Cappellas made bad decisions from the point of view >> of >> this news group so sex has nothing to do with it. > > Au contraire: while it's certainly true that females have no obvious edge > one way or the other when it comes to incompetence, in Carly's case sex > has quite a bit to do with the subject under discussion here. > > - bill How so? Neil ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 14:46:09 +0200 From: Mike Rechtman Subject: Re: DE500, Decnet, VMS 6.2 on Alpha 800 Message-ID: <42062DB1.320BDFC1@hp.com> Roy Osborn wrote: > > I am trying to get DECnet up on a AlphaServer 800 running ancient VMS > 6.2-1H3 with SRM v.5.6-16 > > I have installed ECO's: > ALPCPU0d05_062 > ALPCPU1A02_062 > ALPCPU1B03_062 > but not ALPLAN05_062 as it requires TCP/IP 4.2, which I don't have yet. ^^^^^^^^^^^^ i. ALPLAN05_062 has been superseded by ALPLAN06_062 ii. Looking at the release notes for ALPLAN06_062 on http://itrc.hp.com/ I found no requirement for any version of UCX or TCPIP. Do take into consideration that UCX V4.2 is the earliest version supported on OpenVMS V6.2 after 1999, and that with ECO 5. Mike > -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that. Mike Rechtman *rechtman@tzora.co.il* Kibbutz Tzor'a. Voice (home): 972-2-9908337 "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%" --------------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$ PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ ------------------------------ Date: 6 Feb 2005 07:56:22 -0800 From: "Ed Wilts" Subject: Re: DVE and maximum file count Message-ID: <1107705382.189977.293410@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> Hi Rob, My issue is that I have a *large* number of little files - a typical volume will have millions of the little suckers (yup, crappy application design that I can't do anything about). Even if I init a volume today (7.3-2), I'm still constrained by the maximum number of files I can INIT the disk with using the formula (volume size in blocks)/(cluster factor + 1). It's the initial volume size that's used, not the maximum defined by the ultimate target limit. That means that I'm finding myself in the situation of not being able to use DVE - I could increase the size of the volume, but since I can't add any more files, it doesn't do me any good. I realize I could do the disk to disk backup but that means taking the volume offline for many hours., far more than any change window I'll ever see here. With millions of files, backups take forever. I've got a 50GB disk that ran out of file headers at 5000000. I've got a bunch 10GB volumes with over 500,000 files on them. For small numbers of large files, DVE should work well. For customers at the other end of the spectrum with large numbers of small files, DVE doesn't much for us. I hope that helps clarify what I'm after. Thanks, .../Ed ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 07:22:45 -0500 From: Dave Froble Subject: Re: Need an IDE for C++ (CXX) on OpenVMS Message-ID: <110c2gst6g7ab4@corp.supernews.com> Tom Linden wrote: > On Sat, 5 Feb 2005 15:49:35 -0500, Neil Rieck wrote: > >> >> "Tom Linden" wrote in message >> news:opslqlfpmvzgicya@hyrrokkin... >> >>> On Sat, 5 Feb 2005 12:22:12 -0500, Neil Rieck >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Our team is "considering" a shift from HP-BASIC to HP-C++ on >>>> OpenVMS. Can >>>> anyone recommend an IDE (Interactive/Integrated Development >>>> Environment) >>>> for >>>> use with HP-C on OpenVMS? >>>> >>>> Neil Rieck >>>> Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, >>>> Ontario, Canada. >>>> http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Why? >>> >> >> Why? >> >> I don't know how to answer this question without using the word >> "religion". >> Younger people have joined our team and they are pulling us in a >> different >> direction. >> >> I am not a language bigot (although I prefer Pascal), but have to >> admit that >> "HP-BASIC for OpenVMS" has been a very successful watering-hole >> language at >> my employer's company for more than 20 years and I have never found it a >> road block to any problem. IMHO, if your work is modular and well >> documented, who cares what you use? But on the HR front, we were >> always able >> to find programmers who either knew BASIC or easily could be taught >> BASIC so >> it became the defacto standard for us. >> >> We all know that bad programs can be written in any language but some >> of the >> C++ advocates have correctly pointed out a significant number of "bad >> code" >> examples (written by less disciplined BASIC programmers) which might have >> been avoided had we used an object oriented language. (p.s. it