INFO-VAX Tue, 11 Jan 2005 Volume 2005 : Issue 22 Contents: Breaking AlphaStation 200 4/166 for parts UK Re: Breaking AlphaStation 200 4/166 for parts UK Re: Breaking AlphaStation 200 4/166 for parts UK Re: Breaking AlphaStation 200 4/166 for parts UK Re: CSWS 2.0 + MultiNet 5.0 - Problem Displaying Large Images Re: DCSP and LPD problem. Re: DCSP and LPD problem. RE: DCSP and LPD problem. Re: DCSP and LPD problem. RE: DCSP and LPD problem. Re: DECwindows window manager problem Re: DECwindows window manager problem Re: Emulation of an Alpha server running OpenVMS Re: Hardware Today: HPC Server Snapshot Re: Hardware Today: HPC Server Snapshot Re: Hardware Today: HPC Server Snapshot Re: Hardware Today: HPC Server Snapshot Re: Hardware Today: HPC Server Snapshot Re: Hardware Today: HPC Server Snapshot Re: Hardware Today: HPC Server Snapshot Re: Has anyone heard if any of our customers have been hurt by the tidal wave i HP and SAP Re: HP and SAP Re: HP and SAP HP World 2005 Call for Speakers Re: Microsot kills XP on Itanic Re: Newbie question: OpenVMS on DEC 5305? Re: Newbie question: OpenVMS on DEC 5305? Re: Newbie question: OpenVMS on DEC 5305? Re: Newbie question: OpenVMS on DEC 5305? Re: OpenVMS.org runs readership survey Re: OT: Display technology at euro stadiums Re: OT: Display technology at euro stadiums Re: Simple EDT or TPU init file Re: Simple EDT or TPU init file Re: Simple EDT or TPU init file Re: Simple EDT or TPU init file Re: Translating errno and vaxc$errno to real error code Re: Translating errno and vaxc$errno to real error code Upgrading beyond Tomcat 4.1.24 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 11:24:28 +0000 From: Tim ffrench-Lynch Subject: Breaking AlphaStation 200 4/166 for parts UK Message-ID: <41E3B76C.C6E9BB00@baesystems.com> Is anyone interested in parts from an Alphastation 200 4/166 in the UK?, the system has :- 64MB memory (probably - it's too late to check now) no graphics card no hard disk poor PSU with failing fan CD-ROM Floppy Processor All boards and internal wiring No screen, keyboard, mouse or external cabling. Not exactly a desirable hobbyist system but if someone can use the memory, CD-ROM or processor then it might be possible to extend or repair some other system. All I'd want is postage and packing costs. It's probably better to reply to the newgroup, but otherwise use timfflATmailDOTcom rather than the work email address that this is posted from as this is a privately owned rather than work system. I'm situated close to Junction 8 of the M1 if anyone wants to avoid postage. I'd be reluctant to post the whole thing or main case but it might be possible. Preference to UK and to hobbyists and obviously none of the parts are guaranteed to work :-) Tim ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 13:10:58 +0100 From: tdc Subject: Re: Breaking AlphaStation 200 4/166 for parts UK Message-ID: Tim ffrench-Lynch wrote: > Is anyone interested in parts from an Alphastation 200 4/166 in the > UK?, the system has :- > 64MB memory (probably - it's too late to check now) > no graphics card > no hard disk > poor PSU with failing fan > CD-ROM > Floppy > Processor > All boards and internal wiring > No screen, keyboard, mouse or external cabling. If there is an OpenVMS supported SCSI and NIC inside and if you are willing to ship it to continental Europe, offer me a price :) Dave ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 13:59:58 +0000 From: John Laird Subject: Re: Breaking AlphaStation 200 4/166 for parts UK Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 13:52:39 +0000, Tim ffrench-Lynch wrote: >tdc wrote: >> If there is an OpenVMS supported SCSI and NIC inside and if you are >> willing to ship it to continental Europe, offer me a price :) > >I'll take a look this evening but I'm pretty sure both are on the >motherboard or machine specific riser cards. I have one on my desk - the SCSI and 10Mb Ethernet capabilities are built-in. You can add a suitable DE500 100Mb card for better networking, but I don't think the machine supports other SCSI options. It's fast-narrow, I think. (But not all that fast...) -- Money doesn't come easy - that's the way it goes! Mail john rather than nospam... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 13:52:39 +0000 From: Tim ffrench-Lynch Subject: Re: Breaking AlphaStation 200 4/166 for parts UK Message-ID: <41E3DA27.5EDE5194@baesystems.com> tdc wrote: > If there is an OpenVMS supported SCSI and NIC inside and if you are > willing to ship it to continental Europe, offer me a price :) I'll take a look this evening but I'm pretty sure both are on the motherboard or machine specific riser cards. Tim ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 09:19:28 -0500 From: "Richard Whalen" Subject: Re: CSWS 2.0 + MultiNet 5.0 - Problem Displaying Large Images Message-ID: I did some basic testing, was able to reproduce his problem, and entered a defect in our bug tracking system. --------------------------- Richard Whalen Process Software "Neil Rieck" wrote in message news:ZYFEd.21906$b64.370566@news20.bellglobal.com... > Now I guess you'll need someone with a Multinet support contract to submit > this to PSC. > > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, > Ontario, Canada. > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html > > "Rich Faust" wrote in message > news:1105161607.318914.156700@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... > >I installed TCPIP V5.4-15 on my system and SWS V2.0 displays images of > > all sizes with no difficulty. The large image files that were giving > > me problems have fixed length 512 byte records. I didn't change any of > > my config files before or after installing TCPIP Services for OpenVMS > > so I can only conclude the problem has something to do with MultiNet > > V5.0 or how I had it configured. > > Rich Faust > > OpenVMS Hobbyist > > Richmond, TX > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 12:31:05 +0100 