INFO-VAX Sat, 08 Jan 2005 Volume 2005 : Issue 16 Contents: Re: Basic virtual memory question Re: Basic virtual memory question DECwindows window manager problem Re: InfoServer scribe/CD-R keys ever surface? Re: InfoServer scribe/CD-R keys ever surface? Re: Laptop hard disk upgrade Re: Merry Christmas & Happy New Year Re: MOSAIC questions (mime types) Re: Q: How to have SEARCH match a "null" line Re: Q: How to have SEARCH match a "null" line Re: Q: How to have SEARCH match a "null" line Real Election Reform Re: Samsung! Re: Samsung! Re: Simple EDT or TPU init file Re: Sun shocka - take 9 Re: Sun shocka - take 9 TCPIP SMTP definite problem sending large messages Re: VMS ready laser printer? Re: VMS ready laser printer? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 8 Jan 2005 07:24:48 GMT From: "Dave Weatherall" Subject: Re: Basic virtual memory question Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 05:32:54 UTC, "Hein RMS van den Heuvel" wrote: > > "Rich Alderson" wrote in message > news:mddhdlsr9bu.fsf@panix5.panix.com... > > JF Mezei writes: > > > > > What prevents me from giving a 200 meg PGFILQUO to a username and have a > > > process created that then does a MALLOC of 200 megabytes on a 16 meg > Microvax > > > II ? > > > > Only your innate good taste... > > LOL > > John Reagan wrote: > "Intelligence. :-) > As long as you have a large enough page file and a good book to read, > you can listen to your system page its brains out. It should work however." > > LOL > > But... In the replies I have read on the topic I seem to be missing the > distinction between virtual memory address space and instantiated memory. > That MALLOC might perform reasonably depending on implemenation details. Now > if you had suggest CALLOC, now that would hurt. > > I mean, it could just be just fine application design. You know, say 200 > byte member records for a town band with 100 members stored in a simple > array indexed by their 7 digit local phone number. So you are only going to > touch 100 pages or so, but you need space for 200MB. Perfectly fine! :-). > Ok, I jest some, but the is very powerful to not to have to worry about > storing dense data, but to be able to be very sparse when and where > appropriate. Hein if that was a subtle way of saying "let VMS take the strain', I couldn't agree more :-) It's why I love the Virtual Memory System OS. -- Cheers - Dave W. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 11:59:55 GMT From: Beach Runner Subject: Re: Basic virtual memory question Message-ID: <%WPDd.183566$8G4.125021@tornado.tampabay.rr.com> John Reagan wrote: > Beach Runner wrote: > >> The size of page file quota has a limit in physical space. I don't >> remember the exact size at this second. Virtual page count has been >> made obsolete. >> >> If Working sets grow larger than page file quota, the process will crash. >> This is common in sorts. >> > > Not working set, virtual memory limit. Your working set quota and page > file quota aren't really related. > > If you exceed your page file quota, I wouldn't say "crash". You might > get a PGFILQUO exceeded message or you might just get an ACCVIO when you > try to allocate more stack but you don't have enough page file quota to > back it up. If you can make a process "crash" (ie, disappear), then > you've found a bug that you should report. > > Yes, if a working set grows larger than pagefilequota, (common during sorts) the process crashes. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 04:45:25 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: DECwindows window manager problem Message-ID: <1105176920.4b7d68860e94e9f81739259b1cc2e27a@teranews> In the DECWindows MWM window manager menu, I change border colours. I then choose "apply options" and it prom,pst me to confirm I need to restart the window manager. Window manager restarts However, instead of using the settings from decw$user_defaults, it uses only those in decw$system_defaults. If I STOP/ID the DECW$MWM process, and then use the "Window Manager" menu option from the session manager, the window manager starts and uses my own settings. Is this normal/documented behaviour ? What is interesting is that when from the window manager menu, i choose RESTART or APPLY OPTIONS, it seems to have 2 processes: DECW$MWM and DECW$MWMEX. What does a "restart" operation involve ? Is this done though a command procedure or through the executable image which creates a clone of itself as a detached process before dying ? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 14:19:11 +0100 From: Alex van Denzel Subject: Re: InfoServer scribe/CD-R keys ever surface? Message-ID: <41dfddcf$0$42375$cd19a363@news.wanadoo.nl> jordan@ccs4vms.com wrote: > Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > > > [...] InfoServer tape / CD-R functions [...] > > > [...] There was an expectation that the licenses would be released to > freeware, but although permission was apparently obtained, [...] How does licensing work for InfoServer 150's anyway? The reason is, I own one. But I have (mistakenly thinking it was more like a VAX than it actually was) destroyed the harddrive contents, so it is unusable. Am I in my right to use the machine, when I manage to restore the harddrive, I mean, does the InfoServer in itself constitute a "single user" or "N-user" license, like HP9000 machines, or do I need a separate license? I'm willing to believe that additional options, like the Tape and CD-R functions require an additional license. Oh, and can someone maybe help me to a harddrive image? -- Alex. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 14:24:18 +0000 (UTC) From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: InfoServer scribe/CD-R keys ever surface? Message-ID: In article <41dfddcf$0$42375$cd19a363@news.wanadoo.nl>, Alex van Denzel writes: >Am I in my right to use the machine, when I manage to restore the >harddrive, I mean, does the InfoServer in itself constitute a "single >user" or "N-user" license, like HP9000 machines, or do I need a separate >license? AFAIK, the license is with the machine. So no need to proof that to the software. Install the basesoftware from CD to harddisk and you're done. There are no interactive users on an InfoServer and the max connections are configurable per service. I don't think it is a license issue. >I'm willing to believe that additional options, like the Tape and CD-R >functions require an additional license. Yup. And this was done with additional "license" CDs which look empty for a directory tool but provide the required pieces for the Infoserver to enable the functionality (when once used with "UPDATE FUNCTIONS" from it). >Oh, and can someone maybe help me to a harddrive image? The CD2 (or sometimes/maybe CD1) of the VMS ConDist CDs was bootable for an infoserver (or at least could be used to upgrade with "UPDATE SYSTEM") -- Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER Network and OpenVMS system specialist E-mail peter@langstoeger.at A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 10:36:23 -0500 From: "John Smith" Subject: Re: Laptop hard disk upgrade Message-ID: check your mail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 11:13:45 +0100 From: Didier Morandi Subject: Re: Merry Christmas & Happy New Year Message-ID: <41dfb25a$0$22728$636a15ce@news.free.fr> JF Mezei wrote: > Subject says it all. May this season bring you lots of joy, lots of good food, > celebration with family and friends and some happy thoughts about VMS :-) To you too, and to all my VMS friends too. D. -- ~ L'hopital du logiciel ~ www.softwarehospital.org 190 avenue St Exupéry, 31400 Toulouse France Phone: +33(0)5 6120 7761 GSM: +33(0)6 7983 6418 ------------------------------ Date: 8 Jan 2005 04:57:20 EST From: cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (George Cook) Subject: Re: MOSAIC questions (mime types) Message-ID: In article <1105048680.affe62f43085ae45366fa6a529ef767c@teranews>, JF Mezei writes: > Does anyone know how I could get MOSAIC to accept certain mime types as text > and just display the source ? 1. Create an entry for each mime type in the file "MAILCAP." Set the command part of each entry to "mosaic-internal-present". or 2. Add an additional HTSetConversion call for each mime type to the file HTINIT.C in [.LIBWWW2]. For example: HTSetConversion("text/plain", "www/present", HTPlainPresent, 1.0, 0.0, 0.0); where 'text/plain' is replaced with the desired type. I am not currently located where I can test the above, but from looking at the code I believe either will do what you want. > Does MOSAIC have the ability to handle "plug ins" that can be written to > handle new mime types ? No, but a "MAILCAP." file can be used to define commands to execute for new types. Note that Mosaic does not provide a "MAILCAP." file, but I believe it will properly handle a "standard" format one. See the Mosaic readme for where to place it. George Cook WVNET ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 12:49:21 +0000 (UTC) From: Graham Burley Subject: Re: Q: How to have SEARCH match a "null" line Message-ID: <41DFD6B3.1C8A0981@encompasserve-or-this.org> Ken Fairfield wrote: > > It looks like I need to do two SEARCHs to accomplish what I'm > after, or READ the file after the search and write it back out > after skipping the empty line. Maybe SORT is the right tool here: $ sort/spec=sys$input sysuaf.lis a.a /field=(name=b1, pos:1, siz:1) /field=(name=username, pos:22, siz:15) /field=(name=privs, pos:60, siz:6) /cond=(name=junk, test=((username eq "Username ") or (b1 eq ""))) /cond=(name=normal, test=(privs eq "Normal")) /omit=(cond=junk) /omit=(cond=normal) /key=username And if you're only interested in a couple of fields you could add the following so the output contains just the Username and Privs: /data=username /data=privs ------------------------------ Date: 8 Jan 2005 07:10:57 -0600 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: Q: How to have SEARCH match a "null" line Message-ID: <9b5i6zhgvxzr@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article , lewis@OMEGA.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis) writes: > Ken Fairfield writes in article dated Fri, 07 Jan 2005 14:50:25 -0800: >>$ SEARCH SYSUAF.LIS str1,str2/Match=NOR/Out=output-file > >>It looks like I need to do two SEARCHs to accomplish what I'm >>after, or READ the file after the search and write it back out >>after skipping the empty line. > > $ pipe SEARCH SYSUAF.LIS str1,str2/Match=NOR | SEARCH SYS$INPUT: ""/key=(pos:1,siz:1) Yes, that is an example of possible syntax for performing two SEARCHs. My guess is that Ken was concerned about CPU time rather than wear and tear on the carriage return key :-) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 10:51:50 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Q: How to have SEARCH match a "null" line Message-ID: <41E00FA5.17320025@comcast.net> Graham Burley wrote: > > Ken Fairfield wrote: > > > > > It looks like I need to do two SEARCHs to accomplish what I'm > > after, or READ the file after the search and write it back out > > after skipping the empty line. > > Maybe SORT is the right tool here: > > $ sort/spec=sys$input sysuaf.lis a.a > /field=(name=b1, pos:1, siz:1) > /field=(name=username, pos:22, siz:15) > /field=(name=privs, pos:60, siz:6) > /cond=(name=junk, test=((username eq "Username ") or (b1 eq ""))) > /cond=(name=normal, test=(privs eq "Normal")) > /omit=(cond=junk) > /omit=(cond=normal) > /key=username > > And if you're only interested in a couple of fields you could add > the following so the output contains just the Username and Privs: > > /data=username > /data=privs Yeah! I used /SPECIFICATION for the "first" time recently at work: I needed to extract stuff from a Classic Radnet system control file into a format that DCL could use (V7.3, still has the "short strings" limitation). Great stuff, but a bit obscure. Opportunity for improved documentation. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Coming soon: Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 21:42:37 -0800 From: "D Flint" Subject: Real Election Reform Message-ID: <_tadnUZz77dzi33cRVn-ow@comcast.com> What do you think about this and have you seen this popular site before? This was taken from a web site http://www.afvr.org How can we safeguard the integrity of each vote? Today we have technology that protects our financial systems, military weapon systems and national intelligent organizations. These proven systems can be combined in a way to issue serialized equipment to authorize personnel for the dates and hours needed. Each would have their own level of clearance to perform the tasks they are responsible for. Each action would be recorded and verified with a higher levels of network authority and again, only available during the hours and dates needed. Ballots would only be printed after the voter has cast their vote but before they leave the booth. If the voter made a mistake he could put the printed ballot into the booth's scanner for correction. All ballots scanned at the booth would go into a shredder and the voter could then correct his ballot on the screen and reprint his ballots. Once the voter accepts the printed ballot he submits his vote on the screen and takes the two ballots to the depository. So two computer generated, serialized and scanner perfect receipts of the completed ballot are printed.