is my >> belief >> that this only works by raising the skill-bar high enough to exclude less >> disciplined programmers in the first place; but programmers still >> need to be >> on their best behaviour no matter what). >> >> I've written a number of C++ programs for Windows-2k but came to realize >> that large object-oriented programs can only be properly maintained by >> people (other than the original author) when an IDE is available. >> Anyone who >> has experienced the inteli-sense features of "MS-Visual Studio" or >> Eclipse >> (JAVA) will find it difficult to go back to a vanilla editor. So the >> bottom >> line is I'll check out any IDE's available for HP-C++ and see if they're >> something we can use. If the IDEs look promising then we may have to >> slowly >> migrate away from HP-BASIC (probably new code only). If they do not look >> promising then I'll recommend to the decision makers that we stick with >> HP-BASIC. >> >> Neil Rieck >> Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, >> Ontario, Canada. >> http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html >> >> > Neil, your response is at best apologetic. You either lead or you follow. > You set your standards based on criteria to which you have given, > presumably, > some thought. The fact that you are hiring kids who seem comfortable > in C++ > and are willing to accomodate their petulence is your problem and it will > get worse. Now I have programmed in most languages and most people > know my biases > and I won't expand on them here, but at least I have intellectual arguments > for my choice, and am willing to debate those on technical merits. > > Your hiring practices are wrong. Hire people who have an aptitude and > attitude > that is to your liking and train them. They don't need a degree in > Computer Science, > probably even better, they will be more creative. > > It's refreshing to hear someone finally suggest not letting the inmates run the asylum. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 22:38:31 +0800 From: prep@prep.synonet.com Subject: Re: Need an IDE for C++ (CXX) on OpenVMS Message-ID: <87k6pl92jc.fsf@prep.synonet.com> "Neil Rieck" writes: > Our team is "considering" a shift from HP-BASIC to HP-C++ on > OpenVMS. Can anyone recommend an IDE (Interactive/Integrated > Development Environment) for use with HP-C on OpenVMS? Some one has mentioned `why' so I will say DON'T. Not because I think C++ is a pit, but because you are running the risk of having to do a series of running moves in rapid sequence. That is a scenario that will trash most shops. Consider also how you will mix your existing BASIC with new C++. Don't accept handwaves, have them DO it, replace an existing BASIC routin with one done in C++ and show it passes all the tests. You are looking at the possibility of having to change everything in a few years, don't add to the pain pile! (I have a personal loathing of BASIC from a disaster 20+ years ago, but still consider it a far better pick for you than C++. I do think you need to change your programers though. Urgently!!) -- Paul Repacholi 1 Crescent Rd., +61 (08) 9257-1001 Kalamunda. West Australia 6076 comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked. EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 13:30:16 -0500 From: "Neil Rieck" Subject: Re: Need an IDE for C++ (CXX) on OpenVMS Message-ID: <%mtNd.381$504.56451@news20.bellglobal.com> wrote in message news:87k6pl92jc.fsf@prep.synonet.com... > "Neil Rieck" writes: > Thanks for all the advice. I can't disagree with any of it. But I'd like to make the following few points: First off, I am not in a position to hire/fire team members. I was once in management but realized that was not my true calling and returned to technology. Second, I'm 52 years old and the new guys are in their middle 30's. Someday they will get their own way and the results of their actions will be their problem (even so, no one wants to see computer systems they've worked on go under; programs I have written back in 1986 are still in production and I think that speaks for itself) Thirdly, what I can do is influence the decisions of management. And that is what I intend to do here by taking a calm a rational approach to these suggestions. As others have already pointed out, there is no benefit to mixing BASIC and C/C++ code. I tried it years ago by creating a BASIC program with external functions written in both BASIC and C/C++ and then comparing their performance numbers. The only thing that came out of those tests is that the Alpha platform is really fast no matter what code is being executed. So my personal line in the sand is the IDE. If a useable IDE can not be found then my work is done and I'll recommend "no" for that reason alone. However, if a usable IDE can be found then I can't say no but other concerns (some listed in this thread by others) will be brought into the debate. I, however, will not have the final say. p.s. As I stated in a previous post, HP-BASIC is a "watering-hole language" at my work place. I really wanted to use the phrase "lowest common denominator" but that seemed somewhat disparaging. But I think you get my point. Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 14:53:15 +0200 From: Mike Rechtman Subject: Re: php.ini options in MOD_PHP Message-ID: <42062F5B.7D814366@hp.com> issinoho@gmail.com wrote: > > Disappointing response, guys. > Is anyone out there developing with PHP on VMS? > Hey! Guys at HP! Who can I talk to about this? I've tried a bit - no DB stuff, so on the whole its very straight-forward if you remember there's generally a built-in function to do what you want to do, the difficulty is in finding it... Mike -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that. Mike Rechtman *rechtman@tzora.co.il* Kibbutz Tzor'a. Voice (home): 972-2-9908337 "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%" --------------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$ PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 18:13:51 GMT From: Beach Runner Subject: Re: REBOOT or SHUTDOWN, how to tell in SYSSHUTDWN.COM Message-ID: In the procedure, @sys$system:shutdown, then you can control all variables. Z wrote: > norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: > >>> Did I misread the orig request? >> >> I'd guess, yes. >> >>> Why won't that work? >> >> >> >> I should ask you to go back and reread the thread, but in short, he >> does not want to edit sys$system:shutdwn.com, so ther is no place to >> put your code if he uses the symbols he has to invoke shutdown with >> only the documented parameters. > > > I must be missing a post or two because I see no such prior stipulation > in any post in this thread. Sorry. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 00:42:28 -0600 (CST) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Zip 3.0 v. ODS5: Preferences for case preservation? Message-ID: <05020600422797_27001146@antinode.org> Currently, for better UNIX compatibility in most cases, Info-ZIP Zip 2.3 down-cases VMS file names as it stores then in an archive, so, for example, "A.B" is archived as "a.b". Let us imagine that Zip 3.0 will have some ability to preserve case in file names, and perhaps to sense ODS2-ODS5 file system types. How should it behave? Some possibilities are: 1. Down-case always (as now). 2. Preserve case as a command-line option (for both ODS2 and ODS5). 3. Preserve case for files on ODS5, down-case for ODS2 (always). 4. Preserve case as a command-line option for ODS5 and/or ODS2. X. Others? Theoretically, the choices are up-case, down-case, or preserve case for each file system type, but up-case is never done now, so the likely choices are down-case and preserve case for each. What's a good default behavior? (Same as now, or different?) Which different kinds of optional behaviors are needed? Likely command-line options would be "-C" (and/or "-Cx") and /PRESERVE_CASE [= xxx]. (Please think a bit before contributing an opinion.) Some additional thought might be given to how UnZip (6.0) should deal with ODS5 extended file names when unpacking, too, but I'll leave that for a future inquiry. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda (+1) 651-699-9818 382 South Warwick Street sms@antinode-org Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 10:54:50 +0100 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jean-Fran=E7ois_Pi=E9ronne?= Subject: Re: Zip 3.0 v. ODS5: Preferences for case preservation? Message-ID: <36m7rkF54al1pU1@individual.net> > Currently, for better UNIX compatibility in most cases, Info-ZIP Zip > 2.3 down-cases VMS file names as it stores then in an archive, so, for > example, "A.B" is archived as "a.b". > > Let us imagine that Zip 3.0 will have some ability to preserve case > in file names, and perhaps to sense ODS2-ODS5 file system types. How > should it behave? Some possibilities are: > > 1. Down-case always (as now). > 2. Preserve case as a command-line option (for both ODS2 and ODS5). > 3. Preserve case for files on ODS5, down-case for ODS2 (always). > 4. Preserve case as a command-line option for ODS5 and/or ODS2. > X. Others? > > Theoretically, the choices are up-case, down-case, or preserve case > for each file system type, but up-case is never done now, so the likely > choices are down-case and preserve case for each. > > What's