INFO-VAX Sat, 08 Jan 2005 Volume 2005 : Issue 15 Contents: Anyone have Sybase V10 'cpre' for OpenVMS Alpha? Re: Basic virtual memory question Re: Basic virtual memory question Re: Basic virtual memory question Re: Basic virtual memory question Re: Basic virtual memory question Re: Basic virtual memory question Re: Basic virtual memory question Re: Basic virtual memory question Re: Basic virtual memory question Re: Basic virtual memory question Re: Basic virtual memory question Re: Basic virtual memory question Re: Basic virtual memory question Re: Basic virtual memory question Re: Basic virtual memory question Re: Basic virtual memory question Re: CSWS 2.0 + MultiNet 5.0 - Problem Displaying Large Images Re: Help - SYSUAF and $SETUAI on UAI$_USER_DATA field Re: Help - SYSUAF and $SETUAI on UAI$_USER_DATA field Here is $50 for signing up free Re: How to have SEARCH match a "null" line Re: HP/Linux Tivo replacement Re: HP/Linux Tivo replacement Re: HP/Linux Tivo replacement Re: Mark Gorham interview in Interex's HP World Magazine RE: Mark Gorham interview in Interex's HP World Magazine Re: Mark Gorham interview in Interex's HP World Magazine OT: Laptop hard disk upgrade Q: How to have SEARCH match a "null" line Re: Q: How to have SEARCH match a "null" line Re: Q: How to have SEARCH match a "null" line Re: Samsung! Re: Samsung! Re: Simple EDT or TPU init file Re: Simple EDT or TPU init file Re: Simple EDT or TPU init file Re: Simple EDT or TPU init file Sun shocka - take 9 Re: Sun shocka - take 9 Re: VMS ready laser printer? Re: VMS ready laser printer? Re: VMS ready laser printer? Re: VMS ready laser printer? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 21:49:47 -0000 From: wspencer@ap.dontspamme.org (Warren Spencer) Subject: Anyone have Sybase V10 'cpre' for OpenVMS Alpha? Message-ID: <95D7AF11Cwspenceraporg@216.168.3.30> Hi Folks, I'm in historical mode here, trying to find a copy of Sybase's C precompiler, of Version 10 vintage, for OpenVMS Alpha. We have the other client-side files installed (dblib, etc), but for some reason didn't install the precompiler way back when. Sadly, we cannot find a copy of the original media, and Sybase Corp themselves seems to be struggling with this request. Soooo, would anyone have a copy of the "cpre" executable for this platform? If so, please contact me at the enclosed address (minus the ".dontspamme") or respond to this newgroup. Many thanks ! ws -- Warren Spencer Senior Software Engineer The Associated Press ------------------------------ Date: 7 Jan 2005 13:22:47 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Basic virtual memory question Message-ID: <9uvxS3QTbl4c@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <1105122665.245feb03fda7a96ead9c9055ba54b402@teranews>, JF Mezei writes: Generally "memory" _is_ RAM, _not_ disk space, in the discussion of virtual vs. physical memory. This sometimes causes confusion for folks used to thinking of disk storage as "memory", confusion which increases with respect to virtual memory OS which use disk space to allow large virtual memory to be allocated. > OK, I browsed through the VAX/VMS internals book. But I couldn't find an easy > answer to an age long question I have had about VMS. > > On a conventional MAC, one had a very simple memory management config: You > told the MAC how much virtual memory it should have, and it would create a > page file that big. Then, with each imager file (application), you configured > how much virtual memory it was allowed to take. > > On VMS, the way I understand it, a process can allocate memory until it has > used up all its pagefile quota and its working can't be grown anymore. Is that > correct ? Per-process limits are in the UAF. A process starts each image with WSDEF. It can demand up to WSQUOTA. Under normal conditions it can borrow up to WSEXT. Page file allocation is limitted by the page file quota, WSQUOTA limits the working set. There are lots of things that can be in th working set that will never need to be paged out and therefor don't need page file quota, like read-only pages from on disk image files. When the UAF is not appropriate, per-process limits come from SYSGEN PQL parameters. > At the VMS level, are there SYSGEN parameters to tell the OS that it has over > 100 megs of virtual address space ? (100 megs page file + however physical > memory can be used as VIRTUALPAGES). At the SYSGEN level things are limited by VIRTUALPAGECNT and WSMAX. IIRC there are two parameters because some things count against VIRTUALPAGECNT that are not a part of the working set and do not count against WSMAX. (I don't have my internals manual handy, I might be remembering that backward.) > Or does VMS create a virtual memory page table for each process based on how > much pagfilquo and wsextent the process can potentially have ? IIRC the process page table is sized at process creation according to VIRTUALPAGECNT. > > From what I can gather, the SYSGEN parameters seem to split physical memory > between non pageable memory and pageable memory (NPAGEDYN and VIRTUALPAGES), > with soem other parameters probably taking up some physical memory apart from > NPAGEDYN and VIRTUALPAGES (such as SPTREQ I think). PAGEDYN and NPAGEDYN limit kernel memory pools, not process memory. Lots of kernel and per-process things take up memory and are limited via a variety of SYSGEN parameters. > Is there a simple list of SYSGEN parameters that, when added up, equal to the > physical memory on that machine ? No. There is a parameter PHYSICALPAGES which can be set to prevent VMS from mapping pages that look like RAM but are not actually memory, but is usually set to -1 to allow VMS to map everything that looks like RAM. Some systems have this set to the actual size of RAM but that's just a problem waiting to happen when the users install more RAM and can't use it. It is possible, and generally a good idea, to allow the total sum of all the virtual memory that all processes can allocate to exceed the total size of the pagefile, simply because much data never gets paged out so there is no need to waste disk space (requires VMS 3.0 or later). No process or combination of processes should be limited to the physical RAM size of the computer in any virtual memory OS. ------------------------------ Date: 7 Jan 2005 13:52:30 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: Basic virtual memory question Message-ID: In article <1105122665.245feb03fda7a96ead9c9055ba54b402@teranews>, JF Mezei writes: > OK, I browsed through the VAX/VMS internals book. But I couldn't find an easy > answer to an age long question I have had about VMS. > > On a conventional MAC, one had a very simple memory management config: You > told the MAC how much virtual memory it should have, and it would create a > page file that big. Then, with each imager file (application), you configured > how much virtual memory it was allowed to take. > > On VMS, the way I understand it, a process can allocate memory until it has > used up all its pagefile quota and its working can't be grown anymore. Is that > correct ? Pretty much. It can also have virtual memory corresponding to image sections (read-only copies of program data backed by the original image file), memory mapped files and global sections. You could have hundreds of user processes sharing access to hundreds of pages of shareable image sections. This would amount to tens of thousands of pages of virtual memory and only a few hundreds of pages of physical memory and no page file at all. > Lets take the example of a *theoretical* all mighty Microvax II with a > whopping 16 megabytes of physical RAM, but with a 100 megabytes page file. > > At the VMS level, are there SYSGEN parameters to tell the OS that it has over > 100 megs of virtual address space ? (100 megs page file + however physical > memory can be used as VIRTUALPAGES). On VAX you used to have VIRTUALPAGECNT, but that was a per-process limit (that affected the size of the portion of the balance set slots allocated for P0 and P1 process page tables). The balance set was, in turn, mapped in system virtual memory (S0). On VAX, total virtual memory was not constrained by the page file. It was constrained by VIRTUALPAGECNT*MAXPROCESSCNT and, to some extent, by sum(process=1 to MAXPROCESSCNT)(PGFLQUOTA(process))) If, at run time, you had all of your processes actually try to use their virtual memory allotment, you could run into what I referred to as a "page file hang" with an empty free page list and bunches of processes waiting in COMO, FPW or RWMPB. Rarely a fun experience. > Or does VMS create a virtual memory page table for each process based on how > much pagfilquo and wsextent the process can potentially have ? My internals knowledge is very dated at this point. The process page table on VAX was sized based on VIRTUALPAGECNT, completely ignoring PGFLQUOTA and WSEXTENT. I believe that the virtual memory situation modern VMS systems under Alpha is even more dynamic. Process page table sizes are not statically knowable at all. > From what I can gather, the SYSGEN parameters seem to split physical memory > between non pageable memory and pageable memory (NPAGEDYN and VIRTUALPAGES), NPAGEDYN controls the size of a particular pool of _dynamically allocatable_ non-paged system memory. $ mcr sysgen SYSGEN> SHOW VIRTUALPAGES %SYSGEN-E-NOPARAM, no such parameter I have always assumed that whatever physical memory is not devoted to something else will be placed on the free list and made available for virtual memory support. There is no need for a SYSGEN parameter to control how many pages are used for this. The system can dynamically allocate pageable system memory, devote it to a loaded object and lock it into physical memory if needed. So can a user process for that matter. > with soem other parameters probably taking up some physical memory apart from > NPAGEDYN and VIRTUALPAGES (such as SPTREQ I think). Parameters control the sizes of data structures in some cases. It is the data structures that occupy physical memory, not the parameters. Not all physical memory is consumed by data structures with sizes controlled by SYSGEN parameters. > Is there a simple list of SYSGEN parameters that, when added up, equal to the > physical memory on that machine ? Not as far as I know. John Briggs ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 15:46:01 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Basic virtual memory question Message-ID: <1105130148.f8b79f6159b319c32dfc5320f50ffd8c@teranews> Bob Koehler wrote: > At the SYSGEN level things are limited by VIRTUALPAGECNT and WSMAX. SYSGEN's help tells me that VirtualPageCnt has been obsolete since version 7.0. What prevents me from giving a 200 meg PGFILQUO to a username and have a process created that then does a MALLOC of 200 megabytes on a 16 meg Microvax II ? > IIRC the process page table is sized at process creation according to > VIRTUALPAGECNT. Ok, so each process has its own page table then ? How does VMS size that page table ? (seems it used to be VIRTUALPAGCNT that answered that question, but is now obsolete). > PAGEDYN and NPAGEDYN limit kernel memory pools, not process memory. Howeber, any physical memory that is alloacted to system structures is memory that cannot be used by processes to map their virtual pages to physical pages, correct ? > No. There is a parameter PHYSICALPAGES which can be set to prevent > VMS from mapping pages that look like RAM but are not actually memory, I thought PHYSICAL PAGES was to simulate a system with less memory that it really has. > No process or combination of processes should be limited to the > physical RAM size of the computer in any virtual memory OS. yes, but what determines the virtual memory limit a process can think it has access to ? If I give it a PAGFILQUO of 200 megs, (and there is 200 megs available in the page file), is there another parameter that woudl prevent the procesxs from using 200 megs ? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 20:53:09 GMT From: Rob Brown Subject: Re: Basic virtual memory question Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Jan 2005, JF Mezei wrote: > What prevents me from giving a 200 meg PGFILQUO to a username and > have a process created that then does a MALLOC of 200 megabytes on a > 16 meg Microvax II ? *I* don't think anything does. Nor can I think of any reason why anything should. My PGFILQUO on this 64Mb Vax 4000-90 is over 500,000 pages. I look forward to learning the real answer. -- Rob Brown b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o m G. Michaels Consulting Ltd. (866)438-2101 (voice) toll free! Edmonton (780)438-9343 (voice) (780)437-3367 (FAX) http://gmcl.com/ ------------------------------ Date: 7 Jan 2005 15:55:36 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Basic virtual memory question Message-ID: In article <1105130148.f8b79f6159b319c32dfc5320f50ffd8c@teranews>, JF Mezei writes: > Bob Koehler wrote: > >> At the SYSGEN level things are limited by VIRTUALPAGECNT and WSMAX. > > SYSGEN's help tells me that VirtualPageCnt has been obsolete since version 7.0. > > What prevents me from giving a 200 meg PGFILQUO to a username and have a > process created that then does a MALLOC of 200 megabytes on a 16 meg Microvax > II ? MALLOC'ed pages are in the working set and therefor limitted by the working set parameters. > > Ok, so each process has its own page table then ? Yes, in the process header in P1 space up to (I think) VMS 7.1. Now I think Alphas (and IA64s) can keep it in S2 space, but it's still a per-process data structure. > How does VMS size that page table ? (seems it used to be VIRTUALPAGCNT that > answered that question, but is now obsolete). Since my internals manual is pre VMS 7.0, I don't know that one. I think since VIRTUALPAGCNT was eliminated there is some capacity to resize the map. I think the map sizes are derived from the working set sizes. >> PAGEDYN and NPAGEDYN limit kernel memory pools, not process memory. > > Howeber, any physical memory that is alloacted to system structures is memory > that cannot be used by processes to map their virtual pages to physical pages, > correct ? Processes do map system structures, they have to since they can call routines in the kernel and those routines must be able to manipulate that data. (A lot of those routines change to privileged mode but very few execute outside of process context, and even then some process is current so the system space map is valid). Actually all processes map system space via a shared map. (The map is multi-level, the lower levels of system space maps only actually exist once). >> No. There is a parameter PHYSICALPAGES which can be set to prevent >> VMS from mapping pages that look like RAM but are not actually memory, > > I thought PHYSICAL PAGES was to simulate a system with less memory that it > really has. That's another valid use. But it used to be used to keep VMS from mapping UNIBUS addresses on VAX-11 series systems which had peripherals that looked like RAM (VMS had to be able to map UNIBUS RAM in order to support VAX 11/730 and 725). I think some Qbus systems had the same issue. Other systems generally had RAM and peripherals on different busses. >> No process or combination of processes should be limited to the >> physical RAM size of the computer in any virtual memory OS. > > yes, but what determines the virtual memory limit a process can think it has > access to ? If I give it a PAGFILQUO of 200 megs, (and there is 200 megs > available in the page file), is there another parameter that woudl prevent the > procesxs from using 200 megs ? You'ld have to give it the required working set quota and make sure WSMAX was at least as big. Then the process could map 200MB even if the pagefile free space was less than 200MB. You can over-commit page files. Just never let the pagefile run out of free space (i.e. actually page out too much). For example, I routinely keep my page files about 25% free and use the negative "reservable" value as an estimate of how much to grow them when they get below 25% free. By comparison, we routinely ran 3MB programs on a 1MB VAX 11/780 and 20MB programs on 4MB VAXen. VMS is capable of running 200MB program on 16MB VAXen (I probably had some like that when I was developing X11 based user interfaces). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 17:51:49 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Basic virtual memory question Message-ID: <1105137689.bf5615984a3cd0a563676c2236dd78d4@teranews> John Laird wrote: >> >SYSGEN's help tells me that VirtualPageCnt has been obsolete since version 7.0. > > You should have read on a bit further, where it says "on Alpha systems". > Since your MVII is very much not an Alpha, it is still relevant. SYSGEN> HELP SYS VIRTUALPAGECNT On VAX systems prior to Verison 7.0, VIRTUALPAGECNT sets the maximum number of virtual pages that can be mapped for any one process. [much stuff] Starting with O___VMS Alpha 7.0, VIRTUALPAGECNT is an obsolete parameter.... ------- Nothing explains what VIRTUALPAGECNT does on VAX systems post 7.0 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 18:03:47 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Basic virtual memory question Message-ID: <1105138402.43854f4997ae3b0878c9fce3c4b2e0e1@teranews> Bob Koehler wrote: > You'ld have to give it the required working set quota and make sure > WSMAX was at least as big. Then the process could map 200MB even if > the pagefile free space was less than 200MB. But isn't WSMAX/WSQUOTA/WSEXTENT a limit of how much virtual memory can be mapped to physical memory at any point in time ? If you malloc a chunk of memory and wrote to it, and then need some other piece, nothing prevents that chunk from being written to the page file to make room for what you now need, right ? > page files. Just never let the pagefile run out of free space Yes, those dreaded one line "page file fragmented" messages on OPA0 that give you a few seconds to start killing processes to free up memory... But an enourmous page file prevents those problems. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 23:33:55 +0000 From: John Laird Subject: Re: Basic virtual memory question Message-ID: On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 17:51:49 -0500, JF Mezei wrote: >John Laird wrote: >>> >SYSGEN's help tells me that VirtualPageCnt has been obsolete since version 7.0. >> >> You should have read on a bit further, where it says "on Alpha systems". >> Since your MVII is very much not an Alpha, it is still relevant. > >SYSGEN> HELP SYS VIRTUALPAGECNT > >On VAX systems prior to Verison 7.0, VIRTUALPAGECNT sets the >maximum number of virtual pages that can be mapped for any one process. > >[much stuff] > >Starting with O___VMS Alpha 7.0, VIRTUALPAGECNT is an obsolete parameter.... > >------- > >Nothing explains what VIRTUALPAGECNT does on VAX systems post 7.0 Nothing much different to what it did pre-7.0 would be my best guess. The documentation you are reading is confusing. On our 7.3-2 systems, it reads: "Starting with OpenVMS Version 7.0, VIRTUALPAGECNT has been an obsolete parameter on Alpha systems." Is that clearer ? -- Remember that you are special, just like everyone else. Mail john rather than nospam... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 23:58:15 GMT From: John Reagan Subject: Re: Basic virtual memory question Message-ID: JF Mezei wrote: > SYSGEN's help tells me that VirtualPageCnt has been obsolete since version 7.0. > > What prevents me from giving a 200 meg PGFILQUO to a username and have a > process created that then does a MALLOC of 200 megabytes on a 16 meg Microvax > II ? Intelligence. :-) As long as you have a large enough page file and a good book to read, you can listen to your system page its brains out. It should work however. -- John Reagan HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leader Hewlett-Packard Company ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 23:59:43 GMT From: John Reagan Subject: Re: Basic virtual memory question Message-ID: JF Mezei wrote: > Bob Koehler wrote: > >> You'ld have to give it the required working set quota and make sure >> WSMAX was at least as big. Then the process could map 200MB even if >> the pagefile free space was less than 200MB. > > > But isn't WSMAX/WSQUOTA/WSEXTENT a limit of how much virtual memory can be > mapped to physical memory at any point in time ? Yes, but that doesn't have anything to do with how much virtual memory you can actually allocate. -- John Reagan HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leader Hewlett-Packard Company ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 23:53:23 GMT From: Beach Runner Subject: Re: Basic virtual memory question Message-ID: The size of page file quota has a limit in physical space. I don't remember the exact size at this second. Virtual page count has been made obsolete. If Working sets grow larger than page file quota, the process will crash. This is common in sorts. JF Mezei wrote: > Bob Koehler wrote: > > >> At the SYSGEN level things are limited by VIRTUALPAGECNT and WSMAX. > > > SYSGEN's help tells me that VirtualPageCnt has been obsolete since version 7.0. > > What prevents me from giving a 200 meg PGFILQUO to a username and have a > process created that then does a MALLOC of 200 megabytes on a 16 meg Microvax > II ? > > >> IIRC the process page table is sized at process creation according to >> VIRTUALPAGECNT. > > > > Ok, so each process has its own page table then ? > > How does VMS size that page table ? (seems it used to be VIRTUALPAGCNT that > answered that question, but is now obsolete). > > >> PAGEDYN and NPAGEDYN limit kernel memory pools, not process memory. > > > Howeber, any physical memory that is alloacted to system structures is memory > that cannot be used by processes to map their virtual pages to physical pages, > correct ? > > >> No. There is a parameter PHYSICALPAGES which can be set to prevent >> VMS from mapping pages that look like RAM but are not actually memory, > > > I thought PHYSICAL PAGES was to simulate a system with less memory that it > really has. > > >> No process or combination of processes should be limited to the >> physical RAM size of the computer in any virtual memory OS. > > > yes, but what determines the virtual memory limit a process can think it has > access to ? If I give it a PAGFILQUO of 200 megs, (and there is 200 megs > available in the page file), is there another parameter that woudl prevent the > procesxs from using 200 megs ? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 00:27:56 GMT From: John Reagan Subject: Re: Basic virtual memory question Message-ID: Beach Runner wrote: > The size of page file quota has a limit in physical space. I don't > remember the exact size at this second. Virtual page count has been > made obsolete. > > If Working sets grow larger than page file quota, the process will crash. > This is common in sorts. > Not working set, virtual memory limit. Your working set quota and page file quota aren't really related. If you exceed your page file quota, I wouldn't say "crash". You might get a PGFILQUO exceeded message or you might just get an ACCVIO when you try to allocate more stack but you don't have enough page file quota to back it up. If you can make a process "crash" (ie, disappear), then you've found a bug that you should report. -- John Reagan HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leader Hewlett-Packard Company ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 20:14:00 -0500 From: "Neil Rieck" Subject: Re: Basic virtual memory question Message-ID: "JF Mezei" wrote in message news:1105122665.245feb03fda7a96ead9c9055ba54b402@teranews... > OK, I browsed through the VAX/VMS internals book. But I couldn't find an > easy > answer to an age long question I have had about VMS. > > On a conventional MAC, one had a very simple memory management config: You > told the MAC how much virtual memory it should have, and it would create a > page file that big. Then, with each imager file (application), you > configured > how much virtual memory it was allowed to take. > > On VMS, the way I understand it, a process can allocate memory until it > has > used up all its pagefile quota and its working can't be grown anymore. Is > that > correct ? > > Lets take the example of a *theoretical* all mighty Microvax II with a > whopping 16 megabytes of physical RAM, but with a 100 megabytes page file. > > At the VMS level, are there SYSGEN parameters to tell the OS that it has > over > 100 megs of virtual address space ? (100 megs page file + however physical > memory can be used as VIRTUALPAGES). > > Or does VMS create a virtual memory page table for each process based on > how > much pagfilquo and wsextent the process can potentially have ? > > > From what I can gather, the SYSGEN parameters seem to split physical > memory > between non pageable memory and pageable memory (NPAGEDYN and > VIRTUALPAGES), > with soem other parameters probably taking up some physical memory apart > from > NPAGEDYN and VIRTUALPAGES (such as SPTREQ I think). > > Is there a simple list of SYSGEN parameters that, when added up, equal to > the > physical memory on that machine ? An overly simple response: 1. IMHO, the two most important sysgen parameters are WSMAX and MAXPROCESSCNT. They (and others) are used by AUTOGEN in setting the size of the PAGEFILE and SWAPFILE. You can set WSDEF and WSQUO to any size you want in SYSUAF but WSMAX places the final upper limit on what any process can ever get. (p.s. In the old VAX-11/750 days AUTOGEN was too liberal in setting values of WSMAX so I would override these values by making entries in MODPARAMS.DAT before invoking AUTOGEN. This was always a good way to squeeze 10 more entry clerks onto our system but wouldn't have worked if these folk were running large apps like compilers) 2. When a process is started, it is initially allowed WSDEF pages and can demand more by faulting up to WSQUO (this amount is guaranteed if AUTOGEN was done properly "and" no one was making manual changes to the SYSGEN params). If the system is lightly loaded a process may be allowed to borrow more pages by faulting up to WSEXTENT. 3. How does OpenVMS processes know when to allow borrowing? Free pages in OpenVMS are maintained in a structure known as the FREELIST. When the system has more than GROWLIM pages, active "faulting" processes (at a rate higher than PFRATH) can acquire more pages up to a maximum of WSEXTENT. On the flip side, when the system gets busy and the FREELIST shrinks lower than FREELIM, the system will start to trim back all processes (extended processes first, then idle and low faulting processes (lower than PFRATL) next. This can continue and may even involving trimming dormant (idle for longer than DORMANTWAIT) processes back to their DEFAULTS. After this the system will resort to swapping out the process entirely.The system will continue this until the FREELIST size = FREEGOAL. $mon sys (to watch the freelist) BTW, GROWLIM and BORROWLIM work together to enable or disable borrowing. The borrow feature is first enabled when the system has more than BORROWLIM pages and is disabled when the system has fewer than GROWLIM (IIRC). Together they provide a form of hysterisis which prevents the system from acting erratically. 4. Program code and read-only information usually resides on the FREELIST while program variables reside on a smaller structure known as the MODIFIED LIST. This so-called dirty page data will need to be written to the PAGEFILE before these pages are given to another process. 5. When a processes needs more pages but is denied, it can get more by giving up some existing pages back to the free list. If it needs the page later and the desired page is on the FREELIST, it can get it back by a process of "soft faulting". However, if the page has been given to someone else, the process will need to "hard fault" the data from disk. 6. Busy systems may want to enable Automatic Working Set (AWS) adjustment in both directions (expansion and contraction). The value of PFRATL has been defaulted to zero for many years now but can be enabled to ensure that more free memory is usually available (at the expense of more faulting). 7. You should really read a tuning-guide before you mess with these parameters. That said, if you must hack then check out the following online help: $mcr sysgen SYSGEN>help sys freelim sys freegoal sys growlim sys borrowlim sys freelim sys awstim sys awsmin sys wsinc sys wsdec sys pfratl sys pfrath That's all for now. Most of this info came from a Raxcom VMS tuning course more than 10 years ago but is still valid. If I've made any mistakes it's because I was drinking a Heineken while typing this. Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html ------------------------------ Date: 07 Jan 2005 20:36:05 -0500 From: Rich Alderson Subject: Re: Basic virtual memory question Message-ID: JF Mezei writes: > What prevents me from giving a 200 meg PGFILQUO to a username and have a > process created that then does a MALLOC of 200 megabytes on a 16 meg Microvax > II ? Only your innate good taste... -- Rich Alderson | /"\ ASCII ribbon | news@alderson.users.panix.com | \ / campaign against | "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime." | x HTML mail and | --Death, of the Endless | / \ postings | ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 22:20:41 -0500 From: Dave Froble Subject: Re: Basic virtual memory question Message-ID: <41DF5189.9060003@tsoft-inc.com> John Reagan wrote: > JF Mezei wrote: > >> SYSGEN's help tells me that VirtualPageCnt has been obsolete since >> version 7.0. >> >> What prevents me from giving a 200 meg PGFILQUO to a username and have a >> process created that then does a MALLOC of 200 megabytes on a 16 meg >> Microvax >> II ? > > > Intelligence. :-) > > As long as you have a large enough page file and a good book to read, > you can listen to your system page its brains out. It should work however. > > Well, it's winter time up North. Maybe JF's looking for a way to get the disk drives to produce a bit more heat. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 00:32:54 -0500 From: "Hein RMS van den Heuvel" Subject: Re: Basic virtual memory question Message-ID: <41df70b2@usenet01.boi.hp.com> "Rich Alderson" wrote in message news:mddhdlsr9bu.fsf@panix5.panix.com... > JF Mezei writes: > > > What prevents me from giving a 200 meg PGFILQUO to a username and have a > > process created that then does a MALLOC of 200 megabytes on a 16 meg Microvax > > II ? > > Only your innate good taste... LOL John Reagan wrote: "Intelligence. :-) As long as you have a large enough page file and a good book to read, you can listen to your system page its brains out. It should work however." LOL But... In the replies I have read on the topic I seem to be missing the distinction between virtual memory address space and instantiated memory. That MALLOC might perform reasonably depending on implemenation details. Now if you had suggest CALLOC, now that would hurt. I mean, it could just be just fine application design. You know, say 200 byte member records for a town band with 100 members stored in a simple array indexed by their 7 digit local phone number. So you are only going to touch 100 pages or so, but you need space for 200MB. Perfectly fine! :-). Ok, I jest some, but the is very powerful to not to have to worry about storing dense data, but to be able to be very sparse when and where appropriate. Hein. ------------------------------ Date: 7 Jan 2005 21:20:07 -0800 From: "Rich Faust" Subject: Re: CSWS 2.0 + MultiNet 5.0 - Problem Displaying Large Images Message-ID: <1105161607.318914.156700@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> I installed TCPIP V5.4-15 on my system and SWS V2.0 displays images of all sizes with no difficulty. The large image files that were giving me problems have fixed length 512 byte records. I didn't change any of my config files before or after installing TCPIP Services for OpenVMS so I can only conclude the problem has something to do with MultiNet V5.0 or how I had it configured. Rich Faust OpenVMS Hobbyist Richmond, TX ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 11:20:20 -0800 From: Ken Fairfield Subject: Re: Help - SYSUAF and $SETUAI on UAI$_USER_DATA field Message-ID: briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: > In article , Lorin Ricker writes: > >>Re: opening SYSUAF in Pascal (or Fortran, etc) -- my utility does not open >>SYSUAF directly at all -- SETUAI doesn't have a single OPEN statement in it; >>open/closing SYSUAF is handled by the $GET/SETUAI interface. My question about >>logicals was "Do these RTLs open by logical name, or by using a full >>path/filespec?" >> >> I suspected that they'd honor the "SYSUAF" logical name, and John's advice to >>"Define your SYSUAF logical and use AUTHORIZE to see if you can read/write it. >>It uses the same interfaces." reminds me that this is true, which is easily >>verified. When flailing, I don't always think to clearly! ;-) > > > Testing reveals that AUTHORIZE does NOT use the same interface > as $GET/SETUAI. > > The AUTHORIZE utility respects process and outer mode logical names. > The $GET/SETUAI routines respect only trustworthy logical names. > > That is to say, AUTHORIZE behaves like a Pascal (or Fortran, etc) program > opening SYSUAF with a default file specification of SYS$DISK:[].DAT > > But $GET/SETUAI behaves like SYS$SYSTEM:LOGINOUT.EXE, opening > SYSUAF with a default file specification of SYS$SYSTEM:.DAT and > specifying the use of trusted logical names. I am a bit amazed at the misinformation being spread here by people I normally consider to be quite experienced and knowlegable... :-( $GETUAIU/$SETUAI _will_ respect Process or other logical names. However, those logicals _must_ be define /EXECUTIVE, that's the key. I won't reproduce here a complete demo, but we have an old-ish program (which happens to be written in Fortran but that's not relevant) which calls $GETUAI to return various items from the SYSUAF & RIGHTSLIST. It happily pulls data from the non-system "master" SYSUAF & RIGHTSLIST if those logicals are defined /EXEC. It fails to do so if the same logicals are define wihtout /EXEC. Regards, Ken -- I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me... Ken Fairfield D1C Automation VMS System Support who: kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 12:06:59 -0800 From: JBloggs@acme.com Subject: Re: Help - SYSUAF and $SETUAI on UAI$_USER_DATA field Message-ID: <5rqtt017qs4ul7bvijebb9q3mdo3p6n83c@4ax.com> On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 21:34:27 -0700, Lorin Ricker wrote: >PROGRAM DESCRIPTION: >I've written a utility, SETUAI.EXE in Pascal v5.8-92 on VMS v7.2-1, >which can fetch (display with an application /SHOW), insert &/or >update (with /ADD="string"), and delete/remove data in the >UAI$_USER_DATA field of a SYSUAF.DAT user/account record, via the >system RTLs $GETUAI and $SETUAI. The basic utility command line >syntax looks like: Somewhat OT, but I'd be interested to hear how many folks here on c.o.v, have run across 3rd party software that makes active use of the UAI$_USER_DATA fields? but namely, which ones? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 01:55:40 -0800 From: "me to you" Subject: Here is $50 for signing up free Message-ID: Hello, I'm trying out a new auto poster, and dont know how to use it very good, so if this end up in the wrong places, please forgive me, and disreguard, sorry for your incovenience, but everyone else, ENJOY!! KEEP READING TO GET YOUR $50.00 NOW!!! This is not spam, it is a legitament way to make money on the net, reading e-mail, and other things as well, plus you get $50.00 dollars for signing up. This is tottaly free, and requires no credit card on out of pocket money. You will get paid for various things on the net, hope you enjoy and find some usefull info here that will help you out. 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If you don't want $50.00, let someone else have it. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 23:54:08 -0500 From: "Hein RMS van den Heuvel" Subject: Re: How to have SEARCH match a "null" line Message-ID: <41df679d@usenet01.boi.hp.com> "Ken Fairfield" wrote in message news:crn3ni$gsu$1@news01.intel.com... > $ SEARCH SYSUAF.LIS str1,str2/Match=NOR/Out=output-file > > This is simplified, and in fact, I manage to also strip off the header line in the process. > However, the record following the original header line is empty. So you do not want the header line, the empty line following it, and a collections of other lines. Right? In pure DCL I woudl solve that with: $ open x sysuaf.lis $ read x xx $ read x xx $ sea x Owner,str2/match=nor $ close x But in reality I would solve it with perl of course: $ perl -ne "next if /^$/ || /Owner/ || /str2/; print" sysuaf.lis -n = force loop through input equal to: OPEN (FILE,stdin); WHILE () { block } CLOSE FILE -e = immediate commands comming up /^$/ = an empty string ( ^ anchors the record start, $ the end, and nothingness in between.) The reason I would choose perl is - the availabilty of regular expression for infinite flexibility in selecting (and in confusing future readers :-) - because I probably needed additional record processing, for example column selections, readily done with perl. hth, Hein. ------------------------------ Date: 7 Jan 2005 13:30:52 -0600 From: kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) Subject: Re: HP/Linux Tivo replacement Message-ID: In article <3f119ada050106103674def2a0@mail.gmail.com>, DeanW writes: > On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 06:35:27 -0500, John Smith wrote: >> http://pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,119173,00.asp >> >> Do you think that with the same amount of man-hours invested in >> customizing Linux for the task, HP could have made VMS do the >> same thing for them? > > Not even close. > a) VMS doesn't run on commodity hardware > b) The device drivers (capture card) don't already exist on VMS The AV321 PCI card that I bought for $40 used has an RCA video input and can record from that source. There are some demo apps that can be used to record and play back video, but you have to have the DECW server in 8bit mode for them to work (at least the ALPHAVCR app, anyway). It's not a tuner, but it will capture video. ------------------------------ Date: 7 Jan 2005 13:34:14 -0600 From: kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) Subject: Re: HP/Linux Tivo replacement Message-ID: <6ZO6gglZKyCE@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article , Steve Lionel writes: > On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 12:43:31 -0500, JF Mezei > wrote: > >>Rela Tivo boxes have been hacked by Linux geeks who were able to add programs >>and features to the standard Tivo software, enabling, for instance FTP service >>so that you could copy moving to/from the Tivo and your PC. > > I know - I've done it to my own TiVos > >>Such hackjs became popular enough that Tivo is now starting to enable those >>features in the unhacked machines. > > I doubt there's a cause-and-effect here. But clearly TiVo saw a demand and > worked up a solution that would not get them sued into oblivion like > SonicBlue. > >>Had Tivo chosen a more secure OS such as VMS for an embedded box, such hackers >>would not likely have been able to penetrate the box which would have remained >>a big black box. > > The security of the OS had nothing to do with the hacks. > > My point was that none of the "DVR on Linux" (or even on Windows) solutions > approaches a TiVo for feature set, ease of use, ease of integration, low cost > and reliability. How about FreeVo, http://freevo.sourceforge.net/about.html ? At first glance, it seems to have most of the features of a basic TiVo setup. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 14:58:48 -0500 From: Steve Lionel Subject: Re: HP/Linux Tivo replacement Message-ID: <7aqtt0tg1ljusne8jseunk8sto9rlml33c@4ax.com> On 7 Jan 2005 13:34:14 -0600, kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) wrote: >> My point was that none of the "DVR on Linux" (or even on Windows) solutions >> approaches a TiVo for feature set, ease of use, ease of integration, low cost >> and reliability. > >How about FreeVo, http://freevo.sourceforge.net/about.html ? At first >glance, it seems to have most of the features of a basic TiVo setup. No name-based recording (Wishlists, Season Passes), no cable box control, no elimination of duplicate episodes, no recognition of timeslot changes, ... It also requires a pretty much dedicated high-end PC and a complex build process. See, this is the problem - people who don't have TiVo think TiVo is just a VCR with a hard disk and an EPG. It is so much more. Steve ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 11:04:52 -0800 From: "Jack Peacock" Subject: Re: Mark Gorham interview in Interex's HP World Magazine Message-ID: "Keith Parris" wrote in message news:b4fDd.5239$1j.632@news.cpqcorp.net... > "Q: Is OpenVMS growing these days? > > OpenVMS has been growing for the last year. We’ve had four quarters of > either single- or double-digit revenue growth. It’s been quite exciting > for us." > This is a very skillful PR answer, one that seemingly answers the question but misdirects in the process. Growth is defined as revenue, not customer base. I would not consider getting more money out of a shrinking customer base as a positive. Exciting, yes, but not the kind of excitement I'd look for. Is the marketing budget for VMS increasing, are more salespeople being trained on VMS? Or is this just the cash cow being milked before it becomes dog food? Just back from China, talked to an outfit there that used to support VMS in process control systems (Basestar). Head guy agreed with me, VMS has no visibility anymore. Allen-Bradley has dropped all HP and Sun support. For process control systems using PLCs it's now a single OS, Windows or nothing. I'd hazard a guess that if there's any growth in that particular VMS sector it's for help in converting from VMS, not to VMS. (Interesting that Sun isn't far behind VMS in the perception of being a legacy, phase it out, system, at least with the people I met.) Jack Peacock ------------------------------ Date: 7 Jan 2005 13:40:23 -0600 From: kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) Subject: RE: Mark Gorham interview in Interex's HP World Magazine Message-ID: In article <2E9EAC858F94A04ABAA9955F81C1B0B9E153FB@hadaltmail.althad.sa.gov.au>, "Barratt, Chris \(FMC\)" writes: > What is the ".NET integration technology" that is being brought to the > OpenVMS platform ? It's the follow on to the Affinity Program called the Antipathy Program. ;^) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 15:52:45 -0500 From: "John Smith" Subject: Re: Mark Gorham interview in Interex's HP World Magazine Message-ID: <0t6dna0K0d4Ia0PcRVn-oQ@igs.net> Jack Peacock wrote: > "Keith Parris" wrote in message > news:b4fDd.5239$1j.632@news.cpqcorp.net... >> "Q: Is OpenVMS growing these days? >> >> OpenVMS has been growing for the last year. We've had four quarters >> of either single- or double-digit revenue growth. It's been quite >> exciting for us." >> > This is a very skillful PR answer, one that seemingly answers the > question but misdirects in the process. Absolutely correct. > Growth is defined as > revenue, not customer base. I would not consider getting more money > out of a shrinking customer base as a positive. Exciting, yes, but > not the kind of excitement I'd look for. More like the bucket shops selling worthless penny stocks whose salepeople rang a cash register each time customer....er..a sucker bought some worthless stock. > Is the marketing budget for > VMS increasing, are more salespeople being trained on VMS? Budget?? What budget? As for salespeople, HP has no control of who Best Buy or OfficeMax hires. > Or is > this just the cash cow being milked before it becomes dog food? Very perceptive. > > Just back from China, talked to an outfit there that used to support > VMS in process control systems (Basestar). Head guy agreed with me, > VMS has no visibility anymore. Allen-Bradley has dropped all HP and > Sun support. For process control systems using PLCs it's now a > single OS, Windows or nothing. Wait until a Bhopal-type disaster occurs on a Windows box. I'd hazard a guess that if there's any > growth in that particular VMS sector it's for help in converting from > VMS, not to VMS. (Interesting that Sun isn't far behind VMS in the > perception of being a legacy, phase it out, system, at least with the > people I met.) Would you like to supersize your Windows or Linux order? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 21:29:48 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: OT: Laptop hard disk upgrade Message-ID: <41DF53AC.E24D3E9C@comcast.net> Folks, I was wondering if someone who's been through this would correspond with me off-line (how to de-mung the reply-to should be obvious, but I'd also recommend using the Comcast address since I get so much spam at Earthlink). I bought this machine last year near this time used from a company out east. It's a ThinkPad T20 and only has a 5GB hard drive. Naturally, I'm looking for bigger without replacing this machine just yet. The "how-to" I'm looking for is, of course, getting this hard disk's contents onto the new device. Any help would be appreciated. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Coming soon: Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 14:50:25 -0800 From: Ken Fairfield Subject: Q: How to have SEARCH match a "null" line Message-ID: I'm taking the output of: $ Mcr Authorize List/Brief and doing a: $ SEARCH SYSUAF.LIS str1,str2/Match=NOR/Out=output-file This is simplified, and in fact, I manage to also strip off the header line in the process. However, the record following the original header line is empty. The above SEARCH command retains it. I've tried adding: " "/Key=(Posi:1,Size:1) which is how I am able to strip the header line (with /Match=NOR). I also tried this variant: ""/Key=(Posi:1,Size:1) which matches _all_ lines _except_ the empty line following the header. So adding a /Match=NOR dumps everything _except_ the empty line. It looks like I need to do two SEARCHs to accomplish what I'm after, or READ the file after the search and write it back out after skipping the empty line. Can anyone think of a combination of qualifiers & paramters to SEARCH that would _select_ the empty line so that adding /Match=NOR would dump it? Thanks, Ken -- I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me... Ken Fairfield D1C Automation VMS System Support who: kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 02:29:06 +0000 (UTC) From: lewis@OMEGA.