From: "news.rug.nl" Subject: Re: DCSP and LPD problem. Message-ID: "Paul Anderson" wrote in message = news:100120051152089342%paul.anderson@hp.com... > In article , Fred Zwarts > wrote: >=20 >> In the LPD protocol, the client first sends some control information >> and then it sends the data file. It seems that DCPS, in the control >> information, announces that a 2GB file is to be printed. (Probably, >> because DCPS generates the postscript on the fly and is not able to >> give a proper estimate of the actual data size.) ... >=20 > The LPD RFC is 1179. It states you should send the file size in the > control record, or 0. It can be assumed, then, if the connection = drops > before the 2 GB file is received, that it is an error. I don't know > whether the RFC says what to do when this happens. >=20 > So DCPS is not compliant with the RFC, along with most printers. >=20 I wonder why DCPS does not use 0 instead of 2GB. When sending a 0 size in the control record it would be compliant, isn't it? F.Z. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 12:08:03 -0000 From: "Richard Brodie" Subject: Re: DCSP and LPD problem. Message-ID: "news.rug.nl" wrote in message news:cs0ccj$imu$1@info.service.rug.nl... > I wonder why DCPS does not use 0 instead of 2GB. When sending a 0 size > in the control record it would be compliant, isn't it? Compliant doesn't really mean very much, since RFC 1179 isn't a standards track RFC but rather a description reverse engineered from some antique BSD lpd program. I think on a strict reading of it, no. LPRng servers do support that but warn the behaviour is not portable. Without testing, you aren't going to find out which: I guess that's an argument for making it configurable. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 09:15:37 -0500 From: "Dan Allen" Subject: RE: DCSP and LPD problem. Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: news.rug.nl [mailto:F.Zwarts@KVI.nl] > Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 6:31 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: DCSP and LPD problem. > > > "Paul Anderson" wrote in message > news:100120051152089342%paul.anderson@hp.com... > > In article , Fred Zwarts > > wrote: > > > >> In the LPD protocol, the client first sends some control information > >> and then it sends the data file. It seems that DCPS, in the control > >> information, announces that a 2GB file is to be printed. (Probably, > >> because DCPS generates the postscript on the fly and is not able to > >> give a proper estimate of the actual data size.) > > ... > > > > > The LPD RFC is 1179. It states you should send the file size in the > > control record, or 0. It can be assumed, then, if the connection drops > > before the 2 GB file is received, that it is an error. I don't know > > whether the RFC says what to do when this happens. > > > > So DCPS is not compliant with the RFC, along with most printers. > > > > I wonder why DCPS does not use 0 instead of 2GB. When sending a 0 size > in the control record it would be compliant, isn't it? > > F.Z. I think the original LPD implementations (prior to the RFC ;-) expected a zero length file when the control record contained a zero length. Mine did. How long has DCPS supported LPD style printing and when was RFC 1179 authored? Dan > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 15:38:15 GMT From: Paul Anderson Subject: Re: DCSP and LPD problem. Message-ID: <110120051022240611%paul.anderson@hp.com> In article , news.rug.nl wrote: > I wonder why DCPS does not use 0 instead of 2GB. When sending a 0 > size in the control record it would be compliant, isn't it? It would be compliant, but it also didn't work on a whole bunch of printers. We decided to go with what would work for the most number of printers. In article , Dan Allen wrote: > I think the original LPD implementations (prior to the RFC ;-) > expected a zero length file when the control record contained a zero > length. If the control record has a 0 for file size, LPD expects the job to be terminated with a null byte. This could cause problems with binary PostScript files. > How long has DCPS supported LPD style printing and when was RFC 1179 > authored? DCPS added LPD printing in V2.3 in October 2003. RFC 1179 has an August 1990 date on it. Paul -- Paul Anderson OpenVMS Engineering Hewlett-Packard Company ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 11:24:38 -0500 From: "Dan Allen" Subject: RE: DCSP and LPD problem. Message-ID: > > I think the original LPD implementations (prior to the RFC ;-) > > expected a zero length file when the control record contained a zero > > length. > > If the control record has a 0 for file size, LPD expects the job to be > terminated with a null byte. This could cause problems with binary > PostScript files. > > > How long has DCPS supported LPD style printing and when was RFC 1179 > > authored? > > DCPS added LPD printing in V2.3 in October 2003. RFC 1179 has an > August 1990 date on it. > > Paul > > -- > Paul Anderson > OpenVMS Engineering > Hewlett-Packard Company I don't think binary print streams were supported by the original LPD design, hence the problems Paul describes with various (older?)printers. AFAIK, there was no documentation on the LPD/LPR exchange prior to RFC 1179 other than the UNIX (pick a flavor) source code. As I recollect, the BSD code I used as a model did not handle the zero length case in this fashion. I believe the LPD socket read loop used the length from the control file to count the number of bytes it needed to read. I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time. I do know I jumped through a lot of hoops on the VMS end to pre-process print files (CONV$xxxx IIRC)into STREAM_LF format prior to transmission so I could get an exact byte count for the control file. That was ca. 1985. Not all that long ago ;-) Not sure what that symbiont did with PASSALL - most likely the wrong thing! Dan Dan ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jan 