a good default behavior? (Same as now, or different?) Which > different kinds of optional behaviors are needed? Likely command-line > options would be "-C" (and/or "-Cx") and /PRESERVE_CASE [= xxx]. > (Please think a bit before contributing an opinion.) > IMHO, on a ODS5 volume, case preserve is the best behaviour when you want to exchange files between VMS/Unix. Not only case preserve is necessary, exact file name preserve is needed. This is what tar do and what most of Unix/Windows,... guys expect. On a ODS2 keeping the current behaviour (lower name) is probably a good solution, anyway you have lose the initial case... Currently, when I got a zip archive from Unix or send a zip archive I use two 10 lines Python scripts which do the job. I only use VMS zip to compress backup file because zip can preserve the RMS attribute. [snip] Just my 2 cents. Jean-François ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 11:16:31 GMT From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing) Subject: Re: Zip 3.0 v. ODS5: Preferences for case preservation? Message-ID: <00A3EF82.B7E53483@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> In article <05020600422797_27001146@antinode.org>, sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) writes: > Currently, for better UNIX compatibility in most cases, Info-ZIP Zip >2.3 down-cases VMS file names as it stores then in an archive, so, for >example, "A.B" is archived as "a.b". > > Let us imagine that Zip 3.0 will have some ability to preserve case >in file names, and perhaps to sense ODS2-ODS5 file system types. How >should it behave? Some possibilities are: > > 1. Down-case always (as now). > 2. Preserve case as a command-line option (for both ODS2 and ODS5). > 3. Preserve case for files on ODS5, down-case for ODS2 (always). > 4. Preserve case as a command-line option for ODS5 and/or ODS2. > X. Others? 5. Default to option 3 but allow override by command-line option. I think that the least surprising thing is that if you make a ZIP archive of a directory and you UNZIP the archive, you get a directory that looks like the original, at least in any way that matters. I think I've seen futures discussion of an ODS-5 variant that will be case sensitive (to support Unix-style XXXX.c being a different file from xxxx.c). If I haven't hallucinated that, then we'll definitely want to preserve case for ODS-5 (since you might otherwise get filename collision inside your archive, for one thing), and I don't really see a downside to doing that, so I like option 3. But maybe somebody will someday see such a downside, in which case it would be nice to able to override the sensible default with a command-line option. -- Alan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 10:34:44 -0500 From: "John E. Malmberg" Subject: Re: Zip 3.0 v. ODS5: Preferences for case preservation? Message-ID: Steven M. Schweda wrote: > 2. Preserve case as a command-line option (for both ODS2 and ODS5). Yes > 3. Preserve case for files on ODS5, down-case for ODS2 (always). Should be default behavior if nothing is specified. ZIP/UNZIP can also take their hints for filename handling from using sys$getjpi() and looking up the DECC feature settings. > Some additional thought might be given to how UnZip (6.0) should deal > with ODS5 extended file names when unpacking, too, but I'll leave that > for a future inquiry. UNZIP should have the option of forcing case UP/DOWN. There is a need for handling multiple dots in a filename differently than the current behavior. foo.1.html needs to be restored as foo_1.html for most VMS based browsers to be able to display it. The same is the case for many source modules with multiple dots in them. -John wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only ------------------------------ Date: 6 Feb 2005 03:08:47 -0800 From: thierry.uso@wanadoo.fr (Thierry USO) Subject: [ANN] Lucane for OpenVMS Message-ID: <79c022e7.0502060308.73307f6c@posting.google.com> Lucane is a groupware platform written in Java by Vincent Fiack (http://www.lucane.org/). It offers the usual groupware functions such as calendar, forum, instant messaging, file sharing... and may be easily extended by plugins. Lucane has an embedded database (hsqldb) but an external database (mySQL...) can be used instead of hsqldb. Users access Lucane by a Java client or a browser (IE, Mozilla...). I have ported Lucane 0.7.4 on OpenVMS. Porting means testing all the functions, writing startup and shutdown procedures and creating a PCSI kit. This PCSI kit can be downloaded at http://perso.wanadoo.fr/thierry.uso/luc-en.html ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2005.074 ************************