INFO-VAX Sat, 05 Feb 2005 Volume 2005 : Issue 71 Contents: a rack mount kit, a rack mount kit, my kingdom for a rack mount kit Re: Curly soon to be out of a job Re: Curly soon to be out of a job Re: DE500, Decnet, VMS 6.2 on Alpha 800 Re: DE500, Decnet, VMS 6.2 on Alpha 800 Re: DECW$SESSION Limits... won't start new tasks Re: DECW$SESSION Limits... won't start new tasks Re: DECW$SESSION Limits... won't start new tasks Re: DVE and maximum file count FBI gets hacked - should have been on OpenVMS! Re: FBI gets hacked - should have been on OpenVMS! Re: FBI gets hacked - should have been on OpenVMS! FTP server logs useless name instead of IP address? Re: Full page color HP ad for Re: Full page color HP ad for Re: Full page color HP ad for HP helps unix and Windows - still no VMS publicity Re: HP rx2600 rack mount conversion Re: HP rx2600 rack mount conversion Re: HP rx2600 rack mount conversion Re: Intrusion attempts Re: Intrusion attempts Re: Intrusion attempts Re: Intrusion attempts Re: Intrusion attempts Re: Intrusion attempts Is it a terminal device ? Re: Is it a terminal device ? Known problems when serving Quicktime files with CSWS 1.3? Re: Known problems when serving Quicktime files with CSWS 1.3? Re: Known problems when serving Quicktime files with CSWS 1.3? LASAR (test simulation software) Re: LASAR (test simulation software) Re: Lexical to get ACL Re: Loads of DS10L 466 in stock for $250 Re: REBOOT or SHUTDOWN, how to tell in SYSSHUTDWN.COM Re: REBOOT or SHUTDOWN, how to tell in SYSSHUTDWN.COM Re: REBOOT or SHUTDOWN, how to tell in SYSSHUTDWN.COM Re: REBOOT or SHUTDOWN, how to tell in SYSSHUTDWN.COM Re: REBOOT or SHUTDOWN, how to tell in SYSSHUTDWN.COM Re: There goes the volume market. Remind me again.... Re: There goes the volume market. Remind me again.... Re: Vendor support for RMS (Attunity) Re: Vendor support for RMS (Attunity) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 4 Feb 2005 19:19:29 -0600 From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) Subject: Message-ID: In article <1107530263.459752.254980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "Ed Wilts" writes: > > Ed Wilts wrote: >> With the welcome introduction of dynamic volume expansion, I expect >> that eventually we'll find ourselves with enough disk space but not >> enough file headers. What are the current plans, if any, on allowing >> customers to increase this without a volume re-init? Is this even >> technically do-able? Even an option like mounting the volume > privately >> for a few minutes would be acceptable (like enabling DVE on an > existing >> volume). >> >> Thanks, >> .../Ed > > Anybody? Rob? > > I've already into a case where I can't initialize a volume to account > for a large number of files because the volume isn't currently > physically large enough. This defeats the purpose of DVE in the > future. > > .../Ed > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 21:16:17 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: a rack mount kit, a rack mount kit, my kingdom for a rack mount kit Message-ID: <00A3EE5D.51C45701@SendSpamHere.ORG> The web site is useless for ordering the rx2600 rack mount kit. So I call the 1-800 number. Just as useless. Perhaps somebody out there has a rack mount rx2600 and would like to house it in the "jersey wall". If so, let me know. -- http://www.ProvN.com for the *best* OpenVMS system security solutions that others only claim to be. -- Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.: The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software product! -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ------------------------------ Date: 4 Feb 2005 14:54:17 -0800 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com Subject: Re: Curly soon to be out of a job Message-ID: <1107557657.710471.188580@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> I hope so I really liked him, I could send him mail and he would respond, he understood and liked technology, he was a nice man. One time we we were at a meeting and he looked at me and said "I owe you something" and that was after not seeing me for 9 months I told him what it was, he left the meeting and by the time I got home (he was on the plane flying back to Houston) I had an answer. He came to ZKO,he stopped by my office, he was in the ZKO VMS lab, the last president to do that was Ken. So saw what you like he has his good points. Sue John Smith wrote: > JF Mezei wrote: > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4234027.stm > > > > BBC reports that the Wall Street journal reports that Qwest will make > > a bid for MCI. > > > > Where will Curly go ? Are there any companies left that are in such a > > bad shape that nobody wants to take on the job of CEO, leaving the > > door opened for the accountant to get another job of scuttling and > > then selling the company ? > > > We all know what will happen..... > > carly(tm) will get forced out and curly will be brought back in to replace > her. He did such a great job during the months post-merger that HP gave him > how many millions in bonuses before he left? I'm sure they will want a man > of his obvious expertise and keen sense of the market to take the reins at > HP. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 18:02:00 -0500 From: "John Smith" Subject: Re: Curly soon to be out of a job Message-ID: Sue, I respect your opinion of Curly. At a personal level I'm pretty sure that carly isn't a bad person either. She probably doesn't beat her dog or kick little kids. She can probably be a great dinner date, and maybe she's great in bed too. But as a CEO of a company on which tens of thousands of enterprise class customers depend...well she's just out of her league, and dangerous too. Ditto for curly. susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote: > I hope so I really liked him, I could send him mail and he would > respond, he understood and liked technology, he was a nice man. One > time we we were at a meeting and he looked at me and said "I owe you > something" and that was after not seeing me for 9 months I told him > what it was, he left the meeting and by the time I got home (he was on > the plane flying back to Houston) I had an answer. He came to ZKO,he > stopped by my office, he was in the ZKO VMS lab, the last president > to do that was Ken. So saw what you like he has his good points. > > Sue > > John Smith wrote: >> JF Mezei wrote: >>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4234027.stm >>> >>> BBC reports that the Wall Street journal reports that Qwest will >>> make a bid for MCI. >>> >>> Where will Curly go ? Are there any companies left that are in >>> such a bad shape that nobody wants to take on the job of CEO, >>> leaving the door opened for the accountant to get another job of >>> scuttling and then selling the company ? >> >> >> We all know what will happen..... >> >> carly(tm) will get forced out and curly will be brought back in to >> replace her. He did such a great job during the months post-merger >> that HP gave him how many millions in bonuses before he left? I'm >> sure they will want a man of his obvious expertise and keen sense of >> the market to take the reins at HP. ------------------------------ Date: 4 Feb 2005 11:09:54 -0800 From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" Subject: Re: DE500, Decnet, VMS 6.2 on Alpha 800 Message-ID: <1107544194.020555.249870@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> You may want to change the auto-negotitate setting on the DE500 to FastFD (or whatever your switch will handle). Do a google on c.o.v. for DE500 and auto-negotiate and you will find multiple threads indicating that the Tulip based cards had issues with auto-negotiate and certain switches. Also it may cause longer boot times as the card is (was?) reset 3 times or so during a VMS boot. John H. Reinhardt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 19:43:28 +0000 From: John Laird Subject: Re: DE500, Decnet, VMS 6.2 on Alpha 800 Message-ID: On 4 Feb 2005 11:09:54 -0800, "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" wrote: >You may want to change the auto-negotitate setting on the DE500 to >FastFD (or whatever your switch will handle). Do a google on c.o.v. >for DE500 and auto-negotiate and you will find multiple threads >indicating that the Tulip based cards had issues with auto-negotiate >and certain switches. Also it may cause longer boot times as the card >is (was?) reset 3 times or so during a VMS boot. We've an AS800 with a DE500 card (two, actually) which misbehaves very badly with our Dlink switch if set to auto-negotiate. It claims to negotiate 100Mb full-duplex, but the switch LEDs say half-duplex and performance is *terrible*. When forced to FastFD, all is fine. Running 7.3-2. YMMV. -- Who is this GENERAL FAILURE and WHY is he reading MY disk? Mail john rather than nospam... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 17:21:11 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: DECW$SESSION Limits... won't start new tasks Message-ID: <1107554986.2f29dba4281cc753e3ed0b193cb8b099@teranews> Thanks for the input. The sesison manager seemed to have eated up all but about 1000 pages of its pagefile quota. What is interesting is that it had no trouble finding memory to open new fileview windows, but wouldn't spawn subprocesses. I managed to quit the decw$session , and it maintained my decterm windows, and I was able to try to restart the decw$session.exe, but that killed a lot (back to a fuzzy display indicating the server probably crashed too) and got back the login screen. Seems that decw$session doesn't free memory after it is no longer needed and eventually gets to its limit. When I got decw$session to quit, I heard the disk work hard as it was unpaging all the data written to the page file. But it otherwise seemed to be a clean exit. This is different from other reports that say it crashes when it runs out of virtual memory. Mine didn't crash, it just didn't want to start new tasks. And obviously, I tried to restart decw$session in a not very normal manner, so that fact that it failed and caused 2 decterms to go isn't a surprise. At least the server and login screen came back. For software that has been around for so long, I am surprised that it would still have such flaws. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 14:51:47 -0800 From: Ken Fairfield Subject: Re: DECW$SESSION Limits... won't start new tasks Message-ID: JF Mezei wrote: > Thanks for the input. The sesison manager seemed to have eated up all > but about 1000 pages of its pagefile quota. What is interesting is that > it had no trouble finding memory to open new fileview windows, but > wouldn't spawn subprocesses. You do remember that whenever you create a subprocess, certain process resources are divided between the parent and the subprocess, and that pgflquota is one of those? This is the reason you can continue to create detached processes (they have a full compliment of quotas) and that a parent process that attempts to create more and more subprocesses eventually fails due to one or another quota being exhausted. I would expect, but don't know, that when a subprocess exits, its quotas are returned to its parent process. [...] > For software that has been around for so long, I am surprised that it > would still have such flaws. Its a feature. :-) Limit the number of subprocesses. -Ken -- I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me... Ken Fairfield D1C Automation VMS System Support who: kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 22:49:29 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: DECW$SESSION Limits... won't start new tasks Message-ID: <1107574692.9acb3f3e51c8b960af6a440f4ef2f5fd@teranews> Ken Fairfield wrote: > You do remember that whenever you create a subprocess, > certain process resources are divided between the parent > and the subprocess, and that pgflquota is one of those? Thanks. I wasn't quite sute exactly what was divided and what wasn't. In my case however, there were no subprocesses left. And DECW$SESSION was still consuming heaps of virtual space (and page file quota). > I would expect, but don't know, that when a subprocess > exits, its quotas are returned to its parent process. Well, that is the big question isn't it. Starting up a fileview would show the working set increasing, but the virtual pages (which were at nearly 70k pages) not increasing. That would indicate that DECW$SESSION itself had reserved a whole bunch of virtual memory, not relased it when not needed, and using it for its local tasks such s fileview, but because all of the quota was taken, it was unable to span subprocesses. I think i have enough trust in VMS that when a subprocess exits, its houdl relinquyish all the resources it was taking, and the parent should no longer be penalised for