2005 03:06:06 -0800 From: martinkirby12@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: DECwindows window manager problem Message-ID: <1105441566.808875.268090@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> JF Mezei wrote: > martinkirby12@yahoo.co.uk wrote: > > It creates a detached process that executes the DECW$MWM.COM command > > file under LOGINOUT. > > Ah, so if it doesn't create a real process under the username that owns the > display, it doesn't get the user's local settings that have just been saved > there. (eg: no definition of DECW$USER_DEFAULTS, so the app can't find all the > default resource files for MWM). > > When the session manager starts an application with the "detached" attribute, > how does it do it such that the application has the full logical name context > for that user ? > > (I realise this is a mature product on VAX with no more work being done on it, > but it baffles me that such a design wouldn't have been fixed back in the days > when there was work being done. > > > The DECW$MWM and DECW$MWMEX process names are how > > it resolves the problem of starting the new one while the old one > > hasn't yet finished. The old one should go away after a while. > > Since I have to manually STOP/ID the bad MWM process that didn't read my own > resources, I kill both. > > Also, in the session manager menus, there is an option to "Save window > manager". How does that one work ? (It doesn't seem to work :-( > > If I can get that one to work, I could save the new settings, then kill MWM, > and use the session manager to start a good MWM. I couldn't reproduce this problem. It worked fine for me (Alpha V8.2+V1.5, but the relevant sources look like they haven't changed since 1996). I think the issue is why you have a DECW$MWMEX process left. The restart function is implemented as a line: exit (vms_restart (....)); The vms_restart function does: SYS$SETPRN to change process name to DECW$MWMEX SYS$CREPRC to create the new process returns With a bit of code for handling duplicate process names and printing errors out. If the new process has been created but the old one hasn't exitted it must have got hung up during the exit. What state is the DECW$MWMEX process in? Martin Kirby ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 13:11:11 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: DECwindows window manager problem Message-ID: <1105466463.0921bf8f659d376b2a7f89abf4fd6644@teranews> martinkirby12@yahoo.co.uk wrote: > If the new process has been created but the old one hasn't exitted it > must have got hung up during the exit. What state is the DECW$MWMEX > process in? It is in LEF mode, with no image being executed, and with one file opened: VUE$SUBPROCESS_INIT.COM ! (Remember that if the MWM window manager is started from the session manager). A running MWM, as started with the session managers "Window Manager" menu option runs VUE$LIBRARY:VIE$MWM.COM and when that exits, it probably goes back to the session manager for re-use of the process. (On VAX, of course). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 15:52:45 GMT From: "FredK" Subject: Re: Emulation of an Alpha server running OpenVMS Message-ID: "Roger Ivie" wrote in message news:slrncu6hbl.d1f.rivie@Stench.no.domain... > On 2005-01-10, FredK wrote: > > Sparse space requires source level knowledge of either how to do it > > (address/data swizzling) or explicit use of system calls that hide the > > knowledge, perhaps at a performance cost. But the use of sparse space can't > > be handled by the C compiler (for example) or even Macro-32 transparently. > > I'm a bit skeptical of the idea that it can't be handled by a C > compiler, but them I'm not a compiler guy so I don't know for sure. > Since the compiler knows when a datum is being fetched and its size, it > should know what particular swizzling needs to be done. The tricky bit > would be letting the compiler know that accesses through a particular > pointer needed to be swizzled, which could be handled by a pointer type > similar to the PC "near *" and "far *" kludge (sparse char *booger, > maybe?). > Swizzling is not architectural, it is platform specific. There were 3 different swizzle schemes, if we don't count the TurboChannel. So the compiler would need to know not just the target architecture, but the platform it was running on. Then it would need to know which references were targeted to IO space. All this is neatly done by instead having a kernel set of access routines (which pretty much all OS's do have). However, for the sake of performance, many driver writers instead write directly to IO space. On x86, this would not work if say, the access was a pointer to a char. It also would need appropriate memory barriers. It would also probably need correct declaration using volatile. Could C be extended to have a "sparse" attribute? Sure I suppose. It would be messy, since it wasn't even "standard" on the Alpha archictecture. But someone would have needed to convince Microsoft to adopt it. > > So yes. This is what I am saying. Many drivers needed rewriting, or > > reworking for Alpha. But the sources were controlled by the vendors - so > > that meant working with the vendors for Alpha-specific source changes for > > their drivers. > > I was under the impression that *all* drivers needed reworking, at a > minimum to add the appropriate ".JSB_ENTRY" or ".CALL_ENTRY" directives. > You are talking VMS. I am talking NT. The byte/word access for IO was not targeted for VMS, or even UNIX - it was for NT. Getting 3rd party NT vendors to not only build an Alpha-specific driver, but also make them extensively modify their code was the challenge. ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jan 2005 13:23:57 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Hardware Today: HPC Server Snapshot Message-ID: <34i2bdF48vk52U1@individual.net> In article , "Kenneth Farmer" writes: > Hardware Today: HPC Server Snapshot > by: Drew Robb > > ServerWatch: Vast marketing budgets from the likes of Dell, Microsoft, and > IBM ensure the behemoths take much of the server limelight, leaving > high-performance computing (HPC) niche players, such as NEC and Bull, to > receive scant coverage. Even a company like HP, which spends as much on > marketing and public relations as a small country's GDP, hardly seems to > give its AlphaServer line more than a mention. Yet, these platforms have a > lot to offer and shouldn't be automatically bypassed. > This week, we'll take a look at HP's AlphaServers and offerings from NEC and > Bull. We'll examine who's using them, what's new, and what can we expect in > 2005? > > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=05/01/10/9224459 > > > Ah...I read this one so it's real. :) > > > Remember to visit this article a couple of times. We need to maximize > visitor count. Which is why no one with half a brain takes those statistics seriously. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jan 2005 08:07:05 -0600 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: Hardware Today: HPC Server Snapshot Message-ID: In article <34i2bdF48vk52U1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > In article , > "Kenneth Farmer" writes: >> Remember to visit this article a couple of times. We need to maximize >> visitor count. > > Which is why no one with half a brain takes those statistics seriously. That is not an issue. I am sure Ken only plans to present the figures to advertising executives. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 07:48:52 -0700 From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." Subject: Re: Hardware Today: HPC Server Snapshot Message-ID: <41E3E754.1090106@MMaz.com> Bill Gunshannon wrote: >In article , > "Kenneth Farmer" writes: > > >>Hardware Today: HPC Server Snapshot >>by: Drew Robb >> >>ServerWatch: Vast marketing budgets from the likes of Dell, Microsoft, and >>IBM ensure the behemoths take much of the server limelight, leaving >>high-performance computing (HPC) niche players, such as NEC and Bull, to >>receive scant coverage. Even a company like HP, which spends as much on >>marketing and public relations as a small country's GDP, hardly seems to >>give its AlphaServer line more than a mention. Yet, these platforms have a >>lot to offer and shouldn't be automatically bypassed. >>This week, we'll take a look at HP's AlphaServers and offerings from NEC and >>Bull. We'll examine who's using them, what's new, and what can we expect in >>2005? >> >>http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=05/01/10/9224459 >> >> >>Ah...I read this one so it's real. :) >> >> >>Remember to visit this article a couple of times. We need to maximize >>visitor count. >> >> > >Which is why no one with half a brain takes those statistics seriously. > > "Why is HP dumping such a workhorse HPC platform? For one thing, Alpha has always been a relatively high-end system. Those that know it seem to love it, but it has lost ground in the onslaught of less-expensive Wintel and Unix systems. The Intel Itanium 2 processor is now seen as a more viable alternative.So HP is gambling that making OpenVMS available on a more affordable platform will give the operating system, and in effect the server line, a new lease of life." Based on equal performance and throughput, it would be interesting to see if the reasoning of being a more 'viable alternative' because it's a 'more affordable platform' is a present day reality. Barry -- Barry Treahy, Jr E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com Midwest Microwave, Inc. Phone: 480/314-1320 Vice President & CIO FAX: 480/661-7028 ... but it's a DRY HEAT! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 15:49:25 GMT From: "Kenneth Farmer" Subject: Re: Hardware Today: HPC Server Snapshot Message-ID: <9ASEd.9829$hQ6.2089384@twister.southeast.rr.com> "Bill Gunshannon" wrote in message news:34i2bdF48vk52U1@individual.net... > In article , > "Kenneth Farmer" writes: >> Hardware Today: HPC Server Snapshot >> by: Drew Robb >> >> ServerWatch: Vast marketing budgets from the likes of Dell, Microsoft, >> and >> IBM ensure the behemoths take much of the server limelight, leaving >> high-performance computing (HPC) niche players, such as NEC and Bull, to >> receive scant coverage. Even a company like HP, which spends as much on >> marketing and public relations as a small country's GDP, hardly seems to >> give its AlphaServer line more than a mention. Yet, these platforms have >> a >> lot to offer and shouldn't be automatically bypassed. >> This week, we'll take a look at HP's AlphaServers and offerings from NEC >> and >> Bull. We'll examine who's using them, what's new, and what can we expect >> in >> 2005? >> >> http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=05/01/10/9224459 >> >> >> Ah...I read this one so it's real. :) >> >> >> Remember to visit this article a couple of times. We need to maximize >> visitor count. > > Which is why no one with half a brain takes those statistics seriously. > > bill I meant the ServerWatch article, not OpenVMS.org. Have you not read where I previously pointed to these articles by Drew and mentioned how important hit count is for the articles? Drew mentioned to me that these editors take the count seriously, for obvious reasons. They continue to ask him to do related articles because the count has been so good. Stats software these days does a good job or tracking who visits. There are visitor counts and unique visitor counts. Most of these large trade publications have that stuff down to a science. Even I can track that type of information. Ken OpenVMS.org _____________________________________ Kenneth R. Farmer <>< SpyderByte: http://www.SpyderByte.