* One for the voter and one for the public record. This would eliminate all the extra ballots that could be used for unauthorized voting as well as any question of voter intent. Each piece of equipment involved in the issuing of the receipt would be linked to the serial# of that ballot and an electronic document would be generated that exactly matched the two printed receipts. So the voter themselves has validate the printed ballots, keeping one for themselves, while the other electronic time-stamped document is deposited into an optical scanner used as a secure depository. This second scanned count which should always match the electronic count. This paper ballot could also be used for recounts if needed. The voter could use the receipt to inquire about their vote in the future. The stuffing of the ballot box or "finding ballots" would be eliminated. With this system, if you find a ballot, you have to find the voter that cast that ballot too. This is not so in any of the current systems in place today nor have we ever heard such a system ever proposed. http://www.afvr.org ------------------------------ Date: 8 Jan 2005 07:57:28 -0600 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) Subject: Re: Samsung! Message-ID: In article <41DF5205.A8E62AC7@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: > I wonder if HP can fall back on Samsung to keep building Alpha CPUs > until the Itanic is raised and put to rights... Why fall back. Isn't IBM building the EV7x? Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -- Benjamin Franklin Historical Review of Pennsylvania. 1759 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 10:45:13 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Samsung! Message-ID: <41E00E19.AA83AE@comcast.net> Bob Kaplow wrote: > > In article <41DF5205.A8E62AC7@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: > > I wonder if HP can fall back on Samsung to keep building Alpha CPUs > > until the Itanic is raised and put to rights... > > Why fall back. Isn't IBM building the EV7x? If Itanic cannot be salvaged, does IBM have what it would take to continue Alpha until VMS completes the X86-64 port that would then be needed to save VMS? -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Coming soon: Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page ------------------------------ Date: 8 Jan 2005 07:54:17 -0600 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) Subject: Re: Simple EDT or TPU init file Message-ID: In article , "Neil Rieck" writes: > Hey, I've committed the EDT keystrokes to memory so long ago that it is > almost impossible to learn anything new :-) Ditto. I've been using the same keypad for editing since about 1977 on my Heathkit H11 running RT-11 and KED. Then EDT on RSX, then EDT on VMS and now TPU on VMS. I made the switch from EDT to TPU back in 1993 and barely ever noticed a difference. While I'm sure there is a way to do it, the only thing I still use EDT for is to replace multiple in a file with one (or two). And I use TECO to fix files that were FTPed in binary instead of ASCII. Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -- Benjamin Franklin Historical Review of Pennsylvania. 1759 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 10:38:32 -0500 From: "John Smith" Subject: Re: Sun shocka - take 9 Message-ID: Rob Young wrote: > In article , "Jack Peacock" > writes: > >> it's for help in converting from VMS, not to VMS. (Interesting that >> Sun isn't far behind VMS in the perception of being a legacy, phase >> it out, system, at least with the people I met.) > > Really? > > Shocker. News At 11. > > Sun has been in major decline for 3 years now (1), where have you > been? > It is easy to move from one Eunuchs to another, it > isn't a surprise that Sun is setting (that and Linux/Windows). All the more reason to market VMS to "lock-in" new customers who get hooked on VMS reliability and features. ------------------------------ Date: 8 Jan 2005 10:28:35 -0600 From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) Subject: Re: Sun shocka - take 9 Message-ID: In article <1105157930.51e316e2181df978f4b4dea0862bf273@teranews>, JF Mezei writes: > Rob Young wrote: >> Sun has been in major decline for 3 years now (1), where have you been? > > New sales may have been hurt but the .com bomb, but one important metric is > installed base. They were an 18 Billion dollar company fiscal year ended June 2001. Today they are a 11 Billion (plus) dollar company. There are a lot of ways you can dress up and talk up a company and Scotty is an absolute master. But reality sets in, stock takes a tumble, etc., etc. Next. Rob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 04:39:40 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: TCPIP SMTP definite problem sending large messages Message-ID: <1105176580.42acb6b542ec19fcdbca586a038e8a31@teranews> VAX VMS 7.2, TCPIP Services 5.3 ECO 