any abuses made but its child subprocess. So if the parent was consuming lots of resources, it seems to me that it was the parent really consuming those. > Its a feature. :-) Limit the number of subprocesses. Funny how VMS isn't as fault free and bug free as we are lead to believe :-) Big difference is that we have tools such as SHOW SYS and SHOW PROC and ANA/SYS whereas other OS, such as window have an all encompasing tool such as ALT-CTRL-DEL :-) ------------------------------ Date: 4 Feb 2005 19:52:35 -0600 From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) Subject: Re: DVE and maximum file count Message-ID: In article <1107530263.459752.254980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "Ed Wilts" writes: > > Ed Wilts wrote: >> With the welcome introduction of dynamic volume expansion, I expect >> that eventually we'll find ourselves with enough disk space but not >> enough file headers. What are the current plans, if any, on allowing >> customers to increase this without a volume re-init? Is this even >> technically do-able? Even an option like mounting the volume > privately >> for a few minutes would be acceptable (like enabling DVE on an > existing >> volume). >> >> Thanks, >> .../Ed > > Anybody? Rob? > > I've already into a case where I can't initialize a volume to account > for a large number of files because the volume isn't currently > physically large enough. This defeats the purpose of DVE in the > future. > I was a bit confused until my eye caught "currently" on a re-read. At that, I may not be answering your question... but thought maybe describing a typical use of DVE and going from there. I didn't read ahead to see if someone already answered it but here is my take. The Dynamic Volume Expansion is an ideal solution for a typical database environment. The client asks for a 9 GByte volume and their growth projections are 9 Gigs in 2 years so you give them a 9 GByte volume and sure enough in 6 months they need that 9 GByte volume to become 18 GByte. (Note that max files or indexf.sys doesn't come into play here... you have a volume with maybe 1, 2 10 very large files). If you started prior to 7.3-2, you will *most likely* have to do something similar to this (offline conversation tells me this is the safest): 1) No app running/no streams open so you can dismount 2) Dismount the shadow 3) Mount 1 member private /over=(id,shadow) 4) $ SET VOLUME/LIMIT physicaldisk: 5) dismount, mount/cluster 6) Mount physically larger disk 7) Shadow copy completes 8) Dismount smaller disk 9) $ SET VOLUME/SIZE ! You just expanded to larger 10) Mount like-sized physically larger disk to get back to 2 member shadowset. If you were fortunate enough to start fresh such that your init included /limit , then you can skip the private mount part and do this without application downtime. But you are discovering this isn't a panacea for max file limit as the set volume/limit expands bitmap.sys to its max size (and by the way, if your cluster size is 1 , when you do a /limit and show dev/full you will notice your maximum size is 131 GBytes. If your cluster size is 3, your maximum size is 300 million blocks or something close to that, if your cluster size is 8 or larger the 2 billion plus block size works out to a 1 TByte disk as a max size). Indexf.sys isn't affected. And we all know how to get out of maximum file limit situations. I was reading about this recently and thought that John Briggs had good comments about it: http://tinyurl.com/4tk4s And Alan Feldman: http://tinyurl.com/6hkwa But wouldn't your solution be the old, backup to tape (or larger disk) and then: 1) Init large target with bigger max files and /limit (so you could *then* go to a larger drive seemlessly) 2) backup/noinit/image source: larger_target_disk: ? Does this help? Can you further describe your problem? Rob ------------------------------ Date: 4 Feb 2005 15:44:21 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.com Subject: FBI gets hacked - should have been on OpenVMS! Message-ID: <1107560661.239037.303620@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> when will they learn ... http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=21102 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 20:22:09 -0500 From: "John Smith" Subject: Re: FBI gets hacked - should have been on OpenVMS! Message-ID: bob@instantwhip.com wrote: > when will they learn ... Apparently only when HP advertises OpenVMS. FBI IT execs are just like others - they read the trade rags and see the ads, they read the WSJ and see the ads, fly commercial and read the in-flight magazine and see the advertising in the passenger lounges, and they watch TV and see the ads. Anything else you want to know? > > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=21102 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 22:59:47 -0500 From: "John S." Subject: Re: FBI gets hacked - should have been on OpenVMS! Message-ID: Photos of a DEC system used by the FBI http://www.vistadome.com/fbi.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 21:38:09 -0600 (CST) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: FTP server logs useless name instead of IP address? Message-ID: <05020421380918_27001145@antinode.org> ALP $ tcpip show version HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.4 - ECO 4 on a AlphaStation 200 4/233 running OpenVMS V7.3-1 %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-FEB-2005 21:25:58.95 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user TCPIP$FTP on ALP User Name: anonymous Source: exchange.gezer.com.tr Status: NOPRIV -- File access violation Object: SYS$SYSDEVICE:[ANONYMOUS.050205052955p] alp $ nslookup exchange.gezer.com.tr Server: alp-l.antinode.org Address: 10.0.0.9 *** alp-l.antinode.org can't find exchange.gezer.com.tr: Non-existent host/domai n All I have found in the logs (sys$sysdevice:[tcpip$ftp]tcpip$ftp_anonymous.log, sys$sysdevice:[tcpip$ftp]tcpip$ftp_run.log) is the name from the reverse look-up, but as the corresponding forward look-up fails, how do I know the actual source? Almost anyone could _claim_ to be "exchange.gezer.com.tr". ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda (+1) 651-699-9818 382 South Warwick Street sms@antinode-org Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: 4 Feb 2005 12:11:04 -0800 From: "denny" Subject: Re: Full page color HP ad for Message-ID: <1107547864.335904.312730@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> But wait! check out the HP website http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/servers/byos/openvmsservers.html Itanium and Alpha, both available with V8.2 OVMS. I would say this is as good an "offer(ed) for sale" as you will find anywhere. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 15:45:39 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Full page color HP ad for Message-ID: <1107549263.ea340e6b7d39b7c5ba4e95ea8b99b029@teranews> denny wrote: > > But wait! check out the HP website > http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/servers/byos/openvmsservers.html How did you navigate from www.hp.com to that page ? I tried navigating from ww.whp.com to "small and medium business". (since VMS is only available on small IA64s right now). I did get to a page that shows Proliant, HP9000 Integrity and Alpha Servers. And that is good. (the fact that mainstream users who don't specifically ask for Alpha/VMS would get to a page that shows their availability). From that page, I got to: http://www.hp.com/products1/servers/integrity/entry_level/index.html And while VMS is not mentioned, openVMS is mentioned (last) in the list of OS on the left of the page. So that is a big improvement. But clicking on the "openVMS" thing gets you to: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/integrity/index.html Which is essentially a press release of janb 18th announcement that VMS was available on that IA64 thing. But on the left are a lot of useful vms related links. Now, if the previouew page linked to the page you quoted (the one with "byos" in the URL) it would have made a bigger splash. ------------------------------ Date: 4 Feb 2005 16:06:51 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Full page color HP ad for Message-ID: <24fAdAJIAkE4@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <1107547864.335904.312730@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, "denny" writes: > But wait! check out the HP website > http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/servers/byos/openvmsservers.html > > Itanium and Alpha, both available with V8.2 OVMS. > > I would say this is as good an "offer(ed) for sale" as you will find > anywhere. This is the first time I've seen HP state out load that HP Telco servers run VMS. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 18:31:00 -0500 From: "John Smith" Subject: HP helps unix and Windows - still no VMS publicity Message-ID: http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1759770,00.asp February 3, 2005 New HP Software Boosts Business Continuity By Brian Fonseca Hewlett-Packard on Tuesday announced three new additions to its HP StorageWorks Business Continuance Software portfolio that are designed to drastically improve replication and automatic failover capabilities of HP StorageWorks EVA (Enterprise Virtual Array) midrange arrays. Available this quarter, the HP Metrocluster, HP Continentalclusters and HP StorageWorks Cluster Extension EVA enable HP-UX and Microsoft Windows customers to better combat planned or unplanned system downtime. These applications do this by failing over the entire server cluster and storage site beyond just a local data center, said Belinda Wilson, executive director of business continuity and availability for Palo Alto, Calif.-based Hewlett-Packard Co. Relating to HP-UX environments, Metrocluster and Contentinalclusters are layers of middleware that provide continuous access. They sit between server clustering and midrange array-based replication capability in such a way that servers and storage can be protected with replicated instances of data using EVA at long distances via a single product. Metrocluster offers synchronous replication featuring automatic and bidirectional failover and fail back operations. The cluster is limited to 260 kilometers and supports up to 16 HP 9000 and Integrity servers. For its part, Continentalclusters provides asynchronous replication, extends beyond 260 km for greater geographic stretching of data and supports up to 32 HP 9000 and Integrity servers per Continentalclusters deployment. HP's new host-based application, called Cluster Extension, integrates Continuous Access EVA remote mirroring and Microsoft Cluster Service. The software offers the same functionality for both local metropolitan and wide-area failover and fail back as Metrocluster and Continentalclusters, but is specifically designed to perform those disaster recovery tasks within Windows environments. "What [midrange array and SMB (small and midsize businesses) customers] really need are other sites that can map them up almost with a duplication of their facility without having to have a duplication done," Wilson said. "Because of [growing] database sizes, it makes sense to ether vault or replicate your data. Before you could just reload from tape, and that's just not feasible anymore." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 14:38:41 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: HP rx2600 rack mount conversion Message-ID: <1107545245.fe49925d4a00543cf22d20f5ed76e63e@teranews> "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" wrote: > > FYI I asked our source at HP and even they can't get them !!! > That makes me more than a little concerned Could this be a case of employees not yet knowing all the tricks of the SAP package and thus don't know how to get to the more obscure parts of it ? ------------------------------ Date: 4 Feb 2005 23:53:44 -0600 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: HP rx2600 rack mount conversion Message-ID: <0G7bpPCq0ojT@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <36hqf9F4vp32uU1@individual.net>, "Peter Weaver" writes: > Larry Kilgallen wrote: >> In article <36f8dnF4tv2bhU1@individual.net>, "Peter Weaver" >> writes: >>> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >>>> ... >>>> IDF but have not received a single response. I have a lot of >>>> Itanium here that I can't use if I can't rack mount it. >>>> ... >>> >>> While searching for information about the RX2600 I noticed that >>> there is a manual named hp workstations zx6000, hp server rx2600 - >>> tower to rack and rack to tower system conversion guide >>> (a7857-90017) on the page >>> > http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/DocumentIndex.jsp?contentType=SupportManual&locale=en_US&docIndexId=179911&taskId=101&prodTypeId=15351&prodSeriesId=447335 >> >> I tried to read it but got a "page not found" looking for the PDF >> file. > > Must have been a temporary glitch, it just worked for me. It still does not work for me. Just as a check, the URL for the PDF is: http://h200007.www2.hp.com/bc/docs/support/SupportManual/lpv38564/lpv38564.pdf;jsessionid=CEfy8r9zhqUE7dHv1ODnoHW6iktk3SDaR5tBg22zUdlkWTL1L5QF!1266288630 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2005 01:45:57 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: HP rx2600 rack mount conversion Message-ID: <1107585272.dd5953a9589974a0cfbb5beb037a14b0@teranews> Larry Kilgallen wrote: > Just as a check, the URL for the PDF is: > > http://h200007.www2.hp.com/bc/docs/support/SupportManual/lpv38564/lpv38564.pdf;jsessionid=CEfy8r9zhqUE7dHv1ODnoHW6iktk3SDaR5tBg22zUdlkWTL1L5QF!1266288630 In case your removed your killfile on me, the URL above is illegal. the ; before "jsessionid" should be a ? to signify the end of the URL per say and start of arguments. Removing all arguments seems to work: > http://h200007.www2.hp.com/bc/docs/support/SupportManual/lpv38564/lpv38564.pdf If you still killfile my posts, then you'll have to wiat for someone else to respond. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 10:42:58 -0800 From: Ken Fairfield Subject: Re: Intrusion attempts Message-ID: Syltrem wrote: > "Ken Fairfield" a écrit dans le message de > news:ctu5pb$c4s$1@news01.intel.com... > >>As John Briggs pointed out, there are security issues if that >>information were sent in a OPCOM message. >> >>On the other hand, the information you seek is available via >>ACCOUNTING (which is where I find it), and mostly via ANALYZE/AUDIT >>(which I haven't tried, so can't guarantee, but would expect it's >>there). >> > > > > After 4 failed login attempts with 3 different usernames, and one ^Z (no > username entered): > > In accounting I do not see the usernames used, and only one record with this > message: > %LOGIN-F-NOSUCHUSER, no such user > There is another entry with this message (triggered by the ^Z): > %LOGIN-F-CMDINPUT, error reading command input > > OTOH, the audit does not show anything for some reason > I have the auditing enabled for loginfailures: > System security audits currently enabled for: > Logfailure: > batch,dialup,local,remote,network,subprocess,detached,server > but $ anal/aud/ev=breakin sys$manager:SECURITY.AUDIT$JOURNAL/sin > returns nothing. OK, you don't get the information on the non-existant username supplied until the remote user gets classified as an intruder and you've triggered breakin evasion. Once you have crossed that threshold, $ ANAL/AUDIT/EVENT=BREAKIN will list the username supplied even if it is a "no such user"... -Ken -- I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me... Ken Fairfield D1C Automation VMS System Support who: kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 11:05:07 -0800 From: DeanW Subject: Re: Intrusion attempts Message-ID: <3f119ada05020411051b406b4e@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 17:21:21 -0500, JF Mezei wrote: > briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: > It is far more important to know how hackers in asia are trying to get > in than to prevent someone in a room next to OPCOM listen to the bells. See my earlier post about determining where failed SSH logins come from- IMO, SSH failure logging is broken. There are OPCOM messages about connections made that I can trace, assuming that anything not known to be a customer is an attempt to break in- but the intrusion database logs TCPIP$SSH as the username and no source IP address- when they trip intruder status, then I get the IP address, but only in the dynamic intruder database. What good is *that*? -- Dean Woodward =o&o dean.woodward@gmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 14:50:31 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Intrusion attempts Message-ID: <1107545956.ed5a34d862f70f995613a2d725a32d03@teranews> DeanW wrote: > See my earlier post about determining where failed SSH logins come > from- IMO, SSH failure logging is broken. There are OPCOM messages > about connections made that I can trace, Same with the VAX version of the XDM server. You can perform a billion login attempts from the XDM login panel with no logging or no intrusion detection or no alarms. (as of 5.3-2). You can't take VMS security for granted. And the opcom/audit messages about originating node can't even display an IP address, they display a large integer value. Since the roadmap talks baout replacing the whole login thing with the road runner's ACME corporation stuff, perhaps it would be time to review the whole logging of attampts to provide system managers with far more meaningful information, and also, to provide switches/logicals to log usernames and passwords. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 15:47:23 -0500 From: "Syltrem" Subject: Re: Intrusion attempts Message-ID: <0aRMd.2795$df.105309@tor-nn1.netcom.ca> "Peter Weaver" a écrit dans le message de news:36htg0F52uqiaU1@individual.net... > so ANA/AUD/EV=LOGFAIL is what you need rather than /EV=BREAKIN. > > On the system I just tried (VAX/VMS 7.1) LGI_BRK_LIM is 5, so my 6th try > showed up in the audit record as a breakin attempt with both the > username and password showing. I do not have Auditing turned on for > local login failures, but if I did the 1st to 5th attempts should have > shown up with no password. > Yes Peter, that should have been /EVENT=LOGFAIL, not BREAKIN But I still don't see the attempted username until I reach breaking limit. My problem is that I have users who are preventing people in the whole shop to log in, by locking up the IP port (source) from where all users of handheld devices are logging in. I thought that if I had the username information they are using, maybe (just maybe) I would have an idea if they do that by mistake or by intent. Right now I unlock (delete/intrusion) the port at interval. I don't like that but I can't have everyone in there locked up when they change shifts and try to log in. -- Syltrem OpenVMS 7.3-1 + Oracle 8.1.7.4 http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site, en français) ---zulu is not in my email address--- > -- > Peter Weaver > Weaver Consulting Services Inc. > Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX > www.weaverconsulting.ca > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 13:38:21 -0800 From: Ken Fairfield Subject: Re: Intrusion attempts Message-ID: Syltrem wrote: > "Peter Weaver" a écrit dans le > message de news:36htg0F52uqiaU1@individual.net... > >>so ANA/AUD/EV=LOGFAIL is what you need rather than /EV=BREAKIN. [...] > Yes Peter, that should have been /EVENT=LOGFAIL, not BREAKIN > > But I still don't see the attempted username until I reach breaking limit. > > My problem is that I have users who are preventing people in the whole shop > to log in, by locking up the IP port (source) from where all users of > handheld devices are logging in. > I thought that if I had the username information they are using, maybe (just > maybe) I would have an idea if they do that by mistake or by intent. > Right now I unlock (delete/intrusion) the port at interval. I don't like > that but I can't have everyone in there locked up when they change shifts > and try to log in. Yes, having a common source (IP address) is very problematic in multi-user VMS environment. I can attest to that. ;-( On the other hand, once you've reached the point of having an intruder, you can see the target username in the audit record. Alternatively, you could schedule a job to regularly delete the intrusion records with that IP address as the source. -Ken -- I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me... Ken Fairfield D1C Automation VMS System Support who: kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com ------------------------------ Date: 4 Feb 2005 23:57:09 -0600 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: Intrusion attempts Message-ID: In article <0aRMd.2795$df.105309@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>, "Syltrem" writes: > My problem is that I have users who are preventing people in the whole shop > to log in, by locking up the IP port (source) from where all users of > handheld devices are logging in. Have you set LGI_BRK_TERM ? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 16:43:34 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Is it a terminal device ? Message-ID: <1107552733.d0cadb2d292fe4ecccdea3514f491ad0@teranews> With F$MODE .eqs. "INTERACTIVE" no longer a sure bet to catch all "interactive" logins (telnet, set host, SSH, phantom devices etc), is there an item code one could do with F$GETDVI(SYS$COMMAND, "xxxx") to find out if this user is on a terminal device ? For instance, in SYLOGIN.COM , it would be nice to have that to decide whether a SET TERM/INQUIRE should be done or not etc etc. What is the current best method to know if a process is a terminal-like input/output device ? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 17:42:25 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Is it a terminal device ? Message-ID: <1107556262.3c1409b65b6e9af52942843b8d021b4b@teranews> Ken Fairfield wrote: > Yep, use the "TRM" item, i.e., F$GetDvi("Sys$Command","TRM"). > From the documention, "TRM returns TRUE or FALSE to indicate whether > the device is a terminal." Many thanks. In the past half hour, I found solutions to 4 problems. Great feeling ! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2005 01:43:15 GMT From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing) Subject: Known problems when serving Quicktime files with CSWS 1.3? Message-ID: <00A3EE69.77F20170@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> CSWS 1.3 OpenVMS 7.3-2 DS20E I have a user who FTPed a QuickTime .MOV file to his VMS-based web directory. When he tries to fetch it back through a browser, Apache sends the appropriate mime-type and QuickTime fires up, but the file is broken. (What he gets back is noticeably larger than what was on disk, and QuickTime won't play it.) When he FTPs the file back to Windows disk, he can play it through QuickTime. I had him FTP the file up with a name that Apache wouldn't recognize as being QuickTime. As a .TESTMOV file, no mime type was sent, but he was able to save the file to local disk and then play it with QuickTime. My Mime.Types has qt and mov defined as application/quicktime. I haven't configured anything else non-default. I _think_ this shows that Apache is messing up QuickTime files when it knows they're QuickTime files, and not otherwise. What do I have to do to make this work? Is there anyone else successfully serving QuickTime files - not as streaming video, but just as files - on CSWS? Thanks, -- Alan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 23:01:26 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Known problems when serving Quicktime files with CSWS 1.3? Message-ID: <1107575409.a4813611ff1d7e58db24d354d87c29db@teranews> Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote: > My Mime.Types has qt and mov defined as application/quicktime. I haven't > configured anything else non-default. Not sure about the proprietary version of Apache. But with the real VMS web server, OSU, one also defines if a certain type of file is binary,or text. The web server must not only supply the correct mime type in the HTTP response header, but also decide if it feeds the data raw , or converts the VMS file to cr/lf format if the content tpe of textual in nature. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2005 04:12:13 GMT From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing) Subject: Re: Known problems when serving Quicktime files with CSWS 1.3? Message-ID: <00A3EE7E.47424B70@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> In article <1107575409.a4813611ff1d7e58db24d354d87c29db@teranews>, JF Mezei writes: >Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote: >> My Mime.Types has qt and mov defined as application/quicktime. I haven't >> configured anything else non-default. > >Not sure about the proprietary version of Apache. But with the real VMS >web server, OSU, one also defines if a certain type of file is binary,or text. > >The web server must not only supply the correct mime type in the HTTP >response header, but also decide if it feeds the data raw , or converts >the VMS file to cr/lf format if the content tpe of textual in nature. True. But you don't do that in Apache, which comes from a tradition of throwing whatever it finds on disk out on the wire. -- Alan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 15:38:13 -0600 From: "Roy Osborn" Subject: LASAR (test simulation software) Message-ID: <4203ee38_1@127.0.0.1> Was wondering if anyone has a source for LASAR test simulation software (probably version 6.6) that runs under VMS? Tried to contact Teradyne but have received no response. Thanks! ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 22:08:00 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: LASAR (test simulation software) Message-ID: <00A3EE64.8B6F5653@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article <4203ee38_1@127.0.0.1>, "Roy Osborn" writes: >Was wondering if anyone has a source for LASAR test simulation software >(probably version 6.6) that runs under VMS? Tried to contact Teradyne but >have received no response. Thanks! :) Now there's an application out of my past. Let me know if you can't get any response from Teradyne. I'll ask some of the folks I still know from the Navy's DATPG/ATE center. -- http://www.ProvN.com for the *best* OpenVMS system security solutions that others only claim to be. -- Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.: The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software product! -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 16:56:52 -0500 From: "Hein" Subject: Re: Lexical to get ACL Message-ID: <4203f0ac@usenet01.boi.hp.com> "James J. O'Shea" wrote in message news:20050203215604.66394.qmail@web81103.mail.yahoo.com... > In a command procedure I want to: > > 1. Save the ACLs and protection settings of file1 > 2. Delete file1 > 3. Create file2 using the same name as file1 > 4. Apply original ACLs and protection of file1 to file2 Hmm, so in the end you'll just have a new, empty, file with a new file-id but otherwise the same as the original. Of, you may also have created some autit records and the file will 'move' on the disk, and the creation date changed, but those are unlikely to be interesting side effects. If the main (only?) reason to do this is to emtpy the original file then why not just do that? For example with dcl: $copy/over nl: tmp.tmp/log Or in a program use RMS to $OPEN (FAC=TRN), $GET, $TRUNCATE Trival for a sequential file. Tricky for an indexed file. If this is something you need to do a lot for an indexed file, then I would consider keeping an empty original file in a safe place and clone that. For example: $ crea/fdl=sys$input over.orig file; organization indexed; key 0; seg0_l 3 $ copy over.orig over.dat $ set acl/acl=(ident=system,access=none) over.dat $ convert/merge sys$input over.dat aap noot $ type over.dat aap noot $ dir/secu over.* OVER.DAT;1 [SYSTEM] (RWED,RWED,RE,) (IDENTIFIER=[SYSTEM],ACCESS=NONE) OVER.ORIG;1 [SYSTEM] (RWED,RWED,RE,) $ copy/over OVER.ORIG;1 OVER.DAT;1 $ type over.dat $ dir/secu over.* OVER.DAT;1 [SYSTEM] (RWED,RWED,RE,) (IDENTIFIER=[SYSTEM],ACCESS=NONE) OVER.ORIG;1 [SYSTEM] (RWED,RWED,RE,) I actually have a small program somewhere that would just blast the rms prologue blocks from a template over a file for a very speedy 'reset'. Of course that can only be done without concurrent access. fwiw, Hein. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 15:02:56 -0500 From: "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" Subject: Re: Loads of DS10L 466 in stock for $250 Message-ID: Sent an email to you Chris - I need a configuration request. Then I can quote -- ________________________________________________ David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404 Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Mobile: 912 447 6622 X251 Fax: 912 201 0402 Email: dbturner@icusc.com Web: http://www.islandco.com ________________________________________________ "Chris Sharman" wrote in message news:cu018f$fdu$1$830fa17d@news.demon.co.uk... > David Turner, Island Computers US Corp wrote: > > > We still have loads in stock in the US and UK > > Shipping within the USA is $35 > > Shipping within EU is $60 > > Would you like to sell kit to me ? > I've been emailing sales at hpaq dot net since before Christmas, and > I've emailed you a couple of times too. I've got no response - don't > know whether you've blacklisted me or spamfiltered me. > > Could do with a quote for a DR box to cover my DS20E, connected to an > RA3000. > > Email me please at ccagroup dot co dot uk > > Thanks, > Chris > > > What you get: > > > > > > Alphaserver DS10L 466Mhz EV6 with 2MB Cache > > Dual 10/100 Ethernet On Board > > Dual IDE Controller and Floppy controller on board > > USB (obviously not much use) > > Dual Serial Ports (one as console) > > Parallel Port > > Multivoltage power supply (100~250V 50/60Hz Worldwide power) > > 1 PCI Slot 64 Bit- > > Standard Keyboard PS/2 Connector > > Standard Mouse PS/2 Connector > > 2 Useable Memory Slots (actually has 4 slots but they are unusable due to > > horzontal installation of memory) > > > > No Memory or disk is included > > There are no built in graphics on this system > > > > Add 256MB memory for only $99 (Compaq original) > > Add 512MB Memory for only $179 (Island Branded) > > Add 1GB Memory foro only $389 (Island Branded) > > Add a Single Rackmount Kit for only $40 > > Add a Quad Rackmount Kit for only $55 > > Add an UW SCSI Controller VMS Compatible for only $50 OR > > Add a Permedia 2 Graphics Card (same as ELSA GLoria) for only $129 > > Add a Permedia 2 Graphics Combo U2 SCSI Card for $899 > > > > Licenses: > > > > OpenVMS Base NEW for DS10L $525 > > OpenVMS Base and EIP for only $1399 (special only with these systems) > > Tru64 Unix Base License for $299 > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 11:59:40 -0800 From: Z Subject: Re: REBOOT or SHUTDOWN, how to tell in SYSSHUTDWN.COM Message-ID: John Brandon wrote: > REBOOT == "@SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN 0 REBOOT NO YES YES YES REMOVE_NODE,REBOOT_CHECK" > SHUTDOWN == "@SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN 0 STANDALONE NO YES NO NO REMOVE_NODE,REBOOT_CHECK" > > (Nothing more than the standard REBOOT and SHUTDOWN symbols) > P2 = REBOOT or STANDALONE > > > In SYS$SYSTEM:SYSHUTDWN.COM I log the SHUTDOWN request in a text file: > > $ TYPE SYS$MANAGER:_SHUTDOWN_.XXX; > SHUTDOWN/REBOOT (SHUTDOWN) on requested by at > > > During STARTUP if this file is detected then I can assume that the server was > SHUTDOWN and did not experience a CRASH. If the file is NOT there then the > server CRASHed. $ if p2 .eqs. "REBOOT" $ then $ write ... "REBOOT ..." $ else $ write ... "STANDALONE ..." $ endif ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 15:05:56 -0500 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: REBOOT or SHUTDOWN, how to tell in