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 15:54:36 GMT From: "Kenneth Farmer" Subject: Re: Hardware Today: HPC Server Snapshot Message-ID: <0FSEd.9830$hQ6.2089313@twister.southeast.rr.com> "Larry Kilgallen" wrote in message news:iHCDxEENH439@eisner.encompasserve.org... > In article <34i2bdF48vk52U1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill > Gunshannon) writes: >> In article , >> "Kenneth Farmer" writes: > >>> Remember to visit this article a couple of times. We need to maximize >>> visitor count. >> >> Which is why no one with half a brain takes those statistics seriously. > > That is not an issue. I am sure Ken only plans to present the figures > to advertising executives. True. The visitor count on my site is used for advertisers. I certainly need visitor count to sell banners. I would like to see people originally get to the article using OpenVMS.org then go back directly to ServerWatch later in the day to read it again. Of course they can feel free to use OpenVMS.org to get back if they wish. Regardless, ServerWatch needs to see the interest in the article via visitor count. Ken OpenVMS.org _____________________________________ Kenneth R. Farmer <>< SpyderByte: http://www.SpyderByte.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 16:09:46 GMT From: "Kenneth Farmer" Subject: Re: Hardware Today: HPC Server Snapshot Message-ID: "Bill Gunshannon" wrote in message news:34i2bdF48vk52U1@individual.net... > In article , > "Kenneth Farmer" writes: >> Hardware Today: HPC Server Snapshot >> by: Drew Robb >> >> Remember to visit this article a couple of times. We need to maximize >> visitor count. > > Which is why no one with half a brain takes those statistics seriously. Exactly are you implying with that statement? Ken OpenVMS.org _____________________________________ Kenneth R. Farmer <>< SpyderByte: http://www.SpyderByte.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 12:38:27 -0500 From: Dave Froble Subject: Re: Hardware Today: HPC Server Snapshot Message-ID: <41E40F13.2010504@tsoft-inc.com> Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > >> In article , >> "Kenneth Farmer" writes: >> >> >>> Hardware Today: HPC Server Snapshot >>> by: Drew Robb >>> >>> ServerWatch: Vast marketing budgets from the likes of Dell, >>> Microsoft, and IBM ensure the behemoths take much of the server >>> limelight, leaving high-performance computing (HPC) niche players, >>> such as NEC and Bull, to receive scant coverage. Even a company like >>> HP, which spends as much on marketing and public relations as a small >>> country's GDP, hardly seems to give its AlphaServer line more than a >>> mention. Yet, these platforms have a lot to offer and shouldn't be >>> automatically bypassed. >>> This week, we'll take a look at HP's AlphaServers and offerings from >>> NEC and Bull. We'll examine who's using them, what's new, and what >>> can we expect in 2005? >>> >>> http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=05/01/10/9224459 >>> >>> >>> Ah...I read this one so it's real. :) >>> >>> >>> Remember to visit this article a couple of times. We need to >>> maximize visitor count. >>> >> >> >> Which is why no one with half a brain takes those statistics seriously. >> >> > "Why is HP dumping such a workhorse HPC platform? For one thing, Alpha > has always been a relatively high-end system. Those that know it seem to > love it, but it has lost ground in the onslaught of less-expensive > Wintel and Unix systems. The Intel Itanium 2 processor is now seen as a > more viable alternative.So HP is gambling that making OpenVMS available > on a more affordable platform will give the operating system, and in > effect the server line, a new lease of life." > > Based on equal performance and throughput, it would be interesting to > see if the reasoning of being a more 'viable alternative' because it's a > 'more affordable platform' is a present day reality. > > > Barry > HP has an interest to present the appearance that itanic is more viable. As far as reality, assuming that Intel is selling the CPUs at a low enough price to allow it to appear to be less expensive, that reality dies as soon as Intel's costs are added to the equation. At the extreme risk of being repetative, Intel could more easily afford to eat the costs of the itanic in the past. With reports of up to a third of x86 server sales now going to Opteron, that particular cash cow isn't yielding as much milk for Intel as in the past. Dave ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jan 2005 08:39:37 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Has anyone heard if any of our customers have been hurt by the tidal wave i Message-ID: JF Mezei wrote: > > Concrete plants like to be near water/port so that they can load the > concrete > into ships for transport. Then what is that concrete plant doing in Laramie, Wyoming? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 06:47:40 -0500 From: "John Smith" Subject: HP and SAP Message-ID: I was flipping through a magazine this moning and came across an ad from SAP which was extolling the benefits of the SAP application has provided to HP in their recent SAP conversion. Seems to me that HP could have easily gone to SAP and said 'We want to run SAP on VMS - make it so'. This would have provided benefits for all concerned - HP, because they would have had a VMS showcase to approach other customers with and it would have cost them nothing (SAP probably would have done it becausee HP's installation was big enought to warrant a VMS version, and that it wasn't on PH-UX would have been inconsequential, had HP would have opened yet another avenue of sucking revenue from Sun, IBM, and any other non-HP platform SAP runs on, - and SAP because they could have tapped into a better high availability market. Basically a free opportunity lost. ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jan 2005 06:46:08 -0800 From: kenneth.randell@verizon.net Subject: Re: HP and SAP Message-ID: <1105454768.895023.174430@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> John Smith wrote: > I was flipping through a magazine this moning and came across an ad from SAP > which was extolling the benefits of the SAP application has provided to HP > in their recent SAP conversion. > Slightly OT but wasn't this SAP conversion publicly blamed some time ago for HP's poor financial performance a couple of quarters ago -- customer orders delayed/messed-up/etc. http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/business/9390231.htm Or was this another SAP conversion??? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 13:18:18 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: HP and SAP Message-ID: <1105466886.5a6aaddce3cce78e9c7c6aa1680b88e2@teranews> John Smith wrote: > > I was flipping through a magazine this moning and came across an ad from SAP > which was extolling the benefits of the SAP application has provided to HP > in their recent SAP conversion. Funny that you went to the "if SAP ran on VMS". To me, my initial reactions was: considering that SAP costed HP a lot of money in lost sales, it is interesting that SAP would dare advertise HP as a customer since they are not exactly a success story for SAP implementation. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 09:38:29 -0800 From: Greg Cagle Subject: HP World 2005 Call for Speakers Message-ID: <10u83ond0dso592@corp.supernews.com> Hello, Interex members and members of the HP community are invited submit a presentation for HP World 2005. The event will be held at Moscone Center in San Francisco, August 14-18, 2005. The presentation submission deadline is January 28, 2005. HP World 2005 will include approximately 250 technical sessions, running August 15-18. On Sunday, August 14 we will offer approximately 15 full-day seminars. Ann Livermore will keynote the event on Tuesday August 15. For more information on HP World 2005 go to: www.hpworld.com Conference tracks will span the full scope of HP’s enterprise technologies. To see a complete listing of tracks, track descriptions and topic requests go to: http://www.hpworld.com/conference/hpworld2005/hpw05_program_07.jsp Session options include: Breakout Sessions (50 min) Tutorials (1hr 50 min) Full-Day Seminars (8 hrs) Hands on Workshops (4 or 8 hrs) Panels (50 min) This year we have added many new speaker benefits. To review these benefits go to: http://www.hpworld.com/conference/hpworld2005/hpw05_speak_05.jsp Submit your proposal by JANUARY 28, 2005 at: http://speaker.hpworld2005.com/hpw05/speaker_login.jsp {http://speaker.hpworld2005.com/hpw05/speaker_login.jsp" } We hope you will consider participating in HP World 2005. Best Regards, Debbie Lawson-Kirkwood HP World 2005 Program Director Greg Cagle HP World 2005 Co-Chair -- Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 20:30:42 +0800 From: prep@prep.synonet.com Subject: Re: Microsot kills XP on Itanic Message-ID: <874qhocfm5.fsf@prep.synonet.com> Nigel Barker writes: > It is Professional for Itanium that is apparently being > retired. Windows Server 2003 in various versions is still supported. Still standing on the trap door would be more acurate I think. For both reasons ;) -- Paul Repacholi 1 Crescent Rd., +61 (08) 9257-1001 Kalamunda. West Australia 6076 comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked. EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 07:38:16 +0100 From: Alex van Denzel Subject: Re: Newbie question: OpenVMS on DEC 5305? Message-ID: <41e37458$0$47635$cd19a363@news.wanadoo.nl> tdc wrote: > Linux is running fine there. Linux comes with its own PALcode in Milo. Otherwise the OS has to choose between the PALcode for NT or for OSF/VMS, if they are available. Unusally the PALcode for OSF/VMS is missing on NT-only boxes. -- Alex. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 11:12:00 +0100 From: tdc Subject: Re: Newbie question: OpenVMS on DEC 5305? Message-ID: Alex van Denzel wrote: > tdc wrote: > >> Linux is running fine there. > > > Linux comes with its own PALcode in Milo. Otherwise the OS has to choose > between the PALcode for NT or for OSF/VMS, if they are available. > Unusally the PALcode for OSF/VMS is missing on NT-only boxes. > > -- > Alex. This machine does have OpenVMS and Digital-Unix PALcode in it. Even linux uses the 'unix' os_type env-var to boot and is booting using aboot, not Milo. I'll post the 'show config' here later today (not before 19:00 GMT+1), but it looks John H. Reinhardt is right with his "scsi incompatibility" post. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 11:18:25 +0100 From: tdc Subject: Re: Newbie question: OpenVMS on DEC 5305? Message-ID: > Dave, > > I have one working with OpenVMS. I think TomC is on the right track > as I had a "stock" 5305 which came with a combo board with dual SCSI > and a DE500. This board will not work under OpenVMS and IIRC produces > the halt error that you describe. What you need to do is remove that > board and replace it with a DE50x or DE60x NIC and one of the VMS > supported SCSI cards -- KZPAA-AA (FNSE), KZPBA-CA (UWSE), KZPBA-CB > (FWD), etc. Any of the DEC DAC960 based RAID cards will work also. > The KZPBA-CA is the QLogic 1020 SCSI board which often can be found on > E-Bay for about $25. Mine also had a Matrox video card which did not > work and I had to swap it with a Number Nine S3 card. I don't think > that is your problem as IIRC OpenVMS would boot with the Matrox, but > nothing showed on the console. I'm a little fuzzy on that. > > If you have any more questions, just let me know. My machine has > been upgraded to have 2GB of memory, a Fibre channel card and a DE602 > dual NIC. It has run OpenVMS 7.3-1 and 7.3-2 without problems. > John H. Reinhardt > Thanks for good news. From this point, it looks it "could" work with some added money. The problem is i'm not from USA and getting stuff from EBay is quite hard for me and the cost of sending it here will be probably higher, than the price of the board :( The CDROM "looks" supported, because it's able to jump to the bootstrap code, so i assume it's able to read 512-b sectors. I'll try to find some