2. If I send emails that contain attachements through my TCPIP Services SMTP server with the TCPIP$SMTP_LOG_LEVEL set to 2, they fail with: 8-JAN-2005 03:50:36.41: next open file _$2$DKA200:[SYS0.TCPIP$SMTP]050107172618 95_TCPIP$SMTP-20601205.TCPIP_BIKE;1(75) smtp_sender_close shutdown R0 status = -1, errno = 54, vaxc$errno = 8412 Printing debug_level 2, Domains and recipients: Domain: domain.com.au Recipient address: Domain part: domain.com.au Local part: user Address Status: Not done, not delivered. (Requeued) 8412 is: %SYSTEM-F-CONNECFAIL, connect to network object timed-out or failed. If I check the system while the message is being sent, it indicates a connection to the correct remote system. ----------------- Now, if I set TCPIP$SMTP_LOG_LEVEL to 5 , messages consistently get delivered sucessfuly. (and generate a huge log file and lots of disk activity) For example, send a .JPG image, it fails and gets requeued. I STOP MAIL, START MAIL after having set the logical to "5" and when the requeud job executes, it get delivered. No problems with small messages. -------------------------- Since this runs as a symbiont, it is a bit harder to figure out how quotas etc apply. The symbiont runs under SYSTEm. But when it starts to deliver a message, does that run under the username of the queue entry (such as TCPIP$SMTP), or does it run under "SYSTEM" ? Since increasing loging solves the problem, it makes it hard to debug the problem that occurs with normal logging levels. So I guess I now have to do a TCPTRACE of the link to see what really goes on. ------------------------------ Date: 8 Jan 2005 07:47:23 -0600 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) Subject: Re: VMS ready laser printer? Message-ID: In article , JBloggs@acme.com writes: > On 6 Jan 2005 13:07:22 -0600, kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob > Kaplow) wrote: > >>I'm looking for an INEXPENSIVE b/w laser printer for connecting to my home >>office network. Everything in the mass market stores these days seems to be >>PC/USB only unless you buy an adapter. I want something that my VMS systems >>can use. Something that understands PCL and maybe even PostScript? Something >>with an ethernet port included. >> >>What's the current equivalent of the old standard Laserjet III / IV with >>built in JetDirect? And it doesn't have to be from HP! >> >>BTW, has VMS integrated HP Laserjet support yet so you don't have to roll >>your own forms libraries for "standard" HP printers? > > What's your budget? Like so many other things, no specific budget, but less $$$ is better than more $$$. > I spent some $$$ for a HP4000TN (w/ JetDirect card) > some eight years ago. Froogle suggests you might get one > nowadays for ~$600-$300+. probably without toner cartridge. I've actually thought about checking the used / reconditioned market for something like this. Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -- Benjamin Franklin Historical Review of Pennsylvania. 1759 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 16:15:16 GMT From: Jack Patteeuw Subject: Re: VMS ready laser printer? Message-ID: Paul Anderson knows what he is talking about. Go Postscript. Don't waste your time on PCL. DCPS is one of those wonderful pieces of VMS that "just works" ! We use it on dozens of LJ, by hundreds of users, everyday. Check the compatibility list in DCPS and then hunt down a used LaserJet with builtin JetDirect (ethernet). I would only buy from a "reputable" source, that gives at least a 90 day warranty. Ask if all feed rollers have been replaced. jp Bob Kaplow wrote: > I'm looking for an INEXPENSIVE b/w laser printer for connecting to my home > office network. Everything in the mass market stores these days seems to be > PC/USB only unless you buy an adapter. I want something that my VMS systems > can use. Something that understands PCL and maybe even PostScript? Something > with an ethernet port included. > > What's the current equivalent of the old standard Laserjet III / IV with > built in JetDirect? And it doesn't have to be from HP! > > BTW, has VMS integrated HP Laserjet support yet so you don't have to roll > your own forms libraries for "standard" HP printers? > > > Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" > >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< > Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf > www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org > > Homeland Security Administration: The Gestapo of the 21st Century ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2005.016 ************************