SYSSHUTDWN.COM Message-ID: Z wrote on 02/04/2005 02:59:40 PM: > John Brandon wrote: > > REBOOT == "@SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN 0 REBOOT NO YES YES YES > REMOVE_NODE,REBOOT_CHECK" > > SHUTDOWN == "@SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN 0 STANDALONE NO YES NO NO > REMOVE_NODE,REBOOT_CHECK" > > > > (Nothing more than the standard REBOOT and SHUTDOWN symbols) > > P2 = REBOOT or STANDALONE > > > > > > In SYS$SYSTEM:SYSHUTDWN.COM I log the SHUTDOWN request in a text file: > > > > $ TYPE SYS$MANAGER:_SHUTDOWN_.XXX; > > SHUTDOWN/REBOOT (SHUTDOWN) on requested by at > > > > > > During STARTUP if this file is detected then I can assume that theserver was > > SHUTDOWN and did not experience a CRASH. If the file is NOT there then the > > server CRASHed. > > $ if p2 .eqs. "REBOOT" > $ then > $ write ... "REBOOT ..." > $ else > $ write ... "STANDALONE ..." > $ endif To paraphrase H. L. Menchen: "For every problem there is a simple solution that probably won't work." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 12:34:59 -0800 From: Z Subject: Re: REBOOT or SHUTDOWN, how to tell in SYSSHUTDWN.COM Message-ID: norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: >>$ if p2 .eqs. "REBOOT" >>$ then >>$ write ... "REBOOT ..." >>$ else >>$ write ... "STANDALONE ..." >>$ endif > To paraphrase H. L. Menchen: "For every problem there is a simple solution > that probably won't work." Did I misread the orig request? Why won't that work? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 16:26:17 -0500 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: REBOOT or SHUTDOWN, how to tell in SYSSHUTDWN.COM Message-ID: Z wrote on 02/04/2005 03:34:59 PM: > norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: > >>$ if p2 .eqs. "REBOOT" > >>$ then > >>$ write ... "REBOOT ..." > >>$ else > >>$ write ... "STANDALONE ..." > >>$ endif > > > To paraphrase H. L. Menchen: "For every problem there is a simple solution > > that probably won't work." > > Did I misread the orig request? I'd guess, yes. > > Why won't that work? I should ask you to go back and reread the thread, but in short, he does not want to edit sys$system:shutdwn.com, so ther is no place to put your code if he uses the symbols he has to invoke shutdown with only the documented parameters. How could you not realize that if the solution was as easy as if...then...else he would not have needed to ask (That's a rhetorical question!)? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 23:08:33 -0500 From: Dave Froble Subject: Re: REBOOT or SHUTDOWN, how to tell in SYSSHUTDWN.COM Message-ID: <420446C1.1060905@tsoft-inc.com> norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: > > > > > > Z wrote on 02/04/2005 03:34:59 PM: > > >>norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: >> >>>>$ if p2 .eqs. "REBOOT" >>>>$ then >>>>$ write ... "REBOOT ..." >>>>$ else >>>>$ write ... "STANDALONE ..." >>>>$ endif >>>> >>>To paraphrase H. L. Menchen: "For every problem there is a simple >>> > solution > >>>that probably won't work." >>> >>Did I misread the orig request? >> > > I'd guess, yes. > >>Why won't that work? >> > > I should ask you to go back and reread the thread, but in short, he does > not want > to edit sys$system:shutdwn.com, so ther is no place to put your code if he > uses > the symbols he has to invoke shutdown with only the documented parameters. > > How could you not realize that if the solution was as easy as > if...then...else > he would not have needed to ask (That's a rhetorical question!)? > > From the earlier posts, I thought it was SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN.COM that he didn't want to change. In fact, this file should NOT be changed. As for SYS$MANAGER:SYSHUTDWN.COM, this is the site specific shutdown file, specifically for such modifications, and is preserved through an upgrade. Caviet, I haven't touched this stuff on my VMS systems for 2 years or more, and am subject to faulty memory. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 14:40:09 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: There goes the volume market. Remind me again.... Message-ID: <1107545337.525d526c839ec1f91777c10468efe27e@teranews> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > Add one more. I just archived it here, too. > It's too important to risk letting it just disappear. That has > happened to way too much already. Same here. Says a lot about the trust people have in HP when customers feel the need to save documents becsuse they know/fear that their vendor will do a 180° and deny ever saying the things they promised earlier. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 14:42:00 -0500 From: "John Smith" Subject: Re: There goes the volume market. Remind me again.... Message-ID: <7cednT5L5ryVTZ7fRVn-tw@igs.net> JF Mezei wrote: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> Add one more. I just archived it here, too. >> It's too important to risk letting it just disappear. That has >> happened to way too much already. > > Same here. > > Says a lot about the trust people have in HP when customers feel the > need to save documents becsuse they know/fear that their vendor will > do a 180° and deny ever saying the things they promised earlier. It's the same reason you memo somebody after an important conversation with what whas discussed and agreed upon, ending with something along the lines of "If you don't feel that this memo fairly and accurately reflects our conversation, let me know." When they don't respond with anything, your memo becomes the definitive record of the conversation/meeting. I've won a couple of lawsuits this way. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 20:46:18 GMT From: Beach Runner Subject: Re: Vendor support for RMS (Attunity) Message-ID: mpchar1@earthlink.net wrote: > Thanks, Larry. I'll try again. > No attunity is middleware and well into VMS/RMS. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 21:41:43 GMT From: Beach Runner Subject: Re: Vendor support for RMS (Attunity) Message-ID: Beach Runner wrote: > > > mpchar1@earthlink.net wrote: > >> Thanks, Larry. I'll try again. >> > > No attunity is middleware and well into VMS/RMS. See http://star-techcentral.com/tech/story.asp?file=/2005/2/4/technology/10098957&sec=technology Attunity is expanding support into Itanium. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2005.071 ************************