supported SCSI controller (have some spare Compaq SmartARRAY 2DH, but I doubt it'll work in it) and NIC card, graphics should be ok (have the same #9 S3 Trio based card as you) Dave ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 11:41:20 +0100 From: tdc Subject: Re: Newbie question: OpenVMS on DEC 5305? Message-ID: fast fingers, forgot to copy :)) http://home.versatel.nl/hvlems/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 01:55:59 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org runs readership survey Message-ID: <1105425938.66836ac741f1c509faa4cf0c56b4d376@teranews> Dave Froble wrote: > >>What! OpenVMS.org doesn't have a humor section? > > Yes it does ...... > > http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/execteam/speeches/fiorina/index.html > > You must be right, because I was laughing too hard to immediately write a reply. OK, I didn't quite get it. On Netscape, it essentially displays as a blank page below the name "Carly Fiorina" (eg: no speeches listed.) validator.w3.org finds 43 mistakes, including invalid/unbalanced table elements. Took a look at the code and there are in fact some speeches listed in there. However, on MOSAIC/VMS, I was able to look at the page and there are quite a lot of speeches. So, I am not quite sure where the humour really is. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 06:41:03 -0500 From: "John Smith" Subject: Re: OT: Display technology at euro stadiums Message-ID: Bill Gunshannon wrote: > In article <41BFF7F0.B7EC5B83@teksavvy.com>, > JF Mezei writes: >> >> I find it interesting that they can scale the displays to such an >> extent that they can horizontally scroll contents across the whole >> length of the display. > > That's no trick. Somewhere around here I still have a cute program > that had a plane towing a message banner that could be made to fly > around the room smoothly passing from one workstation display to > another. A friend of mine was building and selling similar 'displays' on multiple screens for public space in office buildings 20 years ago, using custom hardware back then. He wrote his software in Forth. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 13:16:23 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: OT: Display technology at euro stadiums Message-ID: <1105466771.57c188d94cde53f308d349554e832d47@teranews> John Smith wrote: > A friend of mine was building and selling similar 'displays' on multiple > screens for public space in office buildings 20 years ago, using custom > hardware back then. He wrote his software in Forth. These boards are scaled to go around the football field. Not just a few TV sets stacked on top of each other :-) More importantly, these boards are built to resist the footbal game. If Canada still had hockey, would you replace the wooden boards around the rink with LCD screens ? ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jan 2005 04:12:44 -0800 From: "Galen" Subject: Re: Simple EDT or TPU init file Message-ID: <1105445564.692292.278230@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Bob Koehler wrote: > In article , kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) writes: > > Well, lets see. Over time I've used the keystrokes in TECO, the > keypad in EDT, the keystrokes in SOS, the keypad in KED, the keypad > in WPS, the sample EVE keypad for VT100 that let you do the > inverted-T arrow keypad on the numeric keypad. My own completely > homegrown keypad for EVE. The keystrokes in vi. The keystrokes > in emacs. The keystrokes in Alpha (a Mac editor) ... > > You know you're comfortable in a heterogenous environment when you > can work with vi editor window, emacs window, and EVE editor window > on the same X terminal simultaneously. > > And that's real life. Let's not forget pico... And does anyone else remember Control Data Corp's FSE (Full Screen Editor)? It was truly unlike any other screen editor I've ever used. We ran it at Lockheed Martin on a number of CDC's Cyber mainframes under the NOS and NOS/VE operating systems. When you pressed function or keypad keys it tended to leave a garbage character on the screen. You then refreshed the screen to get rid of it. Another really odd screen editor that we had back then, on an old PDP-11 pwb/Unix system, was called the Rand editor (re). We generally ran it on some huge clunky synchronous terminals with a whole raft of special function keys that were used by re. ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jan 2005 07:28:47 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Simple EDT or TPU init file Message-ID: In article , Rob Brown writes: > On Mon, 10 Jan 2005, Bob Koehler wrote: > >> System table logicals I can fix only because >> I _am_ the system manager. > > But you can override them with with your own /JOB logical name. Why should I have to use up my JTQUOTA undoing what a system manager has done to me? The system manager should make sure that the system is stable and reliable, not go dictating his/her editor preferences on others. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 15:02:30 GMT From: Rob Brown Subject: Re: Simple EDT or TPU init file Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Jan 2005, Bob Koehler wrote: > In article , Rob Brown writes: >> On Mon, 10 Jan 2005, Bob Koehler wrote: >> >>> System table logicals I can fix only because >>> I _am_ the system manager. >> >> But you can override them with with your own /JOB logical name. > > Why should I have to use up my JTQUOTA undoing what a system > manager has done to me? I'll give you some more JTQUOTA so that my other untrainable users can have the EDT keyboard. > The system manager should make sure that the system is stable and > reliable, not go dictating his/her editor preferences on others. The other job of the system manager is to make sure that untrainable users like me and you and others can use the system in the way that they are accustomed to. ;-) -- Rob Brown b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o m G. Michaels Consulting Ltd. (866)438-2101 (voice) toll free! Edmonton (780)438-9343 (voice) (780)437-3367 (FAX) http://gmcl.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 13:25:20 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Simple EDT or TPU init file Message-ID: <1105467311.e220eeab47f47b0dd45737cf03e9bbd3@teranews> Bob Koehler wrote: > The system manager should make sure that the system is stable and > reliable, not go dictating his/her editor preferences on others. "Sorry, we don't support older editors, we only support TPU, hence we make this as default for all users". If out of a thousand users, you have Bob who wants EDT and a certain Larry who wants Teco, should the 998 other users' life be made more complex because you don't want to see default settings ? And if 998 users are acccesing this through an Xwindows system, then they will want TPU because it has an Xwindow interface which neither EDT nor Teco have. (Think university environment with vast majority of users young students and just a couple of older mature persons using VMS). However, if your user populatio is truly varied and mature enough to have started on VMS before TPU came along, then you probably don't want to define any standard default edtor setup. ------------------------------ Date: 10 Jan 2005 23:51:32 -0800 From: dooleys@snowy.net.au Subject: Re: Translating errno and vaxc$errno to real error code Message-ID: <1105429892.658892.319950@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> JBloggs@acme.com wrote: > On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 05:44:54 -0500, JF Mezei > wrote: > > >VAX VMS 7.2 TCPIP Services 5.3-2 > > > >When I try to send a long message (about 600k) through the SMTP server from my > >mac to the internet, I almost consistently get: > > > >smtp_sender_close shutdown R0 status = -1, errno = 54, vaxc$errno = 8472 > > > >(The smtp software then proceeds to lose the msssage, even though the file > >remains on the system in an unusable state. > > > >Question: how does one go about translating the above error messages into real > >VMS messages to have some clue on why this problem arises ? > > the status == -1, might be the C RTL's EVMSERR > **************************************** > SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DECC$RTLDEF.TLB;1 > ERRNO > #define EVMSERR 65535 /* error for non-translatable VMS > errors */ > > fprintf( > stderr > ,"Error text, errno==54: <%s>\n" > ,strerror(54) > ); > fprintf( > stderr > ,"Error text, vaxc$errno==8472: <%s>\n" > ,strerror(EVMSERR,8472) > ); > > > Error text, errno==54: > Error text, vaxc$errno==8472: > > $ write sys$output f$mess( 8472 ) > %SYSTEM-W-TOOMANYREDS, too many redirects > > $ exit 8472 > $ help/mess > TOOMANYREDS, too many redirects > Facility: SYSTEM, System Services > Explanation: This call is redirected more than eight times. > User Action: Modify your program so that it performs fewer > levels of call redirection. > > That's perhaps no help at all, though; > no idea what "too many redirects" means in the > context in the of the SMTP server, thought > > Maybe look at repeated "$pipe netstat -n | sear sys$pipe tcp" > while send is in progress. > > Does this happen reagardless of destination? I know this isn't a problem on the vms server, but on the "other" one, so I enabled smtp logging and got this after the DATA statement. Do the error numbers have any meaning? Phil send buf=.\d\a recv buf=421 4.1.0 Dropping connection due to an error on this server\d\a send buf=QUIT\d\a smtp_sender_close shutdown R0 status = -1, errno = 22, vaxc$errno = 20 All gateways tried without success. send buf= smtp_sender_close sclose R0 status = -1, errno = 9, vaxc$errno = 3506252 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 08:09:41 +0000 From: David B Sneddon - bigpond Subject: Re: Translating errno and vaxc$errno to real error code Message-ID: <41E389C5.50607@bigpond.com> dooleys@snowy.net.au mentioned in passing: > I know this isn't a problem on the vms server, but on the "other" one, > so I enabled smtp logging and got this after the DATA statement. > Do the error numbers have any meaning? > Phil > > send buf=.\d\a > recv buf=421 4.1.0 Dropping connection due to an error on this > server\d\a > send buf=QUIT\d\a > smtp_sender_close shutdown R0 status = -1, errno = 22, vaxc$errno = 20 > All gateways tried without success. > send buf= > smtp_sender_close sclose R0 status = -1, errno = 9, vaxc$errno = > 3506252 $ exit 20 %SYSTEM-F-BADPARAM, bad parameter value $ set message sys$message:decc$msg $ exit 3506252 %C-F-EBADF, bad file number Regards, Dave -- David B Sneddon (dbs) VMS Systems Programmer dbsneddon@bigpond.com Sneddo's quick guide ... http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/ DBS freeware http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 15:11:50 -0000 From: "Andoni" Subject: Upgrading beyond Tomcat 4.1.24 Message-ID: Hello all, I am looking at my setup on VMS and at the latest versions of Tomcat / Apache / JBoss and seeing a major mismatch in potential. At the moment I am running the latest version of CSWS_JAVA on VMS which is Tomcat 4.1.24 but this does not give me any of the benefits of Tomcat 5. It is my understanding from what I have heard that some people have managed to get later versions of Tomcat working on VMS. Is there much work involved in this? I have tried to upgrade to version 4.1.31 which I thought would be relatively problem free but this would not work for me as soon as it tried to compile a .jsp file. Do any of you know if HP make any modifications to bootstrap.jar or any of the other .jar files when putting live their version of Tomcat 4.1.24 or was their port only about writing the .com files. If you have any tips about upgrading specially Tomcat servers I would be very appreciative. Kind regards, Andoni. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2005.022 ************************