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis) Subject: Re: Q: How to have SEARCH match a "null" line Message-ID: Ken Fairfield writes in article dated Fri, 07 Jan 2005 14:50:25 -0800: >$ SEARCH SYSUAF.LIS str1,str2/Match=NOR/Out=output-file >It looks like I need to do two SEARCHs to accomplish what I'm >after, or READ the file after the search and write it back out >after skipping the empty line. $ pipe SEARCH SYSUAF.LIS str1,str2/Match=NOR | SEARCH SYS$INPUT: ""/key=(pos:1,siz:1) It's even shorter if you use this symbol: GREP == "SEARCH SYS$INPUT:" --Keith Lewis klewis {at} mitre.org The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 21:07:07 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Q: How to have SEARCH match a "null" line Message-ID: <41DF4E5B.258AC6F4@comcast.net> "Keith A. Lewis" wrote: > > Ken Fairfield writes in article dated Fri, 07 Jan 2005 14:50:25 -0800: > >$ SEARCH SYSUAF.LIS str1,str2/Match=NOR/Out=output-file > > >It looks like I need to do two SEARCHs to accomplish what I'm > >after, or READ the file after the search and write it back out > >after skipping the empty line. > > $ pipe SEARCH SYSUAF.LIS str1,str2/Match=NOR | SEARCH SYS$INPUT: ""/key=(pos:1,siz:1) That would be my suggestion, also. Use SEARCH in a PIPEline. just be careful about placing the filters in the pipe so you get what you want at the output end. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Coming soon: Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 21:22:45 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Samsung! Message-ID: <41DF5205.A8E62AC7@comcast.net> GWDVMS::MOELLER wrote: > > Seen on Korean (english language) TV : > > In Tuesday's new report, they had a VERY LOW KEY ANNOUNCEMENT > of Samsung, the world's leading chipmaker, which mentioned a > company named INTEL. > [Since I happened to look elsewhere, I did not get the full text.] > > Do I remember correctly that these folks are free to build Alphas? I thought that was the deal, yes. I wonder if HP can fall back on Samsung to keep building Alpha CPUs until the Itanic is raised and put to rights... -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Coming soon: Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page ------------------------------ Date: 7 Jan 2005 21:42:43 -0600 From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) Subject: Re: Samsung! Message-ID: In article <41DF5205.A8E62AC7@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: > GWDVMS::MOELLER wrote: >> >> Seen on Korean (english language) TV : >> >> In Tuesday's new report, they had a VERY LOW KEY ANNOUNCEMENT >> of Samsung, the world's leading chipmaker, which mentioned a >> company named INTEL. >> [Since I happened to look elsewhere, I did not get the full text.] >> >> Do I remember correctly that these folks are free to build Alphas? Yes. But here is the low key announcement you are no doubt referring to: http://www.realworldtech.com/forums/index.cfm?action=detail&PostNum=3011&Thread=1&entryID=44535&roomID=11 Topic: Hang together Name: Paul DeMone (pdemone@igs.net) 1/5/05 In an earlier thread I predicted due to ever rising costs in the semi industry smaller players would have to start teaming up in consortiums to stay in the wafer spinning business. It looks like it has started already: "LONDON . George Pataki, the Governer of New York, is expected Wednesday (Jan. 5) to unveil a plan for an IBM-led consortium that includes AMD, Infineon and Sony to invest more than US$2.5 billion in a wafer fab, according to a Reuters report. The report also said that lithography equipment maker ASML Holding NV has agreed to create its first research center outside Europe as part of the project and that IBM had pledged to open up a semiconductor production line at the Albany Nanotech research center. IBM Corp., Sony Corp, Advanced Micro Devices Inc. and Infineon Technologies AG have pledged $1.9 billion to build the core of the investment project . a wafer fab at IBM's existing Fishkill, New York facility, the Reuters report said. Another report, from the Albany Times Union said that IBM would have six partners in the wafer fab project . Sony, Toshiba, Samsung, Infineon, AMD and Chartered" Here's the link: http://www.siliconstrategies.com/article/showArticle.jhtml?articleId=56900573&_requestid=72041 --- As Paul notes: "they'll hang together!" Why did you hear Intel? No doubt something about Intel develops CPUs too, this appears to be an alliance opposing Intel, etc. Rob ------------------------------ Date: 7 Jan 2005 12:58:43 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Simple EDT or TPU init file Message-ID: In article , peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes: > > Or better a "$ DEFINE/SYSTEM EVE$KEYPAD EDT" in SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGICALS.COM Anybody who defines that system wide better be a hobbyist on a single user system. If you try that on one of my systems, you'll soon find out how it feels to be disuser'ed, and loose any privileges you may have been approved for. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 11:34:06 -0800 From: Ken Fairfield Subject: Re: Simple EDT or TPU init file Message-ID: Big John wrote: > Over the holiday period, I was thinking about TPU (well, what else > is there to do?), and I thought about some possible solutions to > your problems.. > > >>First, using SHOW TERMINAL/FULL I find the keypad is usually >>in numeric mode by default to start with. It needs to be in >>application mode before you call SIMPLE or else the keypad >>doesn't work and you can't get out except with a CONTROL-Y. > > > Since we can't 'fix' this (as we don't know how your emulator is > working - clearly it's not a perfect emulation of a VT300), there is > a nice simple workaround for it. And this is to define any '1' key, > the keypad 1, plus any other key that sends '1' to the system, to > all do the same thing that kp1 does. Similarly for the other defined > kp keys, 2, 4, 6 and 8. > > Thus we have 2 define_key commands for each command, e.g. > > define_key ("message(ascii(27)+'[?25h');QUIT (OFF,1)", > kp1, the_key_map); > define_key ("message(ascii(27)+'[?25h');QUIT (OFF,1)", > KEY_NAME ("1"), the_key_map); > > - so that whatever your keypad 1 key sends, it will be interpreted > by the TPU file as you intend. [BIG SNIP!] John, have you confirmed this actually works as expected??? I seem to recall that you can't redefine the "self-inserting" keys, i.e., the typing keys, letters and numbers, etc... On a "real" VT, you couldn't tell the difference because TPU puts the keypad in application mode on entry. However, I'd expect some complaint from the attempt to define_key. Admiting-I-haven't-tried-it-myself, Ken -- I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me... Ken Fairfield D1C Automation VMS System Support who: kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 21:47:48 +0000 (UTC) From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: Simple EDT or TPU init file Message-ID: In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: >In article , peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes: >> >> Or better a "$ DEFINE/SYSTEM EVE$KEYPAD EDT" in SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGICALS.COM > > Anybody who defines that system wide better be a hobbyist on a > single user system. > > If you try that on one of my systems, you'll soon find out how > it feels to be disuser'ed, and loose any privileges you may have > been approved for. How would I need to ? A good VMS manager would have already added this logical way back in the 80ties (with VMS V4 I think)... -- Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER Network and OpenVMS system specialist E-mail peter@langstoeger.at A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 20:24:13 -0500 From: "Neil Rieck" Subject: Re: Simple EDT or TPU init file Message-ID: "JF Mezei" wrote in message news:1105113966.805431f1ffd2055b8d769fa39b395b66@teranews... > Neil Rieck wrote: >> $ cre sys$library EVE$INIT_NEIL.EVE >> set key edt >> Now TPU will come up with most EDT commands in place. > > > In this religious centuries old editor war, impersonating another editor > is > punishable by public lapidation. How dare you pretend to be an EDT when > you're > really a TPU. Sacrilege. :-) > > PS, you can also "set keypad wps" to emulate WPSPLUS. Only god knows what > punishement is suitable when someone tries to emulate ALLIN1's editor with > TPU > :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) Hey, I've committed the EDT keystrokes to memory so long ago that it is almost impossible to learn anything new :-) Seriously, I would say that I do 95% of my editing with $EDIT/EDT and 5% with TPU impersonating EDT. While is it true that many EDT commands are not available (eg. "EXIT file.ext") I sometime need it to search/inspect wide log files (some > 1000 characters). Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html ------------------------------ Date: 7 Jan 2005 19:54:50 -0600 From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) Subject: Sun shocka - take 9 Message-ID: In article , "Jack Peacock" writes: > it's for help in converting from VMS, not to VMS. (Interesting that Sun > isn't far behind VMS in the perception of being a legacy, phase it out, > system, at least with the people I met.) Really? Shocker. News At 11. Sun has been in major decline for 3 years now (1), where have you been? It is easy to move from one Eunuchs to another, it isn't a surprise that Sun is setting (that and Linux/Windows). Here's an analyst's perspective: "This marks the fourth time since 2002 that Sun's stock has seen a one- to three-month return of 30 percent or greater. However, on each of the previous occasions, Sun has declined in the following months, as the company was not able to fulfill investors' heightened expectations," he wrote. Scotty gets cheery, investors get happy, stock runs up, reality sets in. Rather, rinse, repeat! Rob (1) Go ahead - make my day . . . ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 23:29:33 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Sun shocka - take 9 Message-ID: <1105157930.51e316e2181df978f4b4dea0862bf273@teranews> Rob Young wrote: > Sun has been in major decline for 3 years now (1), where have you been? New sales may have been hurt but the .com bomb, but one important metric is installed base. Have there been many migrations of existing systems from Sun to other platforms ? That is the real question. ------------------------------ Date: 7 Jan 2005 13:22:41 -0600 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) Subject: Re: VMS ready laser printer? Message-ID: <0VAuY5S5z1qr@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article , "John Smith" writes: > I have an old Texas Instruments Microlaser LJIII/Postscript printer > connected via a parallel port back through an Emulex terminal server > w/printer port (I think....it's been ages since I actually looked at how > it's cobbled together (maybe it's a serial interface.....). Hmmm, too much stuff here. Want tp be able to use it from VMS, Linux, and Winblows... > Brother makes some good inexpensive laser printers that may do the job for > you. Go to the local Staples and get one....bring it back no questions asked > if it doesn't. Nearest one is over 2 hours away :-( Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org ... One nation under surveillance, divisive, with liberty and justice for none. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 11:54:19 -0800 From: JBloggs@acme.com Subject: Re: VMS ready laser printer? Message-ID: On 6 Jan 2005 13:07:22 -0600, kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) wrote: >I'm looking for an INEXPENSIVE b/w laser printer for connecting to my home >office network. Everything in the mass market stores these days seems to be >PC/USB only unless you buy an adapter. I want something that my VMS systems >can use. Something that understands PCL and maybe even PostScript? Something >with an ethernet port included. > >What's the current equivalent of the old standard Laserjet III / IV with >built in JetDirect? And it doesn't have to be from HP! > >BTW, has VMS integrated HP Laserjet support yet so you don't have to roll >your own forms libraries for "standard" HP printers? What's your budget? I spent some $$$ for a HP4000TN (w/ JetDirect card) some eight years ago. Froogle suggests you might get one nowadays for ~$600-$300+. probably without toner cartridge. Overkill for home use, but it works flawlessly, and I still have yet to replace the toner cartridge. PS support, and two paper trays is also a plus. so far, I haven't needed to add memory, but I don't use PostScript printing heavily ... I concur that'd it be nice to get supported PCL form-libraries, now that VMS is part of HP. I still periodically wrestle with the infamous blank-page-at-beginning-of-print-jobs when tweaking form setups. that said, I ought to look at the PathWorks/AdvServer supplied forms for ideas ... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 21:41:47 +0000 (UTC) From: hamilton@Encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton) Subject: Re: VMS ready laser printer? Message-ID: In article <0VAuY5S5z1qr@eisner.encompasserve.org>, kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) writes: !In article , "John Smith" writes: !> I have an old Texas Instruments Microlaser LJIII/Postscript printer !> connected via a parallel port back through an Emulex terminal server !> w/printer port (I think....it's been ages since I actually looked at how !> it's cobbled together (maybe it's a serial interface.....). ! !Hmmm, too much stuff here. Want tp be able to use it from VMS, Linux, and !Winblows... ! Don't discount this solution out of hand; I know a company that hooked up two old HP LaserJets (without JetDirect cards) in a similar manner, with an Emulex Print Server. The printers were usable from both VMS and Windows in this way. Presumably, this solution would work for any Linux/Unix/BSD distro, as well. I have an old Emulex Print Server here at home, serving up my Epson dot-matrix printer to VMS and Windows. Works fine. !snip! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 02:16:41 +0000 (UTC) From: klewis@OMEGA.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis) Subject: Re: VMS ready laser printer? Message-ID: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) writes in article <0VAuY5S5z1qr@eisner.encompasserve.org> dated 7 Jan 2005 13:22:41 -0600: >Hmmm, too much stuff here. Want tp be able to use it from VMS, Linux, and >Winblows... If you've got Linux in the loop, you can probably buy a USB printer and enable LPR from there. It will save a little cash, and the only drawback is your Linux system has to be running in order to print. My own setup uses a Powermac (OS X) as the print server. Be sure to check linuxprinting.org to help choose an "open" printer. --Keith Lewis klewis {at} mitre.